Bloody new photo of Trayvon Martin's killer

reply to post by buster2010


Exactly ..she assumes this kid was up to no good..based on his race and nothing more. They like to bring up Martin's past and use it as a defense, yet Zimmerman knew nothing about his past.

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by yuppa
reply to post by eNumbra

 

If the fool was old enough to strike the adult he was old enough to know the risk and consequences. I am so tired of people not taking personal responsibility and always finding a excuse. POint is The boy is dead and according to evidence it was self defense. ANd has everyone forgot the break in kit he was holding onto for someone?

What evidence points to self defense? Zimmerman started it he can't claim self defense the only person who could have claimed it was Martin. In fact even the people who wrote the stand your ground law in Florida said he couldn't use that as a defense.

I do not know who said it doesn’t apply but obviously they were not familiar with the facts. I pointed out earlier in this thread that the transcripts, dispatch recordings, and the statement which is available online if you do a little searching all point to it being self-defense. The moment Martin returned to confront Zimmerman is when he was in the wrong. The second he attacked Zimmerman the stand your ground law applied.

Originally posted by Grimpachi

Originally posted by PsykoOps
If someone stalks me and pulls a gun on me I'd try to disarm them too. Bloody nose wouldn't be surprise from that.

In a case like that I would too but fortunately we know for a FACT that IS NOT what happened.

Martin returned to where Zimmerman was and if hypothetically Zimmerman had his gun already out Martin would have to be one of the dumbest people I have heard of, too then come after and attack an armed man. Let’s assume he is not that dumb in which case it proves Zimmerman did not have his gun out which means Martin then attacked Zimmerman which lead to his death in Florida that is justifiable homicide in self-defense under the stand your ground law.

Not under Florida's law. The people that wrote it said he couldn't use it. When he went against the dispatcher and followed Martin after he was told not he lost all rights to that defense.

I thought this subject was dead. I hate it. None of you were there, none of you know what happened yet you all pick a side. There is no logic in that.

reply to post by buster2010


When did he go against the dispatcher? That is a false claim. Check the tapes the transcripts or even my earlier posts. The moment he was attacked stand your ground applies.

I have a CC permit I live very close to where this happened I listened to the recordings and read the report. You do not have your facts strait.

OJ Simpson did it.....

I really liked how shortly after this incident a T-shirt hit the streets calling Zimmerman a Blankedy Blank "Cracker". As far as I recall, Zimmerman is Hispanic. There are always people trying to make these types of incidents into race wars and "hate crimes".

Here's the deal. None of us were there. None of us can attest as to whether the actions taken by Zimmerman OR Martin that night were warranted. None of us should care. Crimes happen. It's up to the court now to process the information and determine who was at fault.

On a side note, I don't feel like the Pharmacist Jerome Ersland of Oklahoma City should have gotten charged with murder for defending his staff and customers from a gun-toting punk either... but there ya have it. The judicial system at work.
OKLAHOMA PHARMACY SHOOTING

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by buster2010

 

When did he go against the dispatcher? That is a false claim. Check the tapes the transcripts or even my earlier posts. The moment he was attacked stand your ground applies.

I have a CC permit I live very close to where this happened I listened to the recordings and read the report. You do not have your facts strait.

Do back and reread your memory is flawed.

911 dispatcher: Are you following him? [2:24] Zimmerman: Yeah. [2:25] 911 dispatcher: OK. We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]

Zimmerman 911 Call Transcript – Trayvon Martin

George Zimmerman, Lawyers Seek Trial Delay, Release Of Trayvon Martin's Personal Information

Zimmerman's legal team says Martin's Facebook and Twitter activity "is discoverable as it is reasonably calculated to lead to relevant admissible evidence

If true then is this not premeditation?

Also for the people claiming Martin was a criminal.

In the weeks and months after Martin's death, Zimmerman's supporters and conservative websites used Martin's online social activity, in some cases mistaking other individuals for Martin, to paint him as a violent, troubled young man. A white supremacy group hacked his Twitter account and a number of images, many of which were not in fact Martin, began circulating in emails railing against Martin and a so-called liberal media bias.

"These people hacked this dead youth's social media accounts, his email account, and stooped as low as to plaster the internet with photoshopped and fake images purporting to be Trayvon," Crump said. "On the advice of counsel, and with the intent to preserve Trayvon's public reputation, Trayvon Martin's parents deactivated all of his electronic accounts.

It was all lies. Here is his criminal activity that got him suspended..Martin was suspended for an "empty baggy that had contained pot. Hardly a big criminal...or are all pot smokers criminals?

As for the poster claiming Zimmerman did not go against the 9/11 operator..they told him not to follow Martin but he did. Read the transcripts.

George Zimmerman's 911 call transcribed

911 dispatcher: Are you following him?
[2:24] Zimmerman: Yeah.
[2:25] 911 dispatcher: OK. We don’t need you to do that.

George Zimmerman’s Story Continues To Shift

reply to post by buster2010


Yup and then he went back to his vehicle. That does not constitute going against the dispatcher it means he complied.

Just like I stated in an earlier post so you proved my point.

I also pointed out earlier the dispatcher has no authority to give an order so even if he didn’t comply it would not put Zimmerman in the wrong.

Since you found the transcript you should read the whole thing.

The whole stand your ground does not apply to Zimmerman..

Mark O'Mara, who is defending George Zimmerman

"The facts don't seem to support a 'stand your ground' defense," O'Mara said

Standing Your Ground and Vigilantism

Zimmerman acted inappropriately in the moments leading up to the shooting, and Martin would still be alive if Zimmerman had behaved as he should have. Supporters of pro-self-defense policies should roundly condemn Zimmerman’s actions, and Florida should change its laws to prevent this incident from repeating itself.

Zimmerman can be heard huffing and puffing, the operator asks if he’s giving chase, and Zimmerman replies in the affirmative. “Okay, we don’t need you to do that,” the operator says. Zimmerman says “Okay,” but keeps running anyhow.

Zimmerman told police that Martin jumped him from behind. Martin’s girlfriend, who was on the phone with him while he was running, says that Martin asked “Why are you following me?”; Zimmerman replied “What are you doing here?”; and then a scuffle ensued.

Sounds like Zimmerman instigated the whole incident..so self defense is useless either way.

reply to post by Trustfund


Something stinks with this case. I don't know what it is but there is something there. As far as crimes go, violent or otherwise, age is of no significance. 17 years old is certainly old enough for doing every crime imaginable.

Ok, Martin wasn't an angel, he was suspended from school 3 times already that year. Which gives the sense he was in fact some kind of trouble maker.
As for Zimmerman, an insurance underwriter driving around armed in his gated community policing his neighborhood.
Some kind of scuffle broke out and Zimmerman shot Martin.

Personally, if some dude drives up to me and started to ask all sorts of questions I would in fact be on the defensive. Maybe even a little cocky. If he insists on following me and badgering me I will get hostile. Especially if I was just walking home.

If Martin actually started to run as Zimmerman approached with is car, with Zimmerman's experience he should have known the Martin would eventually run back home. Why didn't he just stay back watched were he went then tell the cops, and then the police can do their jobs and investigate.

Instead Zimmerman goes after the Martin. What would one expect to happen? Create an unnecessary confrontation and you will get hostile lash back, maybe even violent.

There are huge pieces missing from this puzzle. The way I see it if Zimmerman would have been vigilant which is "Keeping careful WATCH for possible danger or difficulties" , everything could of been avoided.

Originally posted by eNumbra
17 is not an adult just for clarification's sake.


at 13 you become a man in jewish tradition
at 16(typically) is when age of consent laws begin saying its okay to have sex
at 17 you can see an R rated movie by yourself
at 18 you can vote, be sent to war, post pictures of yourself having sex
at 19 you can smoke
at 21 you can drink


17 is not an adult.

You can be 17 and go to basic training as long as High School is finished and you have consent. So if you can be in the military at 17 you are an adult.

reply to post by kerazeesicko

911 dispatcher:

OK.

We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]

The moment they said they didn't need him to follow. To be clear this is not an order nor can they lawfuly give an order.

Zimmerman:

OK. [2:28]

Vebal confirmation that he will comply with the request.


How does we do not need you to do that translate into him willfully going against the dispatcher?

When the dispatcher told him that he then started to return to his vehicle so please explain how complying with the dispatcher is going against them. The only thing you have shown is the point where they said they did not need him following him and have you have not shown where he continued to follow after that point.


The call also verifies that he lost sight of Martin so that means Martin returned to the scene and instigated the altercation. Stand your ground laws apply.

I am sure there are people that will argue against Castle doctrin in this case as I have found plenty that will argue for it. That is why this is going to trial and as I stated earlier after reading the transcripts and his statements I have no doubt that Zimmerman will be found innocent.

The Trayvon Martin case brought a large degree of criticism to the law. Legal experts are split as to whether charges will be dropped under Florida's stand-your-ground law before the case even goes to trial, as the extant Florida law allows the shooter, George Zimmerman, to argue that the charges should be dropped before trial even begins. Legal experts are also split as to whether Zimmerman's actions will be viewed as self-defense, should the case go to trial.[23]

The 2011 Florida Statutes

Title XLVI

CRIMES

Chapter 776

JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—
A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or

(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102; s. 2, ch. 2005-27.



776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—

www.husseinandwebber.com...



If he is considered the aggressor this part applies however Martin became the aggressor when he returned to confront Zimmerman and especially when he attacked him. It really doesn’t matter which one you think is the case because either instance clears Zimmerman.

776.041 Use of force by aggressor.—


The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:



(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or

(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

History.—s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1190, ch. 97-102.

Edit to add

This is part of an article from the Orlando Sentinel a local paper and not a blog.
[url]http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-08-09/news/os-george-zimmerman-stand-your-ground-20120809_1_george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-mark-o-mara[ /url]

And to qualify for immunity under Florida's "stand your ground" law, his fear must be reasonable and he must have believed that unless he acted immediately, he would have died or been severely injured.

Everything I have read especially his statement shows it was life or death. In Zimmerman’s statement he was being beaten on the ground and Martin saw his gun then stated you are going to die tonight and was the first person to reach for Zimmerman’s gun. In short Zimmerman got to his weapon first and Martin is dead. Justifiable homicide.

You can believe what you want but I will stick to the statements, the evidence including what I could actually see where Zimmerman had obviously been beaten and bloodied and how Zimmerman was questioned for over 5 hours and his story didn’t change. The only reason he was later charged is because of the media and outside pressure. This case should have never gone to court the prosecutor is probably going to lose her job after this case and that is what almost every former prosecutor here in Florida has stated.

Originally posted by eNumbra
17 is not an adult just for clarification's sake.


at 13 you become a man in jewish tradition
at 16(typically) is when age of consent laws begin saying its okay to have sex
at 17 you can see an R rated movie by yourself
at 18 you can vote, be sent to war, post pictures of yourself having sex
at 19 you can smoke
at 21 you can drink


17 is not an adult.

Horse hockey. Minimum age for joining the US Military is 17, with parents approval. If the Army and Marines determine they are adults you're running into a stiff argument!!

Minimum Age is 17

Got any idea of the number of 17 year old "adults" that have served in Iraq and Afganistan"?

"The Director of Military Personnel Policy for the US Army stated in a letter to Human Rights Watch that "A total of 62 soldiers were 17 years old upon arrival to both Afghanistan and Iraq during 2003 and 2004. These 62 soldiers served in all capacities in the Army". He stated that as of 29 March 2004 there were no soldiers in Iraq who were 17 years old.

Source: Sean J. Byrne, Brigadier General, US Army, Director of Military Personnel Policy, letter to Human Rights Watch, 2 April 2004.

Nice try, but no cigar.

Everyone gets into fights .. usually noone dies unless one of the people in the fight has a gun. Shooting someone in a 1 on 1 is a cowards way out. No matter how you look at it, the shooter was a coward and so are his supporters. I have been in countless fight in school and out ... no one died because a gun wasn't present. If he can't defend himself properly without a gun, and wanted to play Kick-Ass so bad .. why didn't he learn self defense so he can stop that "Hulk" of a 17 year old. I'm all for guns ... just not shooting defenseless people.

Is this whole thread really arguing about the necessity of violence? No one was there, no one saw what happened. Why is everyone pretending to know everything?

In my personal opinion, from the looks of it, Zimmerman made some poor choices and that kid made some poor choices. The kid paid for his with his life, and Zimmerman will spend the rest of his life reflecting on it. Does he really need your approval or disapproval? No. He's facing the judge, and that's scary enough for anyone.

It disgusts me how many people are jumping on the bandwagon and judging a man they don't even know. Look at all the hate, seriously. This kind of makes me afraid of humans. Is this the sort of darkness ATS is hiding under its cloak?

reply to post by blackreign2012


You obviously know next to nothing about this case. Using a gun, fists, Knives, or any weapon no more makes you a coward than posting ignorant replies behind a keyboard.

So you have been in some fights big deal. You think people don’t die from fistfights then you haven’t been around long enough to know better. Carrying a gun for protection is smart where I live and if you had done any research on this case you would know he only bought the gun and got his concealed carry permit after his wife was attacked by a stray dog in the neighborhood which a police officer had suggested he get. So in your book real men let their wives get mauled by animals because only cowards have guns. Your post was almost too ignorant to reply to. Almost.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Trustfund

 

Since when is 17 years old a child? Don't be ridiculous. If Zimmerman had been unarmed and Martin had beaten him to death you would be calling to charge him as an adult (and he would have been too).

Actually had the situation been as you said, or truly reversed, it would have been merely a blip on the local news and most of us would never have even heard about it. Since Zimmerman was initially reported as a Caucasian, which turned it into an instant hate crime (because apparently according to the media, black on white crime isn't hate crime, only the reverse is.) it became national news.

The whole situation disgusts me, to be honest.

Originally posted by XLR8R
reply to post by Trustfund

 

If Martin actually started to run as Zimmerman approached with is car, with Zimmerman's experience he should have known the Martin would eventually run back home. Why didn't he just stay back watched were he went then tell the cops, and then the police can do their jobs and investigate.

DING DING DING DING DING