obtaining a weapon in the mecca of gun control

You think that a wall as solid as the earth separates civilization from barbarism. I tell you the division is a thread, a sheet of glass. A touch here, a push there, and you bring back the reign of Saturn.
(John Buchan)

I opened with this delightful quote to sum up my way of viewing our civilization, so it becomes easier to explain where i am at.
If there is one thing(besides greater fiscal stability) I envy the states of, it is relatively loose gun laws. you pass certain stuff, and you can actually buy firearms. Even if you dont, the black market can provide.
Here(i really dont wish to tell exactly where) it is close to impossible to get one. The price you pay for all the permits and stuff equals about the price of an apartment, and let me tell, there arent enough jobs, most of them pay well below the living minimum.

I am not the doomy gloomy type of a man(well, I am by average standards, but here, in this site, I dont stand out at all)
I like to consider myself more of a survival centricist(if that is a thing)

It was four years ago. Daylight, well populated park in the middle of the city. End of summer. Me mum and me were walking the dog, when suddenly, two rather big men(one very tall, and a very muscular one) started shouting and cursing at us. I have a very short fuse(when facing violence), but I realized that this was a situation where aggression as a response was the wrong decision, so we started walking faster, you know, to leave.
These two men started running, and my mother is not such a fast one, and I did not want to leave her there. We reached the end of the park, and they jumped at us.
The taller guy punched mother in the stomach. That was about the moment when I lost it.
See, the relationship between her and me is very strained, but I generally cant stand to see a woman being hurt, and besides, she is my mother. So I smacked him in the head.
The muscular one started screaming things like *do you want an A-bomb you communist piece of #*(I was wearing a black beret) and kicked me sideways. I tried defending with my arm, but the guy obviously had a military or police training(later I found out he was a professional kickboxer). Nothing broke, but I was just about finished(couldnt really stand straight anymore)
While they were busy with me, mother pulled out her cell, and started calling the police, but they saw it, and kicked the phone out of her hands.
I dont really know why, but after then, they started running away from us(Judging from their actions, I suspect they were high on some uppers)

I went after the phone(after screaming my head off at them) put it back together(it was scratched, and the front came off, but it was in working condition) I called the police, said they were on the way.

It took approx. 40 minutes for them to get there.
Why is that unusual you ask?
The local police outpost(not the main department, but a smaller one on this side of the river) was about 200 metres away.

There were around about 50 people who saw us, many of them runners(it was a park afterall) and people comparable to the size of them thugs.

There were 50 men and women who saw a 45 year old woman and a 15 year old boy being beaten by two strong dudes well in their primes, and none of them came to help, or call the police, or threaten to call the police, or chase them off with their fingers covered in buggers.
The police, well I have already said, they were so late, if it was a date with a supermodell, I would have left.

That was the day I realized there is none but myself able and willing to defend me.
I have 2 years of judo, 4 years of kickboxing, a year of boxing, and 6 years of boyscouts(5 years of dance, but that is well beside the point) but when facing this kind of a threat, all of these activities were kind of useless. I also realized that the stonewall I thought was separating us from barbarism was thinner than I could ever have guessed before that.

I finally understood what my father(left when I was a little boy) said.
The most important things in life are being able to survive in the wilderness, and possessing and knowing to operate firearms.

I know how to survive. I had actual training(i dont know about you, but here, boyscouts are a rather serious bunch) and I have read a lot of field manuals and other various survival training books.
Plus when I was littler, my father taught me how to use and maintain guns, knives, and other weapons.

So I think this will mostly suffice.

How is this connected to firearms? it is partly connected to fireams.
Say the government collapsed, #e hit the fan, or even armed burglars broke into our home.

The police is useless, deadbolt locks are only good as long as they are out of the house.
Many things can happen, and as usual, I wish to get a decent firearm to even out the balance in protecting my life and those I love and care about.

My problem is this.

In this place, firearms regulation kind of started when the nazis occupied the country. The reds picked up where the nazis left, and our kind government only made things much stricter.

I am low low middle class, and I cant even afford my own place, so legally obtaining firearms is out of the question.
I have knives, shortswords, slingshots, a baseball bat, and that is just about it, but in a survival scenario, or any other kind which involves the other side having any kind of ranged weaponry on their side, will have a very very bad outcome.

I could go blackmarket, but I dont want to deal with the kind of crowd which runs guns, plus I dont really have any connections to them.
Most people here think very caste wise, and living this meager is very frowned upon, so I dont really know anyone who could help me. Plus I think I have massive trust issues.

I dont have a clue at all on how to resolve my situation, so first, I started equipping myself on all fronts, then collecting even more information, generally delaying the realization that the only thing I can improve my chances with, is a firearm.

I tried to look up on forging the parts, but I am no mechanic, plus I more or less fear of the lawwise outcome if the authorities find it out.

I even tried creating a crossbow, but no junkyarder, mechanic, or any other kind of a person could get me a leaf spring, and without a prod, there is no crossbow.

bows are out of the question, they are regulated as hell, and cost an arm and a leg.
The government does very bad things(like spending the money destined to go to supporting poorer people who cant afford college with money, to build a luxury golf course) so if the population would be armed, their heads would be on neat sticks by now, so I am guessing this is the reason why getting any kind of weaponry is so hard. Like carrying knives longer than 8 cms is illegal.

I dont ask for help, only tips on how and what to do. what would you do, what would you recommend.

Thanks for reading. Sorry for the wall of text, but these things had to come out. They were boiling in me for almost five years.

P.s. I dont plan on hurting anybody. ever. I dont wish to use my(future) gun, and I hope I never will have to, but if the situation arose, I dont want to be empty handed either.

'Many clever men like you have trusted to civilization. Many clever Babylonians, many clever Egyptians, many clever men at the end of Rome. Can you tell me, in a world that is flagrant with the failures of civilisation, what there is particularly immortal about yours?'

I wouldny make weapons because it may be illegal. And dangerous.

reply to post by spangledbanner


I realized, I know. It more of a rolled through my mind for a brief period, never really seriously considered.
and thanks, I love the simpsons. mostly the implications, and the subtle references. so much humour on so many levels.

learn to use the greatest asset you have - your mind .... it will serve you far better than any weapon and keep you from situatins where you would need a weapon ... any idiot can ( and many do ) pull a trigger ... takes far more to understand and know the appropriate times where lethal force is the only option - not as often as people think its never good to take a life and never justified... it will stay with you forever... ...

Frankly, I think your best bet is to continue your martial arts training to become the very best. The sanctions that would pile onto you if you found a firearm would be immense and really not worth it in your situation. Good luck.

reply to post by Expat888


You certainly have a point. Mind over matter.
But in those dire situations, a weapon would serve the purpose of protecting my life.
The last thing I wish is to take a life, as I hold it more precious than anything else.
But sometimes, at gunpoint, with unreasonable people...you know, I just want to tip the balance towards my end.
Killing a man is the absolute last resort, but I want to prepare for anything, even the last resort. I would do anything to stay alive, and if that means destroying another(after exhausting other options) I want to have the best chances.

Plus if a certain power decides that my existence is counterproductive towards their goals, and decides to act upon this, I dont want to go out without putting up a fight.

If you want to learn to make a decent weapon for very cheap, I recommend going to Youtube and checking out the Backyard Bowyer. He teaches how to make bows out of PVC pipe. I know it's not readily available in some places, but I do know you can find it online for a decent price, from what I've heard.

He even has a video on how to make a crossbow with a PVC prod. And making arrows for the bow and bolts for the crossbow would be even easier, and very cheap as well. I have made a couple of PVC bows and they are awesome.

reply to post by schuyler


luckily, i was a frequent target for bullies in primary school. At avoiding conflict, I am far above average. And I am faster than strong, but my advantage is enduring pain.

what I am concerned about really is the absolute worst. facing disadvantages my punching skills cant help. that is when guns come into picture. Still, after considering the risks, I wish to be able to defend myself. Even more after realizing the men of law cant and will not help. To them it is easier, less messy, and less paperwork to clean up a crime scene than apprehending criminals.
Plus jobs are being axed at a rate too scary to think about. If even ten percent of these people turn to crime, it is better to be safe from them than from those who are supposed to fight them.

People are starving, and if anyone, it is me who knows what a desperate man can do(behavioural psychology is one of my hobbies)

reply to post by Narcissous


The price you pay for all the permits and stuff equals about the price of an apartment.
Without all the permits if you are lucky to find a gun & stash it.
You will be in deep crap if you us it.
My mom allways said "Walk tall & carry a big stick"

reply to post by jeramie


So far, I think this is the best answer. I mean it is nice to tell me not to do it, or to consider ways to preserve others life, or to prepare in close combat, but I really have done that(and still doing)
a PVC bow. I can imagine that being good. silent, powerful, good for hunting, no laws and restrictions(but obviously, about that, I dont really care that much anymore)

This was the kind of a reply I was looking for. Thanks. I will weigh others future replies, but so far, this is good.

Thank you.

reply to post by madenusa


Lucky for me, I only plan on using it when I am already in deep crap.
I am not the kind of guy who wishes he could resolve every situation with pieces of metals travelling at 700 mph.
But I am also not the kind of guy who would let a bunch of thugs sack his house rape the woman and possibly killing them, because of fearing the legal repercussions.
I would keep the gun and the ammo at different locations, locked away. wouldnt want any poor fellow hurt themselves. I know safety well. The swiss way.

Originally posted by Narcissous
reply to post by madenusa

 

Lucky for me, I only plan on using it when I am already in deep crap.
I am not the kind of guy who wishes he could resolve every situation with pieces of metals travelling at 700 mph.
But I am also not the kind of guy who would let a bunch of thugs sack his house rape the woman and possibly killing them, because of fearing the legal repercussions.
I would keep the gun and the ammo at different locations, locked away. wouldnt want any poor fellow hurt themselves. I know safety well. The swiss way.

You cant be at two places at once haveing the gun & ammo in different locations,you will probly be better off with your PVC bow.......
Try faceing your fear.....
That piece of metal needs to come out of the gun & it will hit the target befor you hear it go boom...
good luck

reply to post by madenusa


I meant two locations like different rooms. plus our house is shaped the way that I have a few good seconds to get prepared when something goes south.
still, first is getting the piece. i still have obstacles. so I have plenty of time to figure out the details. until then, pvc bow it is.

Originally posted by Narcissous
reply to post by madenusa

 

I meant two locations like different rooms. plus our house is shaped the way that I have a few good seconds to get prepared when something goes south.
still, first is getting the piece. i still have obstacles. so I have plenty of time to figure out the details. until then, pvc bow it is.

We used to live in a very bad neighborhood before we moved out of town everone i knew had booby traps,
wires on door knobs & windows...& Guns.

thehomegunsmith.com...
thehomegunsmith.com...
good luck

reply to post by madenusa


geez, thanks. this is amazing. theoretically, if i take this to a mechanic, he will be able to make it?

reply to post by madenusa


i have thought about booby traps, but i dont want to risk my own well being

narcissous I have a few questions for you... please feel free to answer them either in the thread or U2U. Either way I'd like to do what I can to help you find a way to protect yourself. I very firmly believe that NO government has the right to prevent you from protecting the life of yourself and the people you care about.

Question 1: If you can secure a firearm are you going to be able to acquire ammunition?

Question 2: Is there a market in your country for demilitarized trophy weapons that have been modified so they can no longer fire?

Question 3: Do you have any working knowledge of chemistry or metal or woodworking?

Without knowing specifically what country you are in I can't provide you with specific details and avenues to pursue locally but these questions will help me start to formulate a viable roadmap you can use to obtain personal protection.


Now I'd also like to make a few comments as well though before you answer my questions.

1. No matter which avenue you decide to take bringing your plans to a mechanic or machinist you do not know extremely well or is not family or extended family it could very well result in you attracting the wrong type of attention.

2. The backyard bowyer videos are a Phenomenally good suggestion for an interim solution.

3. In addition to the backyard bowyer you should also google the chelsea brick which is made with newspaper and other very basic items.

4. If you do procure weapons you should NOT I repeat Do NOT store your weapons and ammunition in a different place! that is not proper safety! The only legitimate way to ensure the safety of yourself and other family members is to sit down with everyone living in your place and go over something basic like the Jeff Cooper Book Principles of Self Defense. Principles of Self Defense full version pdf

5. Did I mention safety? Seriously Firearms while very useful are also extremely deadly if handled incorrectly or in a careless manner. It's not just a matter of you being safe but everyone in your house being safe.

6. If you are going to go down the path of securing lethal weapons you must do the appropriate soul searching and contemplation to determine whether you can live with yourself if you are forced to kill someone in self defense. I say this for two reasons.... One is because if you don't think about this ahead of time you may hesitate when the time comes and it's life and death. If you hesitate statistically you are very likely to have your weapon taken from you and used against you or your family. Two the psychological ramifications of killing someone are not to be taken lightly. While I do not subscribe to the theory that it's always wrong to take a life... as a matter of fact I think there are times when it's all but unconscionable NOT to take the life of an attacker it is still something that should not be taken lightly.

I will close with a simple statement that it heartens me to see people from all around the world waking up to the fact that civilization is always one thin strand away from evaporating around us. You have embarked on a journey that if done right will not only make you and your family safer but will also aid tremendously in your own personal growth into an ethical and moral individual willing to fight for the right reasons.

I also live in a country where the police is useless in general,and there is strict gun control,and guns are extremely expensive,even if you did manage to get a permit to own.This is because of a particular agenda by the government of my particular country,a racist,genocidal agenda.It would be cheaper on the black market indeed.But as you say,the types you'd have to meet,to get this,and in my particular country,if you're of a certain race,they would melt the key down, never mind throw it away,if you were found with an unlicensed gun.Im really just writing to commiserate,and offer the advice of developing yr martial arts skills.Also to remind you,if your life is under serious threat in close combat-bite out the assailant's jugular if you're convinced its the only way to survive your battle.You can brush your teeth afterwards,its only blood,not poison or acid.For the record,if i was nearby,i would have helped you and your mom.I would have at least tried my best anyway.

Also,try to kick to kick a kneecap ,as hard as you can,if you can manage to break this,its excruciatina And debilitating.And although gross,you stick your thumbs as deep into the assailant's eyes as possible and try to pry his eyes out of the sockets.Squeamishness is your enemy,remember that.Survival is often "wet work" and to be honest with you,This is not the type of scenario where the meek gets to inherit the earth.They get to inherit a coffin.