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Quantum consciousness?
That sounds vague and doesnt really explain much.
Id have to say it still sounds religious as a result.
Originally posted by neoholographic
reply to post by muzzleflash
There's nothing religious about it. Again, people us these silly refutations because they can't refute the actual experiments and theories.
Religion without Science is blind whilst Science without Religion is lame.
The time is upon us where ignorance will not be allowed as acceptable refutation to things like Near Death Experiences.
So, we're ignorant of which current QC theory is accurate, but it doesn't matter, because we're also ignorant of what the needed, new, theories will be.
There's several theories of Quantum Consciousness. One of my favorite is Hammeroff/Penrose Orch Or. I don't think the final answer has been found because there needs to be more research and new theories of Quantum Consciousness but we're definitely on the right track.
"...the Illuminati eventually controlled the science departments in all collages and institutions of higher learning. The plan was to stifle scientific knowledge and then twist what was left to fit the science they wanted the people to believe. They accomplished this by adopting new rules in regards to scientific research.
With the control of science in their hands, and the discouragement of seeking new findings they took it a step further. Next, the Robber Baron flunkies of the Illuminati used their ill-gotten gains, under the guise of philanthropy, to establish “Foundations” and “Societies” such as the National Geographical Society and the
Smithsonian Institute “for the increase and diffusion of knowledge among men,” but in reality to help cover-up and hide away anything that doesn’t fit the accepted theories."
Secret Societies - Who Controls Knowledge?
They Cast No Shadows by Brian Desborough
"Throughout recorded history, the Illuminati has successfully withheld from humankind major aspects of history and science in order to subjugate the masses"
"Historical, religious and political truths have been withheld from the general public in order to perpetuate armed conflict," he continues. "Similarly if the presently suppressed technology were to be made commercially available, disease, famine and environmental pollution virtually would become eradicated."
By manipulating the souls evolving on earth, the Illuminati have deliberately suppressed the spiritual facts of life, not to mention liberating technologies, which could bring plenitude to all.
Secrets of Suppressed Science and History
It's not entanglement that sounds religious, because there's proof of that.
Originally posted by neoholographic
What?
You have to be joking. Entanglement has been verified and studied for years. There's nothing vague about. Experiments show that entanglement isn't bound by classical space-time so the same goes for Quantum Consciousness.
There's nothing religious about it. Again, people us these silly refutations because they can't refute the actual experiments and theories.
Yes I read this:
Originally posted by neoholographic
reply to post by Arbitrageur
What?
Did you even read my original post?
You said the answer hasn't been found. It hasn't. Both you and the videos are making unconscionable leaps in logic, which means "woo" in my book, if you don't like word "religion"
I don't think the final answer has been found because there needs to be more research and new theories of Quantum Consciousness but we're definitely on the right track.
That entire movie "What tнe ♯$*! Do ωΣ (k)πow!?" Did exactly what you, Hameroff and some other woo-masters like to do, which is cite some real science, throw in come kooky ideas not supported by a shred of evidence, and then accuse their critics of rejecting the science. It's not the science we reject, it's the woo added to it which has no scientific foundation which is rejected.
This more developed version of their ideas was also widely attacked, and notably by the physicist Max Tegmark, who calculated that quantum states in microtubules would survive for only 10^−13 seconds, too brief to be of any significance for neural processes (Tegmark, 2000)[6]. Hameroff and the physicists Scott Hagan and Jack Tuszynski (Hagan, Hameroff & Tuszynski, 2002)[7] replied to Tegmark arguing that microtubules could be shielded against the environment of the brain. To date, there is no experimental confirmation of these proposed methods of shielding, but Hameroff has proposed tests that could falsify the theory...
Hameroff appeared as himself in the documentary film What tнe ♯$*! Do ωΣ (k)πow!? (2004). He also participated in the first Beyond Belief conference, where his theories were sharply criticized by Lawrence Krauss, among others.
You my friend, are susceptible to being misguided, since you apparently can't tell where quantum physics ends and quantum nonsense begins. Even one of the apparent supporters of quantum consciousness in the movie is actually against it:
"Most laypeople cannot tell where the quantum physics ends and the quantum nonsense begins, and many are susceptible to being misguided,"
Randi is more blunt and gets closer to the truth:
David Albert, a philosopher of physics who appears in the film, has accused the filmmakers of selectively editing his interview to make it appear that he endorses the film's thesis that quantum mechanics is linked with consciousness. He says he is "profoundly unsympathetic to attempts at linking quantum mechanics with consciousness."
This whole topic is woo central for quantum mysticism.
Skeptic James Randi described the film as "a fantasy docudrama" and "[a] rampant example of abuse by charlatans and cults."[18] Eric Scerri in a review for Committee for Skeptical Inquiry dismisses it as "a hodgepodge of all kinds of crackpot nonsense," where "science [is] distorted and sensationalized."[19] A BBC reviewer described it as "a documentary aimed at the totally gullible."[20]
According to Margaret Wertheim, "History abounds with religious enthusiasts who have read spiritual portent into the arrangement of the planets, the vacuum of space, electromagnetic waves and the big bang. But no scientific discovery has proved so ripe for spiritual projection as the theories of quantum physics, replete with their quixotic qualities of uncertainty, simultaneity and parallelism." Werteim continues that the movie "abandons itself entirely to the ecstasies of quantum mysticism, finding in this aleatory description of nature the key to spiritual transformation. As one of the film’s characters gushes early in the proceedings, “The moment we acknowledge the quantum self, we say that somebody has become enlightened." A moment in which "the mathematical formalisms of quantum mechanics [...] are stripped of all empirical content and reduced to a set of syrupy nostrums".
Unfortunately, as bad as the reviews are of that what the bleep movie, the "evidence" you've posted in the OP is even worse. It's woo for people that don't have a clue where quantum mechanics ends and quantum nonsense begins, and unfortunately, we are bombarded by quantum nonsense from all kinds of purveyors of woo, which you seem to want to spread. Maybe you should study quantum mechanics so you can tell what claims are real?
Richard Dawkins stated that "the authors seem undecided whether their theme is quantum theory or consciousness. Both are indeed mysterious, and their genuine mystery needs none of the hype with which this film relentlessly and noisily belabours us", concluding that the film is "tosh."
The difference is, Randi admits he is doing things to fool us with his magic, so that doesn't really make him a con man. The con man doesn't admit he's fooling you. And I happen to agree completely with Randi's opinion, though I didn't form my opinion based on what he said, but by watching the movie, and by studying quantum mechanics.
Originally posted by markatUCR
Randi himself is a conman and liar of the highest order. And geting to the bottom of the truth about that is far easier than getting to the bottom of quantum mechanics.
Originally posted by Arbitrageur
The difference is, Randi admits he is doing things to fool us with his magic, so that doesn't really make him a con man.
James Randi talks about how learning magic tricks may lead to adopting a more skeptical point of view about supernatural and paranormal claims.
The thing is, real con men never come out and tell you they are fooling you like that. But if one was to argue that charlatans are better at recognizing charlatans than the average person is, I would find that argument persuasive, since they know the tricks of the trade.
Randi was once accused of actually using "psychic powers" to perform acts such as spoon bending. According to James Alcock, at a meeting where Randi was duplicating the performances of Uri Geller, a professor from the University at Buffalo shouted out that Randi was a fraud. Randi said, "Yes, indeed, I'm a trickster, I'm a cheat, I'm a charlatan, that's what I do for a living. Everything I've done here was by trickery."...
You said the answer hasn't been found. It hasn't. Both you and the videos are making unconscionable leaps in logic, which means "woo" in my book, if you don't like word "religion"
European robins may maintain quantum entanglement in their eyes a full 20 microseconds longer than the best laboratory systems, say physicists investigating how birds may use quantum effects to “see” Earth’s magnetic field.
“How can a living system have evolved to protect a quantum state as well — no, better — than we can do in the lab with these exotic molecules?” asked quantum physicist Simon Benjamin of Oxford University and the National University of Singapore, a co-author of the new study. “That really is an amazing thing.”
To put this in perspective, Benjamin introduced an exotic molecule called N@C60, a geometric cage of carbon with a nitrogen atom inside. This molecule is one of the best-known laboratory systems for maintaining entanglement. “The cage acts to shield the atom, which is storing the information, from the rest of the world,” Benjamin said. “It’s considered to be quite a sexy, interesting, promising molecule.”
But at room temperature, even N@C60 only holds entanglement for 80 microseconds, or four-fifths of what birds appear to be doing.
“I think this is a very nice paper that attacks the problem from an interesting angle,” said Schulten, who was not involved in the work. “They use a hugely simplified model, but they make an interesting point. Entanglement could stay protected for tens of microseconds longer than we thought before.”
“The bird, however it works, whatever it’s got in there, it’s somehow doing better than our specially designed, very beautiful molecule,” Benjamin said. “That’s just staggering.”
However, these quantum states are notoriously fragile. Even in laboratory systems, atoms are cooled to near–absolute-zero temperatures to maintain entanglement for more than a few thousandths of a second. Biological systems would seem too warm and too wet to hold quantum states for long, yet that’s exactly what they appear to do.