I'm a Prisoner of the State Yet I Have Done Nothing Wrong

I don't want to rain on your parade about how the "MAN" is keeping you down, BUT.....

People should be responsible for their own actions.

I know plenty of people who have nice cars, but live in a trailer paying rent.

I also know plenty of people who have nice houses and cars and a hefty mortgage that they cannot really afford especially if their income were to decrease.

And then there are the few like me that own everything they have outright! Sure, we still have to pay rent on the land in the form of taxes, but it is manageable if we lose our income.

So when TSHTF those who owe will seek out family and friends who OWN.

I always have to laugh when someone is asked if they "Own or Rent" and they say "Own" even though the bank is really the owner and they will be paying them twice what they borrowed and triple what the home is worth.

Live within your means! Get rid of your debt! Stop trying to impress other idiots! Become self sufficient if possible!

If you do those things you will have a new outlook on life and "The Man" will have little power over you.

gubberment creep - late at night while you are sleeping gubberment comes a creeping.
never give up your guns - or your right to own them.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by Ismail
Why are we still voting then ?

You don't have to be genius to understand that economic imperatives always trump the well being of the public, and left wing as right wing governements alike are subjected to the same economic constraints. Why then are we so surprised when parties change but policies don't ?

If you have an economic system were mathematically, a few will end up being rich, and if being rich is being powerfull, and if the powerfull write the laws as they always have, then why is it not self-evident that the circle cannot be broken by reform or new laws. While this economic system stands, nothing will ever change.

So again, why do we continue to validate a system that doesn't work by giving it our vote ? And why aren't we adressing the motivation behind governement policy for what it is : economics ?

edit on 28-11-2012 by Ismail because: (no reason given)

Largely because, despite internet heroics, most people don't really have the stomach for the realities of a revolution. Also, it's easy to question the legitimacy of revolutions.

Voting and democracy is still a useful tool but we're not using it properly. With enough people, it's possible to change the nature of parties. For example, if enough people became party members, there'd be enough internal pressure to drag New Labour back to being a left wing party who would go against the economic paradigms of the last 30 years. A reinstating and implementation of Clause IV in Labour's constitution would be a massive changer and create a new/old system.

I do appreciate what you're saying though, I make a similar argument regarding foreign aid. It's basically exporting a broken political/economic model to countries that would be better off without the strings that come with 'development' aid.

I live in France, people voted in a left wing governement. Nothing has changed, and nothing will. It's not due to a lack of people in the parties, the people in the parties (I know a few who have their socialist party card) are just as dissapointed as the rest.

Politicians are showmen. They say what they need to say to get elected. I don't blame them, it's their job. I even believe that most of them are sincere, to some extent. But when they come to power, they have to contend with reality. Economic reality. And all their sweet promises go to hell. Oh sure, we're going to make gay marriage legal. I'm all for that. But that's not a policy.

All the stauch republicans (in France that means means partisans of the republic, not right wing) that I know say the same thing you do. And year in, year out, nothing changes. I took great hope in the new political wave over in latin-america. That's all going to hell as well.

So at what point, looking back at centuries of the same pyramidal organisation, at the same mistakes that are being repeated over and over again, are we going to wise up and say : "It's not the politicians fault and it's not the people's fault, because they have all changed over time. It must have something to do with our underlying economic system because that is what motivates political decision" ?

I'm not talking revolution here. I don't believe in revolution, because history has shown that revolution does not work either. I'm saying we just need to say no. Stop working, stop voting until the whole thing grinds to a halt, and we can finally collectively come to some sort of decision that does not lead to more of the same.

Our economic system is not economical at all. It is wastefull, polluting, and harmfull, and we need to change it. Because THAT is what pulls people out of their beds every morning, THAT is what is considered by our governement when they decide whether or not to open hospitals and schools, and THAT is what decides who lives and who dies all over this planet, day in, day out.

I'm tired of people dying in the third world for our flatscreen TV's. I'm tired of slave labor in Asia so we can buy cr*p that we throw away or that breaks after a year. And I'm tired of hearing that, despite all these years of doing just that, if only we could tweak this law or elect this other guy, or throw these people out of the country, things would get better. They haven't, don't and won't.

You can't use democracy correctly in an inherently unfair economical system. Period.

Yes, and those real estate prices raised here over a period of about 15 years in Canada, across board, though real estate conspiracy to fix prices is illegal. When my 21 year old son was preschool age, houses were 180 000. Rents for an older house was 600-800. So half that in the British pounds roughly. Then all across boards, everything raised. Now rents are comparative to many Vancouver areas, even in Buckley BC and the far rural north.

Of course it was a conspiracy and it sold all our children down the river with a hole in the raft. It used to be we sold our daughers out by having things orchestrated so single men could get a house working for the mill for 22 dollars and hour, a house that barely over 100 000. Low payments. But a female housekeeper like my friend who charged 20 dollars and hour and had a waiting list, couldn't.

Now with those prices, no one but the elites can. Isn't that funny and swell???

Democracies require well organized groups of citizens watchdogs to function. Always! We missed that part.

They want their serfdom back, they want us all to be impoverished slaves working THEIR land, but its illegal basic and intrinsic illegality that we are not fully entitled and co-sharing this earth without the crown ownership and the realtors to begin with.

Anytime we don't notice bad trends, and pay attention, we are selling our children out. And quite frankly compared to the mug shots on the royal families, the bankers and the leaders, our children are angels and beauteous and beloved beyond compare. So what is the deal???? Why are people so unable to reach across the board and ensure all people are equal, the poor cared for, and democracies interactive and responsive?

We're creating our future here, both in the world, and spiritually.

What happened instead, was, people got greedy. Instead of properties staying affordable and maintaining value, everyone wanted to have them sell at profit. That it meant their own children couldn't save a down payment and afford a house, and their own grandchildren couldn't have a backyard garden and pets most of the time, and live normal lives, DID NOT STAND IN THE WAY OF GREED.

You see, this takeover happened with a payoff, to the then current homeowner.

Originally posted by Unity_99
They want their serfdom back, they want us all to be impoverished slaves working THEIR land, but its illegal basic and intrinsic illegality that we are not fully entitled and co-sharing this earth without the crown ownership and the realtors to begin with.

Anytime we don't notice bad trends, and pay attention, we are selling our children out. And quite frankly compared to the mug shots on the royal families, the bankers and the leaders, our children are angels and beauteous and beloved beyond compare. So what is the deal???? Why are people so unable to reach across the board and ensure all people are equal, the poor cared for, and democracies interactive and responsive?

We're creating our future here, both in the world, and spiritually.

What happened instead, was, people got greedy. Instead of properties staying affordable and maintaining value, everyone wanted to have them sell at profit. That it meant their own children couldn't save a down payment and afford a house, and their own grandchildren couldn't have a backyard garden and pets most of the time, and live normal lives, DID NOT STAND IN THE WAY OF GREED.

You see, this takeover happened with a payoff, to the then current homeowner.

edit on 28-11-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

Each generation sells out and leaves the mess to the next generation, it has been this way since the oldest civilizations.

We can only break such a pattern when it will be too little, too late.

Mass enlightenment is a pipe dream.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

Your threads makes no sense, you are not a prisoner you just have to work to live like everyone else so stop moaning. It’s called capitalism if you don’t like it why don’t you go try out North Korea and see how it goes

What exactly are you defending. You are defending the Fourth Estate and the banking Elite. If you like capilitsm why dont you go and live in a poor African country.. You are not making any sense...

the ousting of the old boys club in Westminister and the return of people making decisions for the greater good of all Citizens instead of that of the few wealthy ones.

reply to post by michael1983l

Sounds like the United States. Control of the many by the few has no national borders.

reply to post by michael1983l

Nigel Farage is the only current politician that I could vote for but what we really need is a revolution, the ousting of the old boys club in Westminister

Whilst I have more than just a passing admiration for him due to his stance and attitude to the EU it must be sais that Nigel Farage is a product of the 'old boys club' and an ex Conservative Party member whose non-EU opinions are very much in line with many of those aligned to the right of The Tory Party.

and the return of people making decisions for the greater good of all Citizens instead of that of the few wealthy ones.

A return?
Could you please point me to the time when this actually happened.

The great achievements and advancements that occurred in this country did so after the return of servicemen from WWI and WWII - they demanded an improved standard of living, a more compassionate and caring society and a greater say in the actual running of this country.

All those advancements have been gradually eroded over a period time - a policy that has been accelerated by the present administration.

The current social housing policy and related issues is but one manifestation of the greater agenda of returning UK society to something like that of pre-WWI.

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Ismail

 

The question is how do we change the Game. By creating a political party with the right ideas or by bringing down the system completely and building it a fresh. Either way it will be a difficult road.

The game must be changed by educating the players.

The same people who would complain about the costs of living probably fill their lives with unnecessary things and thus believe, because they have no money left, that they are hard done by.

In reality, the players have no concept of descerning needs from wants and that is what causes these kind of problems.

I have no sympathy for those who struggle with living or accomodation if they have such a non existant grasp on what is REALLY important in life. The same people who may have a new phone or laptop, car or foreign holiday.

If you don't have the money for it in your pocket, don't buy it or borrow.

Originally posted by nerbot

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Ismail

 

The question is how do we change the Game. By creating a political party with the right ideas or by bringing down the system completely and building it a fresh. Either way it will be a difficult road.

The game must be changed by educating the players.

The same people who would complain about the costs of living probably fill their lives with unnecessary things and thus believe, because they have no money left, that they are hard done by.

In reality, the players have no concept of descerning needs from wants and that is what causes these kind of problems.

I have no sympathy for those who struggle with living or accomodation if they have such a non existant grasp on what is REALLY important in life. The same people who may have a new phone or laptop, car or foreign holiday.

If you don't have the money for it in your pocket, don't buy it or borrow.

You are making a massive mistake my friend, in assuming that the blame lies with the consumer, not the system.

The fact of the matter is that before a child can walk he or she will have heard the ads for apple, coca-cola, bud lite and so on a considerable number of times. From birth the modern person in the West is bombarded
with pressure, a few kinds of pressure I will mention are social and advertising pressure to consume and work and public schooling which forces rote memorization and decreases both IQ and creativity, as well as any possibility of future independent learning..of course there are many other kinds of pressure, one is from the parents which pass on their narrow minded capitalism-adopted behavior patterns onto their children.

Very few are able to escape the brainwashing..

By the way, it is not in the system's interests to educate the people about the pitfalls of the system.

How many of these threads does it take to find the cause of the oppression?
Many spend their effort discussing it, and it seems with all the continuing oppression in the background that there is no accordance over the root cause.
Perhaps one should try learning how to effectively tackle this described problem first. That is, if finding the cause is what you really want to do.

reply to post by 1Learner


ive said it before and ill say it again the real problem is a rapidly growing population being subjected to systems of governance and commerce that emerged hundreds or in some cases thousands of years ago when you had much lower population densities and the ability to do things like start a farm, log, fish, pan for gold etc with the only cost being in taxes and your own labor (or hired labor)
you cant do these things now without incurring absolutely immense costs in licensing or land etc. which makes it prohibitively expensive without taking a large loan

the world is owned there is nowhere left for most of the money to go but up and this renders capitalism and republics largely obsolete (yeah i know "go try living in north korea then")
weve stunted our growth by clinging onto these things because they USED to work and its going to make the inevitable shift to a true democracy and system of fair trade fairly uncomfortable

Originally posted by QQXXw

Originally posted by nerbot

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by Ismail

 

The question is how do we change the Game. By creating a political party with the right ideas or by bringing down the system completely and building it a fresh. Either way it will be a difficult road.

The game must be changed by educating the players.

You are making a massive mistake my friend, in assuming that the blame lies with the consumer, not the system.

I never implied the problem lies with the consumer. I think the problem lies with parents and the education of their offspring to grow up in a world that isn't fueled by need but by things that are going to get them through life without falling victim to the problems pointed out in the OP's post.

Ultimately, the consumers you are not responsible, they are the byproduct of an era of parenting that feels their children are owed entitlement. Their own house, car, gadgets, distractions etc.

reply to post by nerbot


Do you think advertizers spend billions of dollars a year on something that doesn't work ?

At the end of the day, parents or no parents, you're still a byproduct of your culture my friend. So unless these "good parents" you talk about have raised their kids on a desert island, by the age of five I can guarantee you that they will already have been exposed to ad's, and to peer pressure about who's got the best sneakers.

The majority of people have always reflected the society they live in. Our society is consumerist, people are consumerists. No big surprise there.

You can wish for all you want, and blame this guy or that guy, at the end of the day, nothing has changed. Maybe for once we could try solving the problem at it's roots, instead of finding scapegoats it feels good to bash. If you feel that the problem is bad parenting, then why stop there ? Why not ask what causes bad parenting ?

Originally posted by michael1983l
I'm afraid to say that it has finally dawned on me, that I am a prisoner in my own country.

No you are not. Prisoners cannot leave. You can.

Now lets look at the statistics which back up my sentiments

The problem with statistics is that you can cut them any way you like. The average for house prices across the UK may be high, but if you look at it across regions and cut out the high-end properties then house prices are more affordable, as are rents.

Again, average gross earnings may be £500 per week, but how many people work part-time etc and how many people actually extract from the State various “income support” benefits to bolster their pay, thus making their tax bill moot.

Part of the problem is not around affordability per se, it is around people’s willingness to move to jobs in areas they don’t want to go to. People want everything on their own terms. If you cannot afford a £250K house, then move to a place where houses are cheaper.

Regards

reply to post by michael1983l


YOu are actually a prisoner of the state not because of mortages but because even if you do payoff your home you just can't sit in your home like if it was your own castle and do whatever yyou want.. you still have to get up and work so you can pay your taxes to your lord.. if not you get kicked off your land.


THere is no were to go to avoid paying taxes.... if you do not pay them you get kicked off you land and jailed... i think you really missed the true point of what you are... you are not a prisoner you are a slave..

Originally posted by michael1983l
I'm afraid to say that it has finally dawned on me, that I am a prisoner in my own country. I do not have metal bars on my windows and I have the key to my door but I am still a prisoner inside this country they call the UK. Equality has ended and it has been replaced with modern day slavery. Let me take a few moments to explain how this can be. It all starts with social engineering by the government, first they started out by saying that we can all own our own home (Thatcher in the late 70s), so the sheeple being the sheeple all start buying up their council houses. Then the Government de-regulates the Mortgage lenders and they start lending to people at 100% or even 110% mortgage, flooding the market with new buyers, who in the long term could not really afford what they were doing. House prices shoot up, pricing nearly all first time buyers off the market and then the rug gets pulled.

The financial system collapses and house prices bottom out, leaving those who have bought their house in negative equity. Repossesions soar and now the housing market is flooded with people needing to rent, because of the lack of mortgage's available and the price of housing compared to wage. All the houses that are now being repossesed is being bought up by the wealthy at rock bottom prices with a view to rent to the plebs at all time high rental prices. So now us plebs can't afford to buy nor can we afford to rent.

Now lets look at the statistics which back up my sentiments

Average house price
£249,958

House type Average price
Detached £343,105
Semi-detached £209,098
Terrace £209,808
Flat £245,533

Average House Rentqal Per Month

£707 per month

Average Wage

£24,228 which equals £19,007 a year after taxation or £1584 per callender month.

This means that the average house will cost 13.15 times the average take home pay.

The average rental price per month will take up over 50% of your take home pay when council tax is taken into consideration.


We are all financial prisoners and slaves to this country's elite.

If houses are 13 times the average salary then they're not at "rock bottom prices" are they.

They have a lot further to fall yet, then the stuff will really hit the fan.

At least all of the immigrants who came here for a free ride might go home.

Originally posted by Wide-Eyes
reply to post by michael1983l

 

Excellent truth here. However, I would just like to point something out that I think needs addressing.

Repossesions soar and now the housing market is flooded with people needing to rent, because of the lack of mortgage's available and the price of housing compared to wage. All the houses that are now being repossesed is being bought up by the wealthy at rock bottom prices with a view to rent to the plebs at all time high rental prices.

From what I can tell, the banks/mortgage lenders, aren't actually letting these properties out or selling them. They are sitting on them, waiting for the cost of housing to increase. They want to make the highest possible raise on these reposessed properties.

They are biding their time.

edit on 27-11-2012 by Wide-Eyes because: to clarify

And paying council tax and upkeep.

We work to make other's rich. We operate the infrastructure so others can have all the necessities of modern life that some of us can barely afford. Slavery is apt. Its getting damned cold up here in Yorkshire and I worry every winter as I switch on the gas fire. I panic over incoming bills which each quarter seem to go up and up. We don't work to make ourselves individually rich its always to line the pockets of someone else, unless you attempt self employment of course, another course guaranteed to give you a nervous breakdown with the red tape in this country!

What's more I read a survey that stated we were the most taxed country in the West! nice to know cheers!