The Vanity of Enlightenment

Yes many people do get caught up in the hole, *i am much smarter* then the average person, when they think they are in *the know*... Like Alex jones who *wakes people up* oppose to people who are not awake.... It is a vanity thing.

what does a fish know about the animals that walk the land? and roam the sky? it can only suppose.

a butterfly may have said to a caterpillar, "i was once like you". but the caterpillar did not believe him. but the caterpillar spun his cocoon and became a butterfly and then understood the truth. he then went to a caterpillar and said, "i was once like you". but he knew the caterpillar wouldnt believe him.

reply to post by My_Reality

I would say the same thing about people that claim they are "saved" or "born again" for example. In short, anyone who believes that the way they live their lives to be the only true and correct path.

I used think the same way about the whole "born again" crowd. And then I seriously undertook a deep and methodical penetration into the things of Christ. Eventually I did get hit with a powerful dose of Grace so HUGE, it melted my ego away. I was literally like a newborn baby, in that I had to relearn how to function in life because the "I' was wiped away from me.

So now I know it's a real phenomenon, albeit a mystical one. As there are plenty of "born again" claimants who never went through the ego death experience.

People of this type exhibit the traits that you described. However, I would not "label" these people enlightened. I would simply assume the person has an overwhelming desire to feel special about themselves.

Sure is stereotypical. That's my whole purpose here, is to reply to this sterotypical group think, and say that its not all the way you take it to be.

I don't believe any "enlightened" person would advertise that fact. I would like to think that a person of that kind of caliber would demonstrate humility. I would like to think that a person of that caliber would have no need to seek out gratification from others - for the sole purpose of self gratification.

This may be so, but perhaps your missing another element in all this. Perhaps the "Enlightened state," itself wants to be known and shared with others.

In closing, I am in agreement with most of what you have proposed. In my humble opinion people that declare themselves "enlightened", in the sense you describe, are anything but. I don't think it is vanity though. More of a feeling of self-importance to cope with life.

sure there may be some like this, but not all are like this. IF this thread is going to stereotype, then we might as well include blacks, hispanics, republicans, southerners, polish folk, and a bunch of others that we can easily slather a bunch of generalities on without anyone saying anything.

Originally posted by starfoxxx
Yes many people do get caught up in the hole, *i am much smarter* then the average person, when they think they are in *the know*... Like Alex jones who *wakes people up* oppose to people who are not awake.... It is a vanity thing.

And yet science tells us there are people that are smarter than others, better looking, taller, sexier, more focused, etc. Everything is relative.

I know quite a few guys who look better then I do, and get tons of girls, and I know people who have more $ in the bank ...but you don't see me making a whole thread about how they think they're so vain because of these things.

This thread deserves to be on the ATS frontpage. I want to hear the opinions of people around ATS who have self-proclaimed Enlightenment.

reply to post by Wang Tang


There are.. a lot..

Then again, IMO, everyone is enlightened and they just havent realized it yet. Seemingly paradoxical when taking my previous reply into account, but not as opposing as one might think.

When nothing is special, everything can be. Or something like that.

Interestingly, I made a thread just like this, which counters this argument.

Titled"
Why do people assume one to be egotistical & pretentious if they've had various spiritual experience?
Thread Here

Consensus on that thread, seems to be the opposite then what's on this thread.

Ats Member "LightsideAssassin" seemed to have nutshelled it best with the following quote:

Well, OP, simply put, those people are butthurt because they feel left out. It never occurs to them that, with proper training and practice, they could have similar experiences. Some of us are more attuned than others. Doesn't make us special, just different. I rarely speak of my experiences except under a screenname, because most people don't know how to deal with it. It's outside their experience, and they feel threatened by it. It's just a recipe for conflict. I've come to realize that, I'm not here to enlighten anyone.

reply to post by dominicus


I dont believe that anyone who has had a "spiritual experience" is innately "holier than thou." But to deny that that attitude happens is delusion. There are plenty who really do feel they are "holier than thou" because of a "spiritual experience." We see it all the time on ATS here.

Even in this thread, you have someone saying that us caterpillars just wouldnt understand what the beautiful butterfly is telling us. You will rarely see or hear such a person attempting to learn, only "teach" (using the term loosely). Many have that singular "special" experience, and that is it. They feel that there is only ONE "metamorphosis" when there are many, none more special than any other. Some say it is even a continuous metamorphosis. A constant growth.

I feel that the continuous moment that is my life leaves me in pure awe. Some experiences may make me think more, or feel more, or see more.. But it ALL takes my breath away in its beauty and tragedy.

reply to post by dominicus


Thanks for chiming in dominicus. I realize this thread is a one-sided polemic, so it's nice to hear a different view.

That's saying something because I have done just about everything this world has to offer. Plenty of gorgeous women, 6 figure bank accounts, worldly success, have hung out with famous folks, traveled and seen large portions of the world, house, cars, clothes, gadgets .....all of it empty when compared to the things that have to do with the fruits along the Spiritual path.

I have to agree with this, but the reasons for taking spiritual path is not in question here. What is in question is the motives behind calling oneself enlightened.

I am also arguing that he who calls himself enlightened is being paradoxical insofar as anyone who knows everything, must surely know that no one can know everything. He can only believe he knows everything, which is an unverifiable leap of faith.

reply to post by dominicus

Well, OP, simply put, those people are butthurt because they feel left out. It never occurs to them that, with proper training and practice, they could have similar experiences. Some of us are more attuned than others. Doesn't make us special, just different. I rarely speak of my experiences except under a screenname, because most people don't know how to deal with it. It's outside their experience, and they feel threatened by it. It's just a recipe for conflict. I've come to realize that, I'm not here to enlighten anyone.

We could weigh opinion against opinion, but that always leads us nowhere.

Speaking of stereotypes, I myself do not feel left out or butt-hurt in any way. It is more a matter of concern. I have experienced many of the things this fellow has experienced, and practiced what he says we don't practice, directly contradicting his opinion and that of the thread you posted.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
I have experienced many of the things this fellow has experienced, and practiced what he says we don't practice, directly contradicting his opinion and that of the thread you posted.

Same here. Though it is pretty common that us caterpillars are assumed to know nothing of flight.

Ive totally fallen off of that damn tree on a daily basis.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope

There is no universal text from which we can refer and confirm that “yes, it is true,

Actually there is, it's called "universal knowledge", do a little research on Albert Einstein and read the last part at this link about "hyper-communication".

undergroundhealthreporter.com...

Originally posted by Wang Tang
This thread deserves to be on the ATS frontpage. I want to hear the opinions of people around ATS who have self-proclaimed Enlightenment.

That would be a laugh! I'm sure they would say it is YOU that is claiming to know what you have never experienced. If you aren't enlightened then you cannot possibly know what it is to be enlightened.

And I'd be like: Whoa!
And they'd be like: Uh-huh.
And I'd be like: Dude!

Originally posted by 0mage
what does a fish know about the animals that walk the land? and roam the sky? it can only suppose.

a butterfly may have said to a caterpillar, "i was once like you". but the caterpillar did not believe him. but the caterpillar spun his cocoon and became a butterfly and then understood the truth. he then went to a caterpillar and said, "i was once like you". but he knew the caterpillar wouldnt believe him.

Namaste

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by dominicus

 

Well, OP, simply put, those people are butthurt because they feel left out. It never occurs to them that, with proper training and practice, they could have similar experiences. Some of us are more attuned than others. Doesn't make us special, just different. I rarely speak of my experiences except under a screenname, because most people don't know how to deal with it. It's outside their experience, and they feel threatened by it. It's just a recipe for conflict. I've come to realize that, I'm not here to enlighten anyone.

We could weigh opinion against opinion, but that always leads us nowhere.

Speaking of stereotypes, I myself do not feel left out or butt-hurt in any way. It is more a matter of concern. I have experienced many of the things this fellow has experienced, and practiced what he says we don't practice, directly contradicting his opinion and that of the thread you posted.

edit on 11-2-2013 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)

Not everyone will have the ability to jump on a dirt bike and ride like Travis Pastrana, some will have some natural talent some will never pick it up, no two humans are the same in any aspect of life or beyond!

Originally posted by 1nf1del
no two humans are the same in any aspect of life or beyond!

Except for the fact that they are both currently human as well as alive, no?

Originally posted by Serdgiam

Originally posted by 1nf1del
no two humans are the same in any aspect of life or beyond!

Except for the fact that they are both currently human as well as alive, no?

edit on 11-2-2013 by Serdgiam because: lil add

Then maybe you can show me an exact clone of you?

Originally posted by 1nf1del


Actually there is, it's called "universal knowledge", do a little research on Albert Einstein and read the last part at this link about "hyper-communication".

undergroundhealthreporter.com...

Nice article, but let's not jump to conclusions. Hyper-communication is still only a theory, and my little research on Albert Einstein says he was not always right.

Originally posted by Wang Tang

Originally posted by 1nf1del


Actually there is, it's called "universal knowledge", do a little research on Albert Einstein and read the last part at this link about "hyper-communication".

undergroundhealthreporter.com...

Nice article, but let's not jump to conclusions. Hyper-communication is still only a theory, and my little research on Albert Einstein says he was not always right.

Jesus Christ, Buddha research any "mystic" or "prophet" you will come up with the same question, where did they get their knowledge?

Originally posted by 1nf1del

Originally posted by Serdgiam

Originally posted by 1nf1del
no two humans are the same in any aspect of life or beyond!

Except for the fact that they are both currently human as well as alive, no?

edit on 11-2-2013 by Serdgiam because: lil add

Then maybe you can show me an exact clone of you?

Did you happen to miss my point? Both have to be clones to be human and alive?

Are you human?
Are you alive?
Do you breath?
Are you communicating through this message board?
Do you read English?
Are you using electronics to access the internet?
Do you eat food?
Does your heart beat?

Me too! Why would clones even enter into it?

Unless... you are my clone!

*cue twilight zone music*

You gotta hand it to unenlightened people. I mean, going through life under the illusion that they are what they think they are... that life is what they think it is. It's tough. It can lead to things like ulcers!

So, to all the unenlightened, I say thanks for agreeing to go through life as if the mask of your persona that you wear day-in-and-day-out is really the real you. It makes being enlightened so much more fun!