Occupy Wall St protesters wipe $5m off America's debt

Occupy Wall St protesters wipe $5m off America's debt

www.telegraph.co.uk

Occupy Wall St protesters wipe $5m off America's debt
A group of campaigners linked to the Occupy Wall Street movement has raised enough cash to write-off $5m in "distressed" student loans and outstanding medical bills.

The campaigners founded the Rolling Jubilee project to buy-up distressed loans, where repayments are in arrears, for pennies in the pound and then cancel them free of charge to "liberate debtors at random". That debt will include large amounts of student loans and oustanding medical bills owed by people struggling to meet repayments.
Individuals or companies can buy d

(visit the link for the full news article)

why is debt cheep for everyone except the person in it?
and who could be offended by this selfless act?
WHY or HOW can you justify your outrage?

some say occupy has achieved nothing,
some say their actions are without merit,

well i say how many critics of occupy have removed $5 million dollars worth of debt from hanging over the heads of the people?

while some people cheer for the bank bailouts,
i cheer for the peoples bail out

and a new para dime of charity, where people realise that "its your fault for getting into debt" is really the opposite of true charity, and continues enslavement to debt, you see even "good hard-working folk" can fall into the trap (education + sickness) and only cold hearted people would say "let them suffer"

i say help your fellow man and women
and do not judge lest you be judged,

after all education and sickness is not a failure of the human condition

lack of empathy on the other hand, is a failure of the human condition
is the opposite of charty

xploder


www.telegraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Bit of a misnomer in the title, as this action wiped $5m off of selected Americans' debt, not the country.

For those who don't understand how it works, when a debt is turned over to a collection agency, they pay next to nothing (pennies on the dollar) for it and make their money by hounding the debtor until they pay back more than what the collection agency paid for it (technically, they can collect 100% of the amount owed, but rarely do.)

So, by setting oneself up as a "collection agency", one can buy someone's significant debt for next to nothing, and then just cancel it -- the person owes nothing, and the black mark on their credit report eventually goes away, as it will no longer be recorded.

Who makes up the difference between what was borrowed and what was paid by the "collection agency"? The lender takes a loss, and eventually gets it back by overcharging the rest of us.

On one level, commendable, as it helps someone being smothered by debt, on another level reprehensible, as it just sticks you and I with the original defaulter's bills.

I didn't think student loans were EVER written down or off.
They go after your taxes.

I had trouble paying my student debt- I mean - I had trouble PAYING it - I sent them money 3 different times and they kept holding it and then sending it back saying they could not find my account! In the meantime they were charging me interest and then fees! I didn't even KNOW they were holding it like that for 3 months when they started coming back.

I finally wrote the olmsbudsman and the IRS and asked them to PLEASE take my debt out of my taxes. They did and finally I got it paid off. IRS didn't seem to have ANY problem finding my account.

Only time the IRS ever did me a favor.

reply to post by adjensen


so you feel wronged because you perceive higher borrowing costs,
and you sight the "loss" the banks take?

i guess you are in the bail out the banks portion of the argument?

well if the "banks" would sell to a debt collector at the same price,
how can this cost you or the banks anything more than current practices?
after all the debt is still sold to a collector at the same rate

another point is that you claim a loss because "banks have to charge more" to cover the losses,
WHAT DO YOU THINK RISK IS?
and why do banks then charge INTEREST?

xploder

Originally posted by XPLodER
another point is that you claim a loss because "banks have to charge more" to cover the losses,
WHAT DO YOU THINK RISK IS?
and why do banks then charge INTEREST?

From those questions, it seems that you don't understand how American capitalism works, which I find surprising.

Yes, the bank takes a risk, but if the risk doesn't pay off and they get stiffed, do you believe that the CEO says "oh, darn, I'll forgo my bonus to cover that bad loan"? No, they just raise their fees and interest charged in order to cover their losses.

They win, you lose. That's the way it is, and likely the way it will stay -- when someone stiffs "the man", it isn't "the man" that get stuck with the bill, but the rest of us who do.

So, while it's swell that someone who couldn't pay back their student loan doesn't have it hanging over their head the rest of their lives, it's you and I (well, me, at the least,) that wind up paying for their education.

Doesn't the federal government alone generate like 170,000,000 of debt per hour?

From another thread; using the same tactic as the above poster's student load story:

In this case, the mortgage frauds the banks are pulling off; one of the family's who are resisting; 'Fort Hernandez'; an excerpt from their publicly released statement:

"We have elected to use our protected rights of freedom of speech to protest the fraudulent banking processes that led to our home being illegally foreclosed upon. Even with limited options, we refused to submit to something we knew was morally wrong and began to organize our family, friends and anyone willing and able to help.
Our family started to find ways to educate our community; not just about our unjust situation but the larger systems playing into it and a barricade was built in front of our home as an artistic display of resistance.
Our battle with the bank however extends past just these 50 days to five years ago when the bank adjusted our monthly payment rates from 3,900 to 4,500. Even with various members of our family contributing to the payments, the dramatic and sudden increase made it impossible to add into our budgets. When we called to ask for assistance, we were informed by Bank of America that the only people that were receiving assistance with their loans were homeowners who were behind on payments. We were painted into a corner where if we sought assistance- our only option was to allow ourselves to purposely fall behind on payments. During our five years of negotiations, we applied for four modifications and had all of them denied based on reasons that we knew were illegitimate. Also within the last five years, we have seen the bank implement specific practices to gain ammunition to slander our name and delegitimize our ownership of our home. For example; during this 5 year period of negotiations, every time our family wanted to make payments towards the loan, the bank refused to take them. The bank later used this lack of payments to justify the auction of our home from underneath us. While not taking payment may seem very strange, we later learned that this is a very common practice that many banks use during foreclosure processes. We also learned that there have been various fraudulent affidavits associated with the rejection of our loan modification paperwork. To put it bluntly, the bank wants us to lose our home because the profit they stand to make from collecting the insurance they leveraged against us is more than the payments we would be making. Again- both of these are common practices that banks even now are continuing to use with countless families across our country.
After our latest modification request was denied; the eviction notice was immediate despite the fact that our family submitted a QWR (Qualified Written Request) for proof of a written title that is still being investigated.
No family should ever have to lose their home because of the immoral and dishonest bank practices that our government continues to allow. This action has always been about educating each other. About empowering each other to stand up and knowing that we will have a community to stand with us. Despite what you think or how you have been told to feel- you can do something. We are peaceful, we are non-violent but we refuse to go down quietly. It is becoming increasingly necessary to build a culture of resistance. An organized community is a force to be reckoned with and that is why our family is being criminalized."

Link to fb page with the full statement www.facebook.com...


A lot of these foreclosures have been illegal and the only reason the banks got away with it is because the people left when they were told instead of staying and fighting.
In many cases, many of the banks cannot even produce the paperwork that proves ownership or what is owed or anything else, due to the mess of them selling them on to other banks and banks in other countries.
I saw a documentary on banks hiring people for hourly rates to forge bankers signatures on documents! So what kind of contracts are these banks actually trying to enforce?!? How can they possibly be considered to be legal documents? These are some of the shady and actually illegal things the banks are doing, and that's just what I've heard of.

Sorry! That is a pretty long, ugly (hard to read? not spaced well?) post up there! Sorry about that.

Also, I didn't even comment on the OP.

I love it! I think it's great! Like that movie with Emilio Estevez and Demi Moore, where they were robbing banks and burning the mortgages! Awesome! lol

reply to post by adjensen


do you hate the fact that some people are getting "debt relief"?
do you honestly think it is going to cost you more that these people debt is extinguished?

if you answer yes to either of these questions,
then you are the one who does not know how things work.

the debt in question would be sold NO MATTER WHAT,

and at the same rate NO MATTER WHO BUYS IT AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE

the fact the debt is discharged from existence, CANT AND WONT PUT UP YOUR BORROWING RATES

i think you hate the idea of someone benefiting from this AND ITS NOT YOU

you have no charity in your heart, as you can only see this from "how does this effect ME"

xploder

Originally posted by curiouscanadian777
Sorry! That is a pretty long, ugly (hard to read? not spaced well?) post up there! Sorry about that.

Also, I didn't even comment on the OP.

I love it! I think it's great! Like that movie with Emilio Estevez and Demi Moore, where they were robbing banks and burning the mortgages! Awesome! lol

i have heard this story many times, and my heart goes out to you.
many people who wanted morgage relief from banks were then targeted because the banks knew they were in distress.
many banks would "hold from making payments" and then charge "late fees",

some were told to "get into default" so their morgage could be altered only to find out that this lead to forclosure rather than modification.

makes me mad and sad at the same time

peace and light to you

xploder

reply to post by XPLodER


F&S for the OP Exploder, It's a good find and I couldn't agree with you more.

I don't know who came up with the idea, but I think it's great! Not only does this help those who are buried in debt, it also gives those pesky collection agencies some competition.

Originally posted by Flatfish
reply to post by XPLodER

 

F&S for the OP Exploder, It's a good find and I couldn't agree with you more.

I don't know who came up with the idea, but I think it's great! Not only does this help those who are buried in debt, it also gives those pesky collection agencies some competition.

if you find out whos idea it is please keep it quiet,
i know there was a group discussing it on ats a while back,
and occupy dedicated a group to exploring the idea.

credit is everyones in my humble opinion

xploder

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by XPLodER
another point is that you claim a loss because "banks have to charge more" to cover the losses,
WHAT DO YOU THINK RISK IS?
and why do banks then charge INTEREST?

From those questions, it seems that you don't understand how American capitalism works, which I find surprising.

Yes, the bank takes a risk, but if the risk doesn't pay off and they get stiffed, do you believe that the CEO says "oh, darn, I'll forgo my bonus to cover that bad loan"? No, they just raise their fees and interest charged in order to cover their losses.

They win, you lose. That's the way it is, and likely the way it will stay -- when someone stiffs "the man", it isn't "the man" that get stuck with the bill, but the rest of us who do.

So, while it's swell that someone who couldn't pay back their student loan doesn't have it hanging over their head the rest of their lives, it's you and I (well, me, at the least,) that wind up paying for their education.

Then you must have a debt if they're raising your rates and interest on loans, stop taking loans stop living beyond your means...Isn't that the argument you people like to use against those who were in debt. And don't use a bank they're fleecers anyway, Credit Union, I pay NO FEES! NONE!

Here's a list of credit unions in case anyone is interested
Credit Unions in the US

Originally posted by ldyserenity

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by XPLodER
another point is that you claim a loss because "banks have to charge more" to cover the losses,
WHAT DO YOU THINK RISK IS?
and why do banks then charge INTEREST?

From those questions, it seems that you don't understand how American capitalism works, which I find surprising.

Yes, the bank takes a risk, but if the risk doesn't pay off and they get stiffed, do you believe that the CEO says "oh, darn, I'll forgo my bonus to cover that bad loan"? No, they just raise their fees and interest charged in order to cover their losses.

They win, you lose. That's the way it is, and likely the way it will stay -- when someone stiffs "the man", it isn't "the man" that get stuck with the bill, but the rest of us who do.

So, while it's swell that someone who couldn't pay back their student loan doesn't have it hanging over their head the rest of their lives, it's you and I (well, me, at the least,) that wind up paying for their education.

Then you must have a debt if they're raising your rates and interest on loans, stop taking loans stop living beyond your means...Isn't that the argument you people like to use against those who were in debt. And don't use a bank they're fleecers anyway, Credit Union, I pay NO FEES! NONE!

Here's a list of credit unions in case anyone is interested
Credit Unions in the US

edit on 16-11-2012 by ldyserenity because: linky

Oh you didn't get the news letter? Everything should be free and no one should have any personal responsibility (let alone many people refuse to understand why university tuition is so high and will go higher as long as the government is involved in student loans)

reply to post by adjensen


You are almost totally correct, but I don't know why you say it's somewhat reprehensible of OWS. Since the debt has already been written off by the original lender, they have already taken steps to mitigate that loss by charging higher fees,interest, or whatever. All OWS has done is entered the bad debt market and is bidding against collection companies for it.

I find it a very Capitalistic and Libertarian method of doing good by an organization with strong Communistic and Progressive leanings. It's Capitalistic in that they are going into the bad debt market to acquire it. It's Libertarian in that it relies on Charity to raise funds instead of Government.

reply to post by jefwane


I totally agree.
OWS is actually doing something to help the people.
Considering the Fact that the Banks recieved a bailout from the Federal Government the banks should have wiped out that debt a long time ago, but instead they decide to charge twice;
1st taking the bailout monies, wich eventually comes from our taxes.
2nd continuing to charge and forclose on the bad debt they got the bailout monies for incuring.
Talk about eating your cake and having it too.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by XPLodER
another point is that you claim a loss because "banks have to charge more" to cover the losses,
WHAT DO YOU THINK RISK IS?
and why do banks then charge INTEREST?

From those questions, it seems that you don't understand how American capitalism works, which I find surprising.

Yes, the bank takes a risk, but if the risk doesn't pay off and they get stiffed, do you believe that the CEO says "oh, darn, I'll forgo my bonus to cover that bad loan"? No, they just raise their fees and interest charged in order to cover their losses.

actually from what I have learned in accounting classes, the debts are already considered a loss as the company assumes that they will never see a penny from the debtor. so by selling the debt ot a debt collector, they are actually making money that they never expected to see anyways.

also known as:

Bad Debts Account: An account in the nominal ledger to record the value of un-recoverable debts from customers. Real bad debts or those that are likely to happen can be deducted as expenses against tax liability (provided they refer specifically to a customer).

Bad Debts Reserve Account: An account used to record an estimate of bad debts for the year (usually as a percentage of sales). This cannot be deducted as an expense against tax liability.

www.accountz.com...

so companies not only plan for this bad debt, but they write it off as an expense against tax liability, then the sell it for a profit

reply to post by XPLodER


It's good to see OWS do this. I would donate to this cause. Any info on how to contribute? If this spreads it could be a game changer....

Here's the rub in my opinion. People go out and put themselves in debt for a wide variety of reasons...most of the time...stupid reasons. Education is different. I have an issue with the costs of an education these days...partly because I am paying for my daughters education and it is incredibly expensive. But also...if we as a species want to advance, we need to make education a given...it should somehow be based on merit and capacity to learn. I know a ton of folks with degrees hanging on their wall that are as dumb as a bag of hammers....sad but true.

Education ...maybe...should be a given for those that have the capacity to absorb it and grow our species....if you are a "lukewarm" candidate...then dig deep in the pockets....sure you can get that meaningless piece of paper but it is going to cost you to have that status symbol.

All of my kids (3) are being educated in the halls of higher learning...and it is costing every dime I have. Is it worth it?...yeah...to a point. I know they will never exceed my position without it...and that is crappy to me. I have a lame ass 2 year associate degree and some certificates of advanced studies but I also have 28 years of experience in the field I work in...I have actually taught classes at the local community college. Yeah...I am considered an "expert" in my field...go figure.

The debt of education is just not fair....the universities are fleecing their students. If you get an education in say....forensics (which is what my youngest is studying)...it costs a damn fortune. There is no practical way that a student can afford these things when they come out of school and get an internship. I am paying for it because I can...but that doesn't make it right. My daughter might one day be a crime solving super sleuth....but if she had this debt hanging over her head, she would be compromised financially....this is a problem. I will do whatever I can to help my children have it better than I did...but I have to say...from my point of view...there is something broken in the system. I have met the friends of all three of my daughters and some of them are just not that bright...I wonder how they make it.

If someone could swoop in and help eliminate some of the pain of a higher education...how damn wonderful is that? It is going to be hard for this generation of up and coming intellects...god help those that can't even consider a higher education.

Whoa...got kinda off topic there....sort of...

If someone is working to eliminate the pain of the average consumer...fine. I have often considered using my limited assetts to start a credit collection company just for this very thing. If I can buy up debt for pennies on the dollar and
forgive them...it is a win-win...I get to absolve someone's debt and can claim the losses of the purchase of that debt on my taxes....does no one see a pattern here?