A question about the Law

reply to post by micmerci


Paradise cannot include torture, otherwise it wouldn't be considered paradise.

If both heaven and hell exist within paradise as you say, would you consider Earth to be the place of torture? Hell within heaven so to say.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


If they didn't know the details then how did they have faith in his resurrection?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

They had the same faith as we do today looking back to Him.

No they didn't.
Paul was talking about Abraham, who believed this voice telling him to move out of Ur of the Chaldees.
Abraham responded appropriately by getting up and moving his family to wherever this 'voice of god' was going to show him.
So Paul was talking about another kind of faith, which was obedience to God, outside of the written Law which did not exist then, and was not to exist until Moses wrote it.
So Paul is saying it is possible to be considered righteous without having to abide by the Law of Moses.
Paul was not saying that you could be considered righteous by God while not following the 'law of faith'.

So, this theory of yours that the people in far antiquity believed in Jesus long before he was ever born is not supported by the Bible in general, or Paul in particular.
They obviously believed in something else, as evidenced by their rejection of Jesus when he did come along.

The faithful before Jesus was born knew a Messiah was coming. Jesus held the Jews of His day accountable for not knowing the day of their visitation. And chided the Pharisees for not understanding their scriptures which spoke of Him.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

They didn't know the minute details as we do today. That was explained iny "nitty-gritty details" portion of my reply.

They didn't know it at all.
Even the angels did not know, what Paul called, a mystery.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

If they didn't know the details then how did they have faith in his resurrection?

Why do you keep asking a loaded question? Where did I say they had faith in His resurrection?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

They didn't know the minute details as we do today. That was explained iny "nitty-gritty details" portion of my reply.

They didn't know it at all.
Even the angels did not know, what Paul called, a mystery.

Well, Jesus was pretty rude then for attacking the Pharisees for not knowing who He was then wasn't He? Kinda evil for Him to pronounce spiritual blindness on the Jews for not knowing the "Day of their Visitation" then huh??

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by micmerci

 

Paradise cannot include torture, otherwise it wouldn't be considered paradise.

If both heaven and hell exist within paradise as you say, would you consider Earth to be the place of torture? Hell within heaven so to say.

Just because our current definition of the word paradise conjures up the idea of perfect, heavenly places does not mean that is what the original text was telling us.

I do not say heaven and hell exist within paradise- in fact I didn't once use either of those words in my post concerning paradise. I did not tell the story of Lazarus and the rich man- Jesus did. He described the inhabitants and the environment of paradise and specifically that it was divided by a great chasm between the place of torment and paradise. BTW- I will not be doctrinal on this following point- but I suspect that the story of Lazarus and the rich man was NOT a parable. Jesus did not name characters in all His other parables but he named Lazarus here. Just an interesting fact, I think.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Jesus indeed finished everything that the Father asked of him.

Including:

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" (Matthew 5:17).

He fulfilled the law for us, as being the ultimate sin sacrifice. To deny that is to turn your back on salvation (the gift) and to say that his sacrifice was incomplete.

"After this, Jesus, knowing that all was now finished, said (to fulfill the Scripture), 'I thirst.' A jar full of sour wine stood there, so they put a sponge full of the sour wine on a hyssop branch and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the sour wine, he said, 'It is finished,' and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit." (John 19:28-30,

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by micmerci

 

Paradise cannot include torture, otherwise it wouldn't be considered paradise.

If both heaven and hell exist within paradise as you say, would you consider Earth to be the place of torture? Hell within heaven so to say.

No, both were in the Earth seperated by a great chasm. Remember Jesus's story about Lazarus in Abraham's bosom?

reply to post by NOTurTypical


What did they have faith in that saved them if it wasn't in Jesus' resurrection? What was the point of the Law if it didn't mean anything?

If the prophets knew about his resurrection, wouldn't that mean they screwed everyone else over by giving them a Law that didn't really matter in the end?

reply to post by Siberbat


If he ended the law then why did he say that the law wouldn't end until the Earth disappeared? I'm pretty sure it's still here.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


The point of the law is to show man his sin and his need for a savior.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


If you recall the story from Exodus God wanted a personal relationship with the Hebrews and they rejected that and asked for rules to follow.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


So paradise in inside the Earth? I thought paradise was separate from Earth.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Paradise is currently an uninhabited place in the Earth- yes.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

So paradise in inside the Earth? I thought paradise was separate from Earth.

What did Jesus say in the story about Lazarus? Do you realize Heaven and Abraham's bosom were two different places?

reply to post by micmerci


So if we dig far enough we'll reach paradise? Let's get to digging then!

Seriously though, if paradise is inside the Earth then it must be a pretty hot place.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Abraham's bosom is paradise, paradise is heaven.That's how I've always seen it. What's the difference between the two?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Why would we want to go to a place that is empty? It would be mighty lonely! I will take heaven instead.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Paradise is a place where Jesus went to release the prisoners and bring them to a place called heaven. That is the difference.