The Vanity of Enlightenment

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Find that which never changes and life will be lighter.

And what never changes?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Find that which never changes and life will be lighter.

And what never changes?

It is always the present and you are present 'watching' the thoughts, sensations, colours and sounds arising. Ever present awareness is what you are - constant and stable (never moving, never changing).

Thoughts that appear are the happening but you are what is aware of the happening - whatever is happening - remember, it can only ever happen presently.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Usually, because I'm the one who has done the correcting. And usually because I know the results I want. If the results aren't satisfactory, I correct myself again.

So you'll know you are correct when you see yourself as correct.

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion

So you'll know you are correct when you see yourself as correct.

I'll know I'm correct when the universe around me mirrors my thoughts.

How do you know when you're correct?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity

So you'll know you are correct when you see yourself as correct.

I'll know I'm correct when the universe around me mirrors my thoughts.

It doesn't? That's odd.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
How do you know when you're correct?

I don't. It just happens.

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion

It doesn't? That's odd.

When I see stagnance, when I see two sides clashing instead of working together, when I see judgment instead of comprehension, when I see any of these things, within me or without...I see rejection of the cosmic flow. I know, it sounds woo-woo, but that's the truth. The nature of the universe is motion, by which to learn. Even if you aren't moving forward, you are learning something that can help.

So when my thoughts don't mirror that idea, I figure there's something deep down that's holding me back. And I figure it out, until I find that I am no longer troubled.

I don't. It just happens.

With that kind of answer, I'm surprised you're questioning my methods.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
With that kind of answer, I'm surprised you're questioning my methods.

Do my observations matter?

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion

Do my observations matter?

Everyone's observations matter. I can't imagine being satisfied with just my view on things.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Then I've replied to you perfectly.

This is the expected outcome when someone looking for the question in everything comes into contact with someone looking for the answer in everything.

I learn more about what it is to be French by going to France and learning to speak French than I do from asking French people to describe themselves to me in English.

It doesn't matter what anyone claims, the whole nature of the OP is an egotistical projection in so far as he feels hurt that other people are claiming to posses something that he does not; if they were truly not enlightened, why would anyone care? You would see them for the fool they are and carry on. What bugs people is that they're all enlightened say, half the day, and they know it, but because of the hearts desire towards lies, they restrict themselves from having an understanding, and wish that the inner nature of themselves would go away? This is ludicrous and made me laugh.

I don't doubt that many people claim to be enlightened that are not, but have you considered that this type of response can unmotivate someone who attains realization of enlightened to state his nature? He or she would only be doing it to help other people achieve the same condition, one is motivated by compassion, and having a direct experience of such a thing they would feel motivated to share this with others, in fact, inclined to, as if they had a responsibility, but people that seek truth are in fact very few, so there is much confusion.

An enlightened being feels no qualms about his necessary influence on other people, because he realizes that it is up to everyone to resolve themselves to truth, and live a true life if they are to achieve anything. Plus, truth is everywhere, all the time, it is a matter of seeing things as they are and not following lies. Do you really think an enlightened being is interested in having a following or a title, those things do nothing for him, but does this mean he should lie about his nature, or avoid it upon identifying it? No, but should an enlightened being put forth effort to teach people are truly seeking? Of course.

In this, one realizes that people are not following truth, and in stead, following lies, one cannot reach a state of anything but suffering and confusion. So it is what it is.

reply to post by Kapablanka

It doesn't matter what anyone claims, the whole nature of the OP is an egotistical projection in so far as he feels hurt that other people are claiming to posses something that he does not

How great your enlightened mind must be to know what I'm feeling. Although I should probably let you know, out of concern for our readers, that you're absolutely wrong.

However, I can't even take any offense to your ignorance, as lashing out the thinker and not the thoughts seems to be the modus operandi and the last ditch effort of anyone who cannot answer to their own reason. Rationality is tiresome; might as well shove it aside, sweep it under the carpet, and discredit where we can, in order to forgo the difficult task of thinking and being honest with oneself and each other. It's such a religious motivation—the sort of motivation that condemned thinkers to death once upon a time. I really wouldn't expect anything less.

An enlightened being feels no qualms about his necessary influence on other people, because he realizes that it is up to everyone to resolve themselves to truth, and live a true life if they are to achieve anything. Plus, truth is everywhere, all the time, it is a matter of seeing things as they are and not following lies. Do you really think an enlightened being is interested in having a following or a title, those things do nothing for him, but does this mean he should lie about his nature, or avoid it upon identifying it? No, but should an enlightened being put forth effort to teach people are truly seeking? Of course.

In this, one realizes that people are not following truth, and in stead, following lies, one cannot reach a state of anything but suffering and confusion. So it is what it is.

Everyone has an opinion on what enlightenment is. Yours is no different. That's the truth. That's seeing things the way they are. It is what it is.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


That is true but also false, you're downplaying the conditions of enlightenment, which is understandable but why you are closed off to the idea, which isn't an idea so much as it ifs within you right now, doesn't make sense. What is spoken about in the texts, the nature of it, is consistent, in so far as once you perpetually see to the root of things, the nature of your condition becomes permanent, ins so far as you've realized the true nature of reality, and there is no other thing to disrupt this state, being that you will always return to it, as everyone will eventually, which at its basis is raw awareness free from conditional effects of anything.

You do realize your enlightened say, half the day, don't you? You're not enlightened when your mind is perturbed and you're enduring suffering, so to rid yourself of this annoying you have to follow truth and see things for what they are, only you can determine this. So what was your point again? How do you wish to convince me of something you don't know? That is your error, you are promoting theories. By the way your word are perceived as empty, you seem to be devoid of something, I hope you're ok man, if you're going through something, keep your head up, don't get down on yourself, theres always a brighter day. I might suggest, having troubles with relating to your partner? Always a major issue.

"What Is Enlightenment?" Adyashanti

I've yet to see any reliable answers. Only reliable questions.

The completely reliable comes when there is no question.

I believe vanity, pride, and the ego are dissimilar.

One can be proud of an achievement, yet not be vain about it.

I also believe a healthy ego is one where you can have a belly laugh at your own expense and is a prerequisite for transformative meditative work because a flawed ego will not give up the ego while searching for enlightenment, but a healthy egoed individual will have no qualms about shedding it.

Enlightenment is the egoless state.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Enlightenment is the egoless state.

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edit on 19-2-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Enlightenment is the egoless state.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Enlightenment is the egoless state.

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edit on 19-2-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

So, the thread title should be changed to "Vanity After Returning From the Enlightened State; When The Ego Returns and You Have A Following".

Originally posted by InTheLight

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Enlightenment is the egoless state.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Enlightenment is the egoless state.

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edit on 19-2-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

So, the thread title should be changed to "Vanity After Returning From the Enlightened State; When The Ego Returns and You Have A Following".

To share what is found is not about ego, it is love.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by InTheLight

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Enlightenment is the egoless state.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Enlightenment is the egoless state.

youtu.be...
youtu.be...

edit on 19-2-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

So, the thread title should be changed to "Vanity After Returning From the Enlightened State; When The Ego Returns and You Have A Following".

To share what is found is not about ego, it is love.

So, are you saying that your motive for sharing what you have found is driven by the love of mankind? Well, not according to the OP ... let's go back to the beginning.

Enlightenment in western thought is the romantic idea of full comprehension, or an understanding into the nature and inner-workings of everything that is happening, an idea derived from concepts such as ‘bodhi’ or ‘satori’ found in many eastern philosophies.

But therein lies a paradox, for one who understands everything must also know—and hopefully admit—that no one can truly understand everything. There is no universal text from which we can refer and confirm that “yes, it is true, I understand everything.” The enlightened can only ever make unverifiable claims and self-appointed declarations of their enlightenment where they themselves are judge, jury and executioner. Therefore, there must be a motive and desire behind making these claims and expressing them to others.

Like every label we put upon ourselves, we are making declarations. “I choose this label because it helps to quantify me to others.” Our chosen labels let us be known. This declaration, akin to choosing a certain costume or dress, is fostered in a desire to appear a certain way to others; and the pride and admiration in such a label, the way one desires to appear to so and so, is vanity, pure and simple.