Amsterdam to create 'scum villages'

Amsterdam to create 'scum villages'

www.telegraph.co.uk

Amsterdam is to create "Scum villages" where nuisance neighbours and anti-social tenants will be exiled from the city and rehoused in caravans or containers with "minimal services" under constant police supervision.

The tough approach taken ...reflects hardening attitudes to routine anti-social behaviour that falls short of criminality.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Holland is known for a long history of unconventional -- and often controversial -- arrangements to tackle social problems. This new setup is sure to raise eyebrows as well. Is this totalitarian and Orwellian social lockdown, or simply a practical solution to the issue of growing dischord in Amsterdam?

These "scum villiages" sound like pretty rough living, for people who haven't been formally charged with a crime but who are deemed "anti-social." But the question becomes: Deemed by who? According to what criteria? What mechanisms will be in place to assure that the system will not be abused? And where does it end when society starts telling people not convicted of any crime where they can and cannot live?

www.telegraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by silent thunder


They're doing this now??!!

Hell, the US has been doing this for years. Most of our inner city neighborhoods are designed this way.

No, I'm kidding. I don't really know what to say, I think it's something that will have to prove itself over time. It's probably taking less stress off of prisons, but I doubt it will help people from killing each other.

reply to post by silent thunder


That's just great. Give LA latin cops and the entertainment elites entrenched within our LA government police city a reason to lock up anyone they find as a threat against them, including former auditors who have audited them. That's just f'n great.

Amsterdamn, don't do it.

Is this totalitarian and Orwellian social lockdown, or simply a practical solution to the issue of growing dischord in Amsterdam?

New members (and some old) of the Dutch community have taken advantage of their leniency. How many opportunities are you going to give people before they completely shoot themselves in the foot.

Considering they are not lining up to throw people in jail like some countries, I doubt the "scum villages" will even be that bad.

The Dutch justice ministry has announced it will close eight prisons and cut 1,200 jobs in the prison system. A decline in crime has left many cells empty.

During the 1990s the Netherlands faced a shortage of prison cells, but a decline in crime has since led to overcapacity in the prison system. The country now has capacity for 14,000 prisoners but only 12,000 detainees.

vorige.nrc.nl...

This was after they had a prison boom because they didn't even have places to put them, or were willing to put them in. Immigration has had a big effect on prison in the country in the last 20 years though.

The relatively open borders and easy international mobility of the Netherlands makes it an attractive destination for immigrants.[42] As a result, the Dutch have also encountered a substantial increase in the infiltration of illegal aliens.[28] In fact, after the prison construction boom in the 1990s, the number of illegal aliens detained for removal increased from 2,000 to 9,600 in only eight years—a 380 percent increase.[25] As a result, 10 percent of all prison capacity is required just for the detention of illegal aliens.[25]

So the scum cities, is it going to be that bad?

This change notwithstanding, the Dutch incarceration philosophy stresses the need to minimize the hardships on the prisoner.[44] This philosophy emphasizes maximizing prisoner contacts with family and the preservation of community ties.[44] Prisoners are able to enjoy many of the benefits of life on the outside. For example, inmates can receive visitors once a week, talk on the phone, and participate in sports.[45] Rehabilitative measures, however, such as the procurement of education to prisoners, have been severely curtailed in recent years.[40]

en.wikipedia.org...

The Dutch are progressive with their prisons, I don't a measure that comes before it is going to be that bad.

Although it may not be successful either:

The Dutch Parool newspaper observed that the policy was not a new one. In the 19th century, troublemakers were moved to special villages in Drenthe and Overijssel outside Amsterdam. The villages were rarely successful, becoming sink estates for the lawless.

"We have learned from the past," said the mayor's spokesman. "A neighbourhood can deal with one problem family but if there are more the situation escalates."

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Essentially it's to protect good families in public housing that are being harassed by troublemakers. The problem is when you throw a bunch of troublemakers together like this, you basically create a ghetto. As reflected in the article...

and they'll still be better of that 70% of the worlds population I bet.

Wow, I wonder if it will work. Enforced removal from your home based on behavior. It's like criminals and prison and a slightly lower level..

Originally posted by iamhobo
reply to post by silent thunder

 

They're doing this now??!!

Hell, the US has been doing this for years. Most of our inner city neighborhoods are designed this way.

No, I'm kidding. I don't really know what to say, I think it's something that will have to prove itself over time. It's probably taking less stress off of prisons, but I doubt it will help people from killing each other.

edit on 3-12-2012 by iamhobo because: (no reason given)

This is done indirectly through public housing and other means isn't it? You might be joking, but there's some truth to it..

As someone who has anti-social neighbors with behavioral problems, I think it's a great idea, there's only so much you can do with these people and at least if they're all in the same place the cops can control them better.

Or, will it create "no go" zones as in France and England?

How quickly these Dutch conservatives forget about having to eat tulips to survive during WWII occupation and beng treated like cattle. Now they are creating their own ghettos to satisfy their desire to remove antisocial behavior from their utopian society.

What a messed up world when a liberal country like Netherlands makes antisocial behavior a crime! Shame on you!

Originally posted by earthalien50
How quickly these Dutch conservatives forget about having to eat tulips to survive during WWII occupation and beng treated like cattle. Now they are creating their own ghettos to satisfy their desire to remove antisocial behavior from their utopian society.

What a messed up world when a liberal country like Netherlands makes antisocial behavior a crime! Shame on you!

Do you really blame them , thousands of really nasty idiot drug addicts from all over the Europe have gravitated to that place because they can not get on with the normal people in their own countries and they think they will be accepted in Amsterdam. Now the poor people in Amsterdam have to put up with their anti social behavior.

Im not talking about the average pot smoking hippies but the hard drug taking thieves.

Nothing wrong with being "anti-social" unless your a nutbag...

The idea of a "scum village" is kind of sickening. It's like wth kind of world are we living in where we can easily pass judgement and decide someone's fate so easily...?

...Oh wait that's being going one for centuries. My mistake.

-SAP-

reply to post by PhoenixOD


It is antisocial behavior to lock someone up that did not commit a crime. Does that sound like a democratic country to you?

If every country locked people up for this behavior, I would venture to say that half of the folks at ATS would be visited by the authorities, including me. Does this sound like a familiar scenario?

Originally posted by earthalien50
How quickly these Dutch conservatives forget about having to eat tulips to survive during WWII occupation and beng treated like cattle. Now they are creating their own ghettos to satisfy their desire to remove antisocial behavior from their utopian society.

What a messed up world when a liberal country like Netherlands makes antisocial behavior a crime! Shame on you!

They are trying to protect people being taken advantage of.

He complained that long-term harassment often led to law-abiding tenants, rather than their nuisance neighbours, being driven out.
"This is the world turned upside down," the mayor said at the weekend.

"The aim is not to reward people who behave badly with a new five-room home with a south-facing garden. This is supposed to be a deterrent," he said.

Read more: www.smh.com.au...

I'm not saying the effort will work, just that it doesn't go without good intention.

Originally posted by earthalien50
reply to post by PhoenixOD

 

It is antisocial behavior to lock someone up that did not commit a crime. Does that sound like a democratic country to you?

If every country locked people up for this behavior, I would venture to say that half of the folks at ATS would be visited by the authorities, including me. Does this sound like a familiar scenario?

So you are on free handouts from the government making life difficult for your neighbours? Shame on you. Please don't put me in that category, thank you.

And stop relating your countries rules to another, as other countries have a completely different outlook.

Originally posted by SloAnPainful
Nothing wrong with being "anti-social" unless your a nutbag...

The idea of a "scum village" is kind of sickening. It's like wth kind of world are we living in where we can easily pass judgement and decide someone's fate so easily...?

...Oh wait that's being going one for centuries. My mistake.

-SAP-

Think a lot of this has to do with definition of the term, I'm talking about abusive people with no respect for those they live around. On that definition I think it's a good thing.

reply to post by Zcustosmorum


Understood. Just needed a bit different clairifcation is all.

Interesting topic though. Got me thinking a bit.

-SAP-

reply to post by earthalien50


You have to realize what the layout of most European towns an cities are like , everyone lives on top of each other. Buildings can house many different apartments. You have to learn to respect your neighbors and give then some kind of consideration or things get out of control. When you have people in the building involved in constant drug taking , parties , fights , littering , passing out, overdosing, having payed sex in public places, being sick and urinating in your hallways. Its not an urban paradise its total hell for anyone living there , certainly not a place safe for children.

Amsterdam is a liberal place and beautiful city but there are to many people there just taking the p**s and ruining it for everyone else. Most of these people don't come from Amsterdam either, they just move there because they think they can get away with that kind of behavior. So rather than change the laws of the land and make that kind of behavior illegal they are going to move out all the idiots.

People should respect the fact they have more freedom than most places in Europe and not ruin it for everyone else. Its a clear message..play nice or get the hell out.

reply to post by silent thunder


How are they going to fit all those Dutch in Detroit?

Originally posted by boncho

Originally posted by earthalien50
reply to post by PhoenixOD

 

It is antisocial behavior to lock someone up that did not commit a crime. Does that sound like a democratic country to you?

If every country locked people up for this behavior, I would venture to say that half of the folks at ATS would be visited by the authorities, including me. Does this sound like a familiar scenario?

So you are on free handouts from the government making life difficult for your neighbours? Shame on you. Please don't put me in that category, thank you.

And stop relating your countries rules to another, as other countries have a completely different outlook.

It's not nice to put words in my mouth. Obviously you have a very limited definition of antisocial behavior that relates to welfare and being a difficult neighbor.

It is funny that you would suggest that my personal life has anything to do with my discussion. I will not take it personally. I guess a weak argument requires a personal attack though.