The Vanity of Enlightenment

Originally posted by guanyu
A lofty goal considering the constant assault on our ability to communicate from the top at all times.

Think of all the neologisms of our era, the two most egregious being the redefinition of the word terro rist and the invention of the concept of WMDs. Words nonexistent in colloquial conversation before the advent of neoconservatism.

I share your dream and I recommend you check out Xun Tzu's philosophy on "the rectification of names." Fascinating stuff, the manipulation of language, and oddly enough, jared lee loughner's primary area of interest...

I find it somewhat awe inspiring that we've found ourselves in a place where just to get to "baseline" understanding is a lofty goal.

It's an impossible goal because of course the moment one word has been defused another is ready to take its place. So the only tangible effect is to slowly influence others in ways that they begin to inherently see through all words/names/labels on their own rather than just specific ones while still recognizing there is an underlying "unf" that is consistent regardless of the metaphors used to describe.

Once someone sees that words are literally magic spells, then it is impossible to ever go back.

Speak a magic incantation and *POOF* "terrorists" have been conjured all around us. Phantasms and Ghosts and Spirits oh my! If people "felt" what it was like early in language development when we were much more visually oriented in our thinking... we would understand that there was a time in our history where a skillful word craftsman could *literally* conjure a mental image in a person's head without them understanding the ephemeral nature of it vs what is actually in front of them.

So all the tales of "they cast a curse on me!" become much more tangible and understandable... in the way that the ability to say "TERRORIST" and the nervous reactions now will seem "silly" down the road. Hopefully, haha. Same tricks, different day.

Kind of the whole "Don't think of an elephant" thing which for most people "conjures" an elephant in their mind's eye.

Vanity alert: I find this not being as effective on me anymore... which is both good and bad. Good because it's easier to see through the games being played, bad because for those who the "magic spell" still works on... they truly can't understand why you don't see what they see.

Will eagerly read your references.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
This is the kind of self-honesty that is needed in philosophy, something that I don't see often enough among the poetic platitudes here in the philosophy corner of ATS.

Denial just seems to alert the postman to deliver more of whatever is being denied until it is impossible to deny.

Which makes me chuckle when I think of the tagline here.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
That's the beauty of it in my eyes, we are paradoxically talking about the same things differently. It shows us how much we know, but also how little means we have to express it.

It's part of why you're one of my "favorite" people to "curse". I read the thread title and thought "Oh! This is going to be fun." Once I read the full post I knew I was about to be sucked into a black hole for a while.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
In my own opinion, I think we as a species are the very embodiment of imagination and creation. All of history shows us this. Without our capacity for imagination and creations, all of our works of literature and art, every fantastic monument, every revolutionary movement would not exist. Everything that has made us who we are today, from the invention of the wheel to the equality of man. Like Martin Luther King, it all started with a dream, and those dreams became reality.

Likewise though every pollution, every exploitation, every rape, every murder, every slavery, every animal slaughter factory, would not exist without our imagination.

Without our imagination deer would continue to be deer... lions would continue to be lions... rivers would continue to flow creating environments dotted with ecstatic life.

Who are we today? What are we dreaming about? Where is this dream going? Who is dreaming the dreams we dream?

"I" am la Résistance.

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion


I am what I am, and that's what I am.

I'm Popeye the sailor man

Toot toot.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

I see there are those who like to speak for others. They assume that they know better.
It's so vain.

You have apparently failed to see where that second sentence constitutes as speaking for others. Additionally, it constitutes an assumption on your part. You aren't impressing anyone with your quarter-machine wisdom and fortune cookie one-liners.

I've seen better anecdotes on bathroom stalls.

There are many on ats who tell me what I 'should' write and there are some who tell me not to post at all. My posts seem to frustrate those who do not understand. This will not stop me from writing what I write.
I don't write to impress anyone by the way.

Originally posted by InTheLight

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by InTheLight

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

starting explaining your experience then, details. Give us some of your real life situations which resulted in your beliefs being stripped away. Dont be shy little candle.

I will not waste pearls on swine.

Mathew 7:6
"Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces."

edit on 18-2-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

That quote may be a tad harsh for some on this thread.

I think this one is more befitting the movement of this thread at this particular stage:

You also need to be true to yourself. It is fine to listen to other people's advice, but ultimately, you are the only one who walks in your shoes. Make sure they fit and are comfortable. Listen to your heart, and try not to let the ego take control. Do what makes your heart sing. By doing both, your light will shine. When it shines, it positively affects everyone around you........including yourself.

Thank you for speaking for me.
I wrote the post I wrote and I stand by it.
One day you will understand why I posted it as a reply. It was not for 'some' on this thread - just the one I replied to.

edit on 18-2-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

I was not speaking for you, I was speaking to you and others who start their wise words with a backhanded slap.

edit on 18-2-2013 by InTheLight because: (no reason given)

You might think that 'pearls before swine' was harsh but maybe you have not had the pleasure of interacting with the poster I replied to. As I said before you may understand one day.

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion

Vanity alert: I find this not being as effective on me anymore... which is both good and bad. Good because it's easier to see through the games being played, bad because for those who the "magic spell" still works on... they truly can't understand why you don't see what they see.

Good stuff. Mostly they don't want the spell broken. The illusion is really the delusion, and the individual clings to it. It is easier to hold on to the delusion than it is to face the truth. If you consider how many great artists go mad facing the truth about life, it might be easier to understand.

An enlightened animal is still an animal. Maybe that is easier to see when the animal is a lion. It is easier to forgive a lion for killing in order to survive, because it is a lion. When a human being kills to survive, which we all do, it destroys the illusion, delusion, that we are superior.

reply to post by AfterInfinity

Do you ever slip into the past?
Or are you ever present?

Enlightenment is the egoless state.

youtu.be...
youtu.be...

reply to post by Itisnowagain

You might think that 'pearls before swine' was harsh but maybe you have not had the pleasure of interacting with the poster I replied to. As I said before you may understand one day.

I forgive you for laying the boot in to me.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

You might think that 'pearls before swine' was harsh but maybe you have not had the pleasure of interacting with the poster I replied to. As I said before you may understand one day.

I forgive you for laying the boot in to me.

Playing the victim is a good game.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


reply to post by AthlonSavage


Both of you grow the hell up and get back on topic. You make all of us look stupid with your immature poo-throwing contests. If you want to duke it out over an internet connection, please take it to private messages where the rest of us won't need a bottle of aspirin to deal with your asinine mentalities.

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


This is why I dismiss Nietzsche's philosophy, as well as a few others I've read down the line.

"When a woman has scholarly inclinations, there is usually something wrong with her sexually." "Woman has so much reason for shame; so much pedantry, superficiality, schoolmarmishness, petty presumption, petty licentiousness, and immodesty lies concealed in woman." "Everything about woman has one solution: that is pregnancy."

You can see where a guy like this might have trouble getting a date, much less a wedding band. Indeed, so far as we know, Nietzsche never had a genuine romance. He did manage to get laid but probably wished he hadn't; his mental derangementafter 1889 and his death in 1900 were supposedly caused by an advanced case of syphilis contracted in a brothel. But what the hell. At least he could be philosophical about it.

www.straightdope.com...

reply to post by InTheLight


With an attitude like that....no wonder he had to PAY for it, lol (brothels).
I'm kinda glad he got syphilis....although I think the mental derangement came first.
jacygirl

Originally posted by jacygirl
reply to post by InTheLight

 

With an attitude like that....no wonder he had to PAY for it, lol (brothels).
I'm kinda glad he got syphilis....although I think the mental derangement came first.
jacygirl

I agree absolutely with the mental derangement coming first...the egghead before the turkey.

Do you two throw away everything Jung and Plato attempted to explore and observe?

Sometimes people have to do things differently than everyone else in order to see the rest of us more clearly... but no matter what the observation will still be a reflection of their time.

I prefer to take whatever someone said that has remained true beyond their time and put aside that which doesn't.

Osho discusses the same topic but from a more aware and understanding time/culture thus able to better express the differences observed without falling into a judgement/negative trap. I don't necessarily agree entirely with him (I don't have the experience in the arena he talks about to know either way) but it shows a way of exploring the observable differences.
www.messagefrommasters.com...

Originally posted by jacygirl
With an attitude like that....no wonder he had to PAY for it, lol (brothels).
I'm kinda glad he got syphilis....although I think the mental derangement came first.

Fascinating.

Despite what you may want to believe, not all men "pay for it" because they have to. Some instead prefer that over the alternative and thus choose to.

Nice stone throwing though.

Originally posted by ErgoTheConclusion
Do you two throw away everything Jung and Plato attempted to explore and observe?

Sometimes people have to do things differently than everyone else in order to see the rest of us more clearly... but no matter what the observation will still be a reflection of their time.

I prefer to take whatever someone said that has remained true beyond their time and put aside that which doesn't.

Osho discusses the same topic but from a more aware and understanding time/culture thus able to better express the differences observed without falling into a judgement/negative trap. I don't necessarily agree entirely with him (I don't have the experience in the arena he talks about to know either way) but it shows a way of exploring the observable differences.
www.messagefrommasters.com...

Originally posted by jacygirl
With an attitude like that....no wonder he had to PAY for it, lol (brothels).
I'm kinda glad he got syphilis....although I think the mental derangement came first.

Fascinating.

Despite what you may want to believe, not all men "pay for it" because they have to. Some instead prefer that over the alternative and thus choose to.

Nice stone throwing though.

edit on 19-2-2013 by ErgoTheConclusion because: (no reason given)

Fascinating.
You sound like a man who knows what he is talking about.
jacygirl

Originally posted by jacygirl
Fascinating.
You sound like a man who knows what he is talking about.

Yes, I've lived quite the full life and experienced the full spectrum of perspectives and possibilities to better understand them all.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

How much deeper do you wish to dig? I'm happy to help.

reply to post by ErgoTheConclusion


You are most kind....however, I have had twins.
So according to Nietzshe's philosophy....I am cured. Doubly so.
jacygirl

reply to post by InTheLight

This is why I dismiss Nietzsche's philosophy, as well as a few others I've read down the line.

I hope you would do the same with such philosophies as those spewed by the bible or by feminism. Anything written by one gender about the other is going to be wrong.

What neitzsche wrote about men was far worse than what he wrote about women.