Xmas is coming! Time to let the Santa myth go.

reply to post by tgidkp

I wouldn't mind having a celebration, if it were under terms that I could agree with.

You should do it. You might be surprised EVERYBODY needs to celebrate, even Grinches!!


After spending the evening watching 'The Grinch Who Stole Christmas' with my four year old tonight, I have to say:

Let your heart grow two sizes and join in the fun. For most people Christmas is still about family, fun, and giving.

Leave Santa alone

reply to post by 1/2 Nephilim


I'm sort of on the fence about this i agree about the lying part. However we told our kids when they found out that Santa was a symbol for the spirit of giving and that he is real in the sense that he symbolizes people giving and helping others. That when you were too young to understand fully that spirit is embodied in the story of Santa Clause till you were old enough to understand. That seemed to go over well with them no tears or any of that just oh ok I understand and they still trusted us.

My brothers kids were not not told the Santa story and they took a lot of flack from other parents and kids when their kids told other kids and at school and church Christmas parties etc where most or all of the other children believed in the myth. So in that sense the parents were the worst totally over reacting because they did not uphold the myth they told their kids...

reply to post by MidnightSunshine


I just don't see the problem with putting a little magic into a child's life. A normal child will understand it and get over it without any issue what so ever and not carry it to adulthood. I think the Op has a real problem and its not just mommy and daddy "terrible lies". People these days are way too sensitive and self focused, they can say whatever they want about the old days but take a look back we didn't have ADULT'S crying and whining about every little thing.

to. much. to. reply. to.

Were beating a dead horse here.

I've enjoyed the debate but can't defend my opinion any better than I already have. It was just something to talk about and I learned alot from it, for sure. Thanks to all who have actively participated and if you want to continue the discussion amongst yourselves, by all means.

I started the thread as a dishonest person so I suppose my last post following suit would be fitting. I lied, I don't care about your kids or how you raise them. Our future as a race is beyond saving. The over-whelming selfishness I have heard in some of these replies from supposed skeptics... does nothing but convince me that the outcome is bleak. Even the smart people are stupid..

GO LIE TO YOUR KIDS!!!

You all are right, its a GREAT character building lesson and EXCELLENT tradition allowing them to make that right of passage into..... NotaBabyAnymore-Hood.

Repeatedly people have said let them enjoy the magic! Let them enjoy they're innocence! That little transition they make when they learn the truth about these stories IS the end of they're innonence. Replies saying how the older kids know and don't tell the younger ones, they probably fight like little heathens 362 days out of the year and the ONLY reason the older ones dont say anything is because they're in on it.

They're in on the big secret. They are in on the BIG SECRET by the age of 10.. That is awesome, keep lying to them. It will make them critical thinkers and apparently we need more of those, just look at this thread.

reply to post by 1/2 Nephilim

Were beating a dead horse here.

I disagree.....unless you started the thread with the intention of converting other's to your adopt your idea's then as far as debating goes we did exactly as "it say's on the box".Debate doesn't have to end in resolve and rarely does.But thank you for the oppurtunity to reaffirm some of my own idea's about Christmas and also give me some things to think about with the posts other's shared.

As far as clever people being stupid.....no doubt there are "stupid" people in the world....but as in the case of beauty stupidity is in the eye of the beholder

I like Christmas, not a Christian though. I see it as more a time to have fun, eat and drink too much and spoil the kids a bit.
My daughter still kinda believes in Father Christmas...I once told her the tooth fairy never comes if kids are awake cos she's a werewolf and would frighten them so much they'd die....Oh, how we laughed.

I'm confused, and feel a little dirty. What happened here?

reply to post by 1/2 Nephilim


LOL, heck, who says "not a baby anymore"= no belief in Santa? I'm 32, and I LOVE Santa! I love seeing him and the kids seeing him, I love that part of Christmas along with all the other parts. My favorite movie at Christmas time is Polar Express. I have a Polar Express night where we make hot cocoa and cookies, all the kids in their christmas pajamas sit around in their sleeping bags and then in the morning we make waffles. Talk about bleak..your right..that is sooo bleak and bad and awful, Geez, what is the world coming to when we do things like that?

I think your narcissism and bleakness and black way of looking at the world, may have more to do with your believing in imaginary alien figures coming in December than parent's allowing their kids to believe in Santa. No, I'm not attacking you, or at least not meaning to be..but it really makes me mad when a Hypocrite calls other's hypocrites and liars. I'm guessing you've never lied in your life? never been dishonest? Yet your trying to call other's out for playing into the make believe of Santa? just like they play into the make believe of princesses and fairy godmothers because NO...it is no different at all...it's no different taking your child to Disney World to have breakfast with the characters as if their real and then sit on Santa's lap at Christmas...no difference what so ever. So, what should we do? take away every imaginative out of their life?

And I love love love who you assume to know what children are thinking (when you say you bet the older ones are trying so hard to contain themselves from telling the younger ones 362 days a year) when you have none at all..... So how could you possibly know what any of them are thinking? I, me, the person who has way to many nieces, nephews and second cousins along with my own 2 children can tell you what they are thinking....they are the first to go "SHHHHHHHH" when an adult verges on the wrong comment about Santa at holiday time. Yes, my dear, you are in the minority...and that wouldn't bother me at all, ...heck you don't want to believe in Santa? fine by me! You don't want your kids..that you don't have to believe in Santa...again, fine by me! But your extremely negative view on life as a whole (taking Santa out of the equation here) is concerning..because your whole argument on Santa, has nothing to do with Santa at all, if it did, you would argue that all child characters as whole need to be done away with because ... News Flash! children think they're real! and we tell them they are! each time we take them to Universal, Disney, Six Flags, Character tea parties, skating on ice, nickelodeon concerts, etc etc etc... but no..your argument is simply that human civilization is going down the tubes due to Santa? no, it's due to people having an extremely negative and narcissistic view on life..that no one can make a move into happiness in any way at all, less they offend someone. Thats whats going down the tubes. Your beef isn't with Santa, it's with life as a whole and I strongly suggest you possibly have yourself checked for some severe Depression. Not because you don't like Santa or don't like parent's teaching their children the tradition (and yes, it is tradition, it might not have gotten to the US till 1867...but he was around waaaaay before that in many other lands because as I've shown you.....St. Nicholas was an actual real person that did gain a following, especially in Germany) But because even without your Santa argument ... your outlook on life would be cause for anyone to worry. Heck, forget Santa..thats the least of your worries, I think you need to worry about yourself first.

You want to take away fantasy from children?

Jesus, man. What's wrong with you? Santa doesn't hurt anyone. The idea of a big fatty bringing presents from the North Pole to all the well behaved children is a great tool. The kids love the idea of Santa and parents can get their children to behave on occasion. What's the problem?

The boy is 5. He isn't 14 or 28. He is 5. A 5 year old believing in something beautiful is harmful how?
Has anyone ever grown up and suffered some sort of emotional problem due to Santa Klaus?

What exactly is your problem with children believing in fantasy?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Giving credit where credit is due... this thread inspired a debate in the ATS debate forum. So, whether you're pro Santa or all about the bah humbug - come get your debate forum carnage fix.

The bottom line as far as I can see is it does no harm. The OP claims that it causes children to distrust their parents and to think that dishonesty is a good policy... Well, there are many kids in my life and I have many friends as well....

No kid I have ever come across as lost trust for their parents when it comes to "the Santa myth" and they did not learn that telling lies was okay, either....

It's harmless fun...So let the kids have their fun!

It teaches children to give and to love and to do right by others.... If you find that harmful... Well, then I admit, a certain song comes to mind.

Merry Christmas boys and girls!

reply to post by Hefficide


I enjoyed your debate.

I would like to comment on the thread title, as this was a point of argument during your exchange. I wish aaadjensen had mentioned that the debate was painted from the start with a strong social bias, re: "humbug".

the conspiracy theorist in all of us ought to be wary of such powerful social bias.

So cynical. So cynical that for a week or two every year, you can't pretend?

Yes, Virginia...

"DEAR EDITOR: I am 8 years old.
"Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus.
"Papa says, 'If you see it in THE SUN it's so.'
"Please tell me the truth; is there a Santa Claus?

"VIRGINIA O'HANLON.
"115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET."

VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You may tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

I can't say it any better than this editorial response that's well over a century old...

Let it go? Why would I let the world become bleaker than it already is? It hurts no one, and may even help, contrary to all the amateur psychologists/sociologists here in...

A visit from St. Nicholas

Happy Christmas. ...and remember, Santa's watching. Be nice, not naughty.

Santa is real, hears the ATS truth!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by 1/2 Nephilim


Santa is part of the Magic of Christmas, there is nothing quite like it, the look on a Childs face when she wakes up and magically these gifts all appear.

Christmas has lost its meaning, its just another commercialised holiday but if you have kids say under the age of 8 or 9 I think you might understand the magic of it all.