question for aussies about guns

Originally posted by AlanQaida
If you walk into any biker club here and ask to buy a gun, you'll most likely just get thrown out, or thrown out with a few bruises.
Unless you know someone well that's in a club you won't get jack..

Most tattoo places? Yeah.. Right.. A lot of tattoo joints are biker owned, or affiliated.

I've had more undercover cops try to sell me glocks than any biker I know lol.

And yeah, if I wanted to get a glock or 2 I could, if I wanted a semi auto rifle I could also. But I have no need for such things, and people are so heavily monitored these days it's not worth it.

And ammo? It's not that hard to get a hold of, as most guns and ammo are stolen from security companies.

I prefer my legally owned and licenced Remington hunting rifle

100%


I worked at an Adult Book Store about 5 years ago, and this druggie looking guy walked in and said he wanted to sell some pistols.


I asked him what type.


He said they were stolen cop pistols.




I told him sure, I'll buy one off you, but only if you're a cop.





He left and told me not to be a smart ass.




Cops will try and bust people who work in shady areas, but yeah, cops and crooks don't want civilians armed.

reply to post by Pilgrum


OMG they outlawed half my childhood. Yeah I think they went overboard banning things. I would probably do a prison stent for having potato cannon. My father was teaching me explosives when I was 13 he was SF at the time I had a slightly different childhood from some but everyone had a BB gun, slingshot, either a bow or cross bow and a few of us had blow guns. I remember saving up and buying a fully auto BB gun that shot like 1500 BB a minute. But yeah I would have had a hard time growing up there.

reply to post by pheonix358


Dang, you have to have a license to buy ammo even if you dont own a gun? I can buy my dad ammo as a christmas present w/o a license here in VA.

Originally posted by wewillnotcomply666
Guns are pretty easy to get in Australia . Walk down to any biker clubhouse or most tattoo places with a few bucks and youl leave with what you want lol.

Total BS

If your a bikie sure you can most likely get one but the average citizen walks into a bikie club and asks for a gun....Youd be lucky to leave with a black eye.

Are you even Australian?

reply to post by Grimpachi


You're right about the consequences of being caught with a 'potato cannon' but maybe the reasoning is that something harder than a spud could be used as a projectile in one of those. In my childhood every 2nd kid in town had at least 1 air rifle and gun regulations were similar to what the US has now IE if you wanted a firearm (excluding pistols which always required a permit/license) you just went to the local gun shop and purchased one no questions asked. Pre '1993 I got my ammo at K-Mart and shotgun shells by the case at a marine shop (seemed odd to me but they had the best bulk price in town).

Fireworks were legal and some nasty contraptions like 'bunger guns' were commonplace (fun but potentially deadly). The most dangerous thing kids can get hold of legally these days is a cricket bat or similar but they're innovative in ways of hurting themselves as always. The regulations now prohibit the sale of knives to persons under 18yo (proof of age/ID must be provided) with onus being on the seller.

reply to post by Pilgrum


If you are saying fireworks are banned there as well your country has officially outlawed my childhood. There is such a thing as taking things too far. You better watch out because they are going to be coming for your forks and knives next pretty soon your country will only trust the populace with plastic cutlery because you can’t be trusted with it.

It sounds like a nightmare to me. So how did they take all your guns if you could at one time buy rifles easily? I know if they tried that here we would hide them. I currently reload my own ammo but it sounds like you can’t even buy gunpowder there anymore. If they tried that here it would spark off a war with the government and that is the honest truth.

Originally posted by Pilgrum
reply to post by Grimpachi

 

You can have an air rifle (being a single shot weapon) but it's subject to the same regulations as rifles IE member of a registered shooting club / farmer etc

thats incorrect.

you do not have to be a member of a club to hold a rifle liscence. being a member of a club is only mandatory in the case of holding a pistol liscence.

How easy is it to get a gun liscence in Australia? id say prettyb darn easy IMO.

You sit a test that goes for two hours and is multiple choice. pretty straight forward and common sense questions.

once passed you take that certificate and the rifle liscence application and go to the local DSE offices, which stands for the Department of Sustainability and Environment. Hand over $20 and get a permit to shoot feral pests on crown land.

Take all the aquired paperwork and go to the post office and pay for your application, your 100 points of ID must be shown, take a passport photo for your liscence and send everything in to the Firearms Liscencing Department.

You might get your liscence back annywhere between 2 to 5 months.

Then to purchase your 1st rifle you get a 28 day cooling off period, none needed for any purchases after that.

Whyy would you need a rifle in suburbia here in OZ?

If you joint the SSAA - Sporting Shooters Association of Australia, not only do you get insurance cover for any firearms related mishaps or incidents that may resullt in court cases but if you complete their Pest Management Courses you will go on a list where you get called out to take care of pest eradication programs on the outskirts of suburbia.

Ive been involved in many kangaroo culling programs just a couple kilometres past the urban fringes aswell as wild goat eradication programs.

There are many fox shoots that go own aswell as rabbit eradication programs.

regarding the aquisition of illegal firearms, if you know someone in the underworld they are obtainable, but why the average person would risk that is beyond me.

our rules are fair and protect the sport of hunting and target shooting,

if your arguing the fact that you need an AR15 to keep the government in check via the second ammendment, you'd know that a successful sniper with a 10 shoot mag can demoralise a much larger number of opponents if he is skilled enough to remain hidden,,,,,,,,no need for AR15's as nice as they may be.

in a SHTF scenario, your not gonna give a damn about loosing your firearms liscence anyway are you?

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by Pilgrum

 

If you are saying fireworks are banned there as well your country has officially outlawed my childhood.

There is such a thing as taking things too far. You better watch out because they are going to be coming for your forks and knives next pretty soon your country will only trust the populace with plastic cutlery because you can’t be trusted with it.

It sounds like a nightmare to me. So how did they take all your guns if you could at one time buy rifles easily? I know if they tried that here we would hide them. I currently reload my own ammo but it sounds like you can’t even buy gunpowder there anymore. If they tried that here it would spark off a war with the government and that is the honest truth.

The diffence in OZ is no one wants a gun, no one feels like they are missing out because firearms are very hard to get.

Its just not part of our culture and 99.9% of us are glad for it.

I know of a few people who want guns or said they did at some time or another in the past and they to put it mildly arent really right in the head.

If you tell people you want a gun its like telling them you like to stamp on puppies, is just considered sick.

Farmers are the obvious exception, no one thinks twice or bats an eyelid about farmers with guns

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


Sorry it sounds oppressive and insulting to me. The culture here is completely different. To me it is ridicules for people to be afraid of a tool. Reminds me of overbearing and overprotective mothers.

I am sure you still have murders happening there I know you do I watched a show on it so the problem still remains. However your country is secluded so you don’t have problems with drug cartels flowing over boarders like us.

I live in Sydney, Australia & have relatives that own a farm out in the country. When they applied for a gun licence they had to wait 12 months to hear of approval. Also the gun must be locked unloaded in a special gun safe that is bolted to a concrete floor. The ammo must be housed in a separate gun safe in another part of the house. So you need a back up plan if anything should happen.

We are thinking of buying a farm but as my husband works odd hours & goes away for business I want to be able to protect my children if anything ever arises but nope can't have a gun. I can buy one on the black market for a few thousand dollars but I won't know if has been used in any other shootings.

My back up plan is SAS tactical training, I need to be a ninja!

Guns are like money, very very easy to get whether you have gun laws or not. Just read our newspapers every night some OLMC are trying to kill each other in drive by shootings & there's several a night.

What I don't get is America makes all their money selling arms to other nations hence the US Government pouring billions into black op projects but yet they don't want the citizens to have guns? This sounds every strange to me.

Also the citizens of America are right the buy back wont work as the honest people will be the only ones cashing in their guns but the criminals will hide theirs. Could this be the ploy to the GFC? Get the market to tank to the point where people will be willing to swap their guns for money to but food on their families plate. Makes me wonder.

reply to post by Oneggod


It wouldn’t work. My rifle's puts more food on the table than they could ever pay me for them.

I wouldn't have a clue where to even start looking for an illegal firearm. First port of call I guess would be the dodgiest looking tattoo parlour I can find, but even then I highly doubt the tattooist would just openly admit he can get his hands on illegal weapons to a stranger that walked through his front door...

The whole point of controlling firearms isn't so much to stop career criminals (who will ALWAYS be able to get their hands on whatever goods they damned well please), but more to prevent "crime of passion" murders...the ones where daddy looses his job and goes home to off himself ensuring his family come with, or where a disgruntled employee goes to his car at lunchtime, grabs the glock he always keeps in his glovebox and proceeds to obliterate his co-workers.

I think the whole gun control argument is so heated because there's actually a discrepancy between the root cause of the mass shootings in the US, vs. the shootings in other countries such as Australia. Here shootings are either a) gang related (illegal weapons that can never be 100% controlled), or b) crimes of passion.

Gang shootings will never be resolved through laws because the law is only effective to those they obey it...

The crimes of passion problem can be partly resolved by making it harder to legally obtain access to firearms. The number of people that decide to shoot their boss and actually follow through with it are greatly reduced when the procedures to get a legal firearm are really really strict and when you have to drive home and unlock your safe that's bolted to the floor just to get at your gun.

In America, shootings seems to be more of the "he was just plain batsh* crazy" variety. Clearly there is an underlying mental health/social issue in the US and THAT is what needs to be addressed.

That said, I'm still 110% behind tighter gun control in the US. There's a number of stories of police shootings in the US where the policemen trained in the use of firearms and handling stressful situations unload 20+ bullets into a single perp, hitting him with maybe 30% of the shots fired and the rest ending up in walls/footpaths/trees etc. I've seen first-hand how unstable/irrational/downright dangerous most people become when put under stressful situations and I most certainly would not like to be in the middle of a shopping centre when a shooter opens up and every Tom, Dick and Harry in the courtyard has a handgun and a sudden urge to "spray n pray" or be a hero.

I had a shooter's permit from when I lived in the bush but moved back to the city before the changed regulations in '96 and it would have been just a formality to get a license for my legal weapons back then. Being busy with work & family meant those weapons were just gathering dust due to no time to drive to a range and I couldn't justify the expense of a compliant storage facility so I simply handed them in which was like pulling teeth back then but I really didn't need to have deadly weapons and still don't. Wasn't comfortable having them in the house with kids around even though I had the rifles, bolts & ammo all locked up in different places. Primers, powder, cases, loaders etc are all still available but you'd need a license to buy them and we still have black powder enthusiasts (but licensed).

You can think of a gun as a tool but a tool for what is the question. It's not like you can build a house or start a garden with it as its intended purpose is killing from a safe distance. Hunting game is a legitimate reason to own a firearm as long as you have the acceptable venue to do so (safe distance from the general population).

reply to post by Grimpachi


Fireworks were ultimately banned for public sale because innovative sociopaths were building (and using) pipebombs by cracking open 'legal' fireworks but the bans were progressive over the decades. Powerful skyrockets were first to go because of some nasty incidents when they were launched horizontally. Explosive (large) fireworks were next mainly because of misuse (blowing up random letterboxes was a bit of a national sport) and their potential use in improvised projectile weapons and bombs. That left us with just the 'decorative display' types but some found ways of misusing them also so no more publicly available fireworks for everyone now.

Might have to grow a beard in case my razor gets outlawed

reply to post by Pilgrum


For me I have put down more than a couple wild dogs that is originally why a got a CCW permits. I came home one day and the neighbor’s kid was being attacked and his father was beating the dog but it wouldn’t let go I had to run in the house and get my pistol. Since then I have had two instances where I have had to shoot a person both were tough situations that I will never forget. Once a convenience store was being robbed and I simply walked in to buy a pack of smokes and the other was a nightmare situation where my wife was attacked by a rapist right in front of the house. Since then she has a CCW and carries a bigger pistol than me.

They saying goes I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Anyway my wife and I are both ex-military and we have seen our fair share of combat in the past, our hopes are we do not ever need gun but it’s a crazy world and our past experiences have shown us you can’t depend on cops they are a reactionary force at best. I do have fun target shooting and hunt to save money on food. Mostly wild boars which are plentiful here. I have had a boar charge me which I consider them more dangerous than dogs other than that I can’t stand snakes which is another plentiful thing here they are one of the few things that scare me so its shoot on sight.

I can’t even say how many guns I have at this point between what has been handed down and what I have bought from private owners but I can say not one of them is registered. I think 2 of them I have never even fired but I keep them locked up in two safes I have. I was given my first rifle when I was 13 so I have been around them most of my life some are like air looms passed down from my great grandfather my grandfather and father. Some are ones brought back from the wars they fought in. I couldn’t think of giving them up they are part of our history. It’s a different culture overall I guess.

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

 

Sorry it sounds oppressive and insulting to me. The culture here is completely different. To me it is ridicules for people to be afraid of a tool. Reminds me of overbearing and overprotective mothers.

I am sure you still have murders happening there I know you do I watched a show on it so the problem still remains. However your country is secluded so you don’t have problems with drug cartels flowing over boarders like us.

Were not afraid of guns as they are not an issue, we dont like guns because they are pointless unless you live on a farm or unless you plan on killing people. You say our laws remind you of an overbearing mother, American gun laws remind us of alcoholic parents who dont give a toss whet their children get up to.

Everywhere has murder but we dont have 80+ a week, even after you account for OZ being 14 times smaller in population we dont have as many.

How many of you have used your guns on cartel members? to me it just sounds like your using fear to justify your weapons. Whichever way you look at it unless the gun is for hunting food or pests you want one because you are scared that if you dont have one something bad will happen.

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff

How many of you have used your guns on cartel members?

It happens daily in Texas you should know that it is reported daily. Honestly a simple google search will give you thousands of hits. I don't think you understand the situation near the boarder. Different areas have different problems. From what I understand you still have drivebys in your country. Pot-Kettle.

Its very easy to get guns here, just not semi-automatics.. I could go for a 10 minute walk where I am and have an unregistered hand gun for $100 in no time.

As for the person who thinks you can stroll into a bikie clubhouse and will simply walk out with a weapon, your dreaming. Things don't work like that.

A brief Google search came up with: Estimated Number of Illicit Firearms
Unlawfully held guns cannot be counted, but in Australia there are estimated to be 550,0003 to 6 million8

It would appear that those who have illicit guns in Australia are not making it known to the counters...

Something our Island dwelling brothers and sisters might consider....American has Canada to the North and starting on our southern border we have several lawless Narco states.

The U.S. has farmers, DEA, ICE, and the average Jane and John Doe type people who are murdered due to being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Not that often, any more, because of the stepped up patroling and armed citizens. But many border states still get the stray bullet that hits our side from the latest turf battle gun fight in the South. That does not bother me nearly as much as some stateside news of police, border patrol, Mayors being busted for assisting some cartel with deliveries; corruption absolutely corrupts especially with the money involved... Wish it were not so, but that is the reality of the situation. They have different problems in N.Y. and other major cities ( drug and other issues, related?) therefore one size or law does not work for everyone even though there are many who believe it should.

West Texas, last year there was some property, off the grid solar home with 165 acrers for sale at a rediculos low price...The owner could not stay there, dogs shot, place broken into, stuff stolen when he and the wife were at work during the day; the nights were dark and scary especially after the dogs were shot. Police....no help other than the paperwork for the after action report.

I feel so sorry for the Mexicans. They can not protect themselves (serious gun ban plus many are poor; yet many upper income owners carry a pistol regardless of the laws (they pay the local military commander or have connections etc etc)........ yet the poor hard working are at the mercy of the bad guys, corrupt police, military, what have you. One cartell told a 70 something year old guy (retired military) they wanted his farm and he had 24 hours to move out...he did not move and of course they killed him....surprised they gave him the 24 hours..That was a very popular thing to do a couple of years ago...Now something is going on in Tampico ( far from a U.S. border) for we are getting (the lucky ones with a passport) coming through wanting to buy a place to live on the U.S. side...usually cash buyers; these are not your normal Taco stand owners but are Doctors and the elete of their society....money/education works there just like here. ..

I guess we could use the Marines and have them move south until they could secure a real border ( probably around the Panama Canel?) but that would REALLY piss allot of people off.

There are no easy answers to any of this stuff and many feel strongly they have the answer for everone else...But you really do not know until you have walked through life in their shoes.

P.S. I have many friends who go about their lives and have weapon permits that have never fired a shot in anger; some are actually old. My father used a shot gun to stop a guy from entering his house after the thug had busted the door in....Dad was 68 when that happened..but other than that most go about their life free and responsible for their own safety just like anyone else. The statistics from the FBI says and has been posted here at ATS before that there are between 750,000 and up to 2.5 million times a year a conceiled carry permit holder stops some Bad Guy from from doing bad guy things...You only see the report burried someplace in your local paper and very seldom on MSN...Agenda? Not news worthy? Naw not important except to the people involved.

Originally posted by 727Sky
A brief Google search came up with: Estimated Number of Illicit Firearms
Unlawfully held guns cannot be counted, but in Australia there are estimated to be 550,0003 to 6 million8

Um, where the hell did you get THAT number from??

ACC Website (Australian Crime Commission)

The Australian Crime Commission (ACC) conservatively estimates there are more than 250 000 long-arms and 10 000 handguns in the illicit firearm market.

That's a little bit more realistic, mate.