Beta blockers are busted – what happens next?

reply to post by Maxmars


Maybe people are getting wise to the standard therapy/modern medicine scam. The treatment is more profitable than the cure.

Like any drug, one might work for one person, while the other may not. I had to go on a beta blocker because I have MVP causing tachycardia and anxiety attacks. The beta blocker changed my life and I felt so much better being on it.

reply to post by Maxmars


Wow, this is incredible... The publishment itself, but also the comment that products will not experience immediate cessation... Maybe I interpret this wrong, but it seems like there will be no major announcements made directly to the individuals who are currently taking the medicines for serious health conditions, such as blood pressure and heart disease.

I normally wouldn't think much about this, but my mom takes, and has taken, metoprolol for several years - to combat a blood pressure issue. She has 'episodes' where she will begin to cough for several seconds, out of the blue, and the Dr. has only said she suffers from mild Asthma.

He also told her those episodes could be related to bronchitis and any bronchial infections she had in years past. I thought it was a bad idea (I am not a Dr., but it just seemed like an odd reccomendation) when the Dr. suggested the use of 'Day-Quil' to help with cough suppression.

After searching for a bit - thanks to your thread - I learned that "Bronchospasm" is a direct side effect of beta-blockers... Metoprolol, the medicine prescribed to my mom. Through reading about bronchospasm , I learned that Phenylephrine can also be a contributing factor in the development and intensity of bronchospam - the same Phenylephrine that is a primary active ingredient in Day-Quil and many other common cold medicines available OTC (Over-the-Conter):

SOURCE

Bronchospasm are caused by a number of reasons. Lower respiratory tract diseases such as Pneumonia, Asthma, Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD), and Emphysema can result in contraction of the airways. Other causes are side effects of topical decongestants such as Oxymetazoline and Phenylephrine. Both of these medications activate Alpha 1 adrenergic receptors that result in smooth muscle constriction. Non-selective Beta blockers are known to cause bronchospasm as well. Beta blockers bind into the β2 receptors and block the action of Epinephrine and Norepinephrine from binding to its receptors, causing shortness of breath.

Thanks for taking the time to post this thread.... had you not posted it, I may have never known this and my mom may have never known either - considering the news will not result in immediate cessation of the prescriptions and a Dr. who apparently doesn't know the side effects of the drug and other OTC drugs.

I also want to add, because I believe your thread may have helped more than you or I realize, my mom had complained about being cold, when the temperature is comfortable to everyone else. She would often complain about cold feet, etc.

Thankfully she is not over-weight and, aside from her elevated blood-pressure, she is in excellent health - with no history of family health issues on her side of the family tree.

I mentioned this because there is reference to increased risk of developing adult diabetes, which most of us know is so much more serious than it is presented. I can't be certain she was experiencing signs of adult onset diabetes, but it is great to have an awareness of what her medications are commonly associated with.

Knowing these symptoms and their relationship to her medical regimine is very powerful knowledge and gives us the ability to address these issues immediately.

Moving forward, this knowledge and awareness could make all the difference in her health, because it is so much better to see a poisonous snake in the grass BEFORE it bites you!

Again, Thank You So Much for making this thread!

Originally posted by esteay812
Thanks for taking the time to post this thread.... had you not posted it, I may have never known this and my mom may have never known either - considering the news will not result in immediate cessation of the prescriptions and a Dr. who apparently doesn't know the side effects of the drug and other OTC drugs.

Well, you don't know it NOW, either. Reread your external quote...you'll see the part about non-selective beta blockers causing bronchospasm in some people. However, metoprolol is a selective beta blocker and does not block beta-2 receptors.

That's the selective part, you see - if it blocks both beta-1 and beta-2 receptors, it's non-selective. If it only blocks beta-1 or only beta-2 receptors, then it's selective. Like metoprolol. Metoprolol only binds to beta-1 receptors. No asthma. No cough.

reply to post by esteay812


You are very kind, and very welcome!

Please remember this thread; nor anything here about, is a substitute for a meaningful sit-down with your favorite medical professional (hopefully, one who actually cares enough to discuss the particulars with you and your mom; rather than simply tell you 'not to worry' and scratch out another prescription.)

My deepest concern is that medical professionals, and scientists, appear to believe themselves to be 'beyond' the effects of marketing techniques.... and when something like these two studies surface, rather than commit themselves to review the matter thoroughly, we are treated to odd reactions and "but the article said..." comments - as if the article were an unimpeachable substitute for the study itself - rather than the product of the industry's own supporters in media.

I have learned that beta-blockers have their uses... but ensuring that you won't die of some blood-flow related cardiac event is not one of them... despite that being the most prominent 'reason' offered by the industry to ensure it's continued long-term use. I also learned that despite the known unpleasant reactions and adverse developments it might create for some patients.... the publishers of this article feel comfortable metaphorically patting us on the head and proclaiming how 'harmless' it is.

As for those of you advising alternative treatments... I can only say... not without consulting your doctor first... believe it or not, they are not all whores for Big Pharma... and surprisingly, they don't get to see much of the material which might dissuade them from buying into the marketing... (because no one will give it to them along with free pens, calendars, and chachkas.)

reply to post by Maxmars


Oh, beta blockers do work for lowering blood pressure. Metoprolol definitely does.

reply to post by Flux8


I will not tell anyone not to take their meds, Some people can take them with no problems, those with a higher metabolism. I can state where the knowledge of the pharmacuticals originated though, can't I?

I have no choice of taking Beta blockers anymore, the doctors records say I am allergic to them. I'm not going to go to another doctor and say I have never taken beta blockers and kill myself either. I never told the doctors I was allergic to Beta blockers, they told me. They also told me I am allergic to all epileptic drugs and they can't help me, I tried them all, I lost all my teeth from erupting, almost lost my feet, screwed up my intestines, had Lympopathy, Calcified a big chunk of my liver, screwed up the kidneys,and a few other problems. Am I going to go to a different neurologist and lie and try it again? NO, I trust the doctors who made these diagnoses. I had to find natural cures for these diseases, I had no choice. That entailed researching the origin of the Pharmaceutical drugs throughout history. I found the answers to what I was allergic to in the medications as well. I also found which foods contains these same allergens naturally. I cannot consume the foods containing the same chemistry as in the meds that I was allergic to long term either, I tested this and found that this metabolic syndrome applies to foods also. Does it mean I have to roll over and die since I can't take their meds? Hell no, I'm a survivor not a quitter.

reply to post by Maxmars

Beta blockers are busted – what happens next

We use ACE inhibitors and Calcium channel blockers instead.

Originally posted by Matriculated
I was on them for a few years. I was always skeptical of their "treat everything" use. For one... the pills/amounts prescribed are often so small. It's hard to imagine them being able to have a large effect.

I am very interested in this study because the conventional wisdom for at least ten years is that if you quit beta blockers after being on them a while, well... look out! And the evidence that you will suffer without them has been presented 100x before. So who's lying?

Oh my. PILL SIZE has nothing to do with EFFICACY or POTENCY.

Its not the size of the pill, its (FILL IN BLANK HERE) that matters.

Originally posted by Shaxuul
I have a heart condition. My cardiologist prescribed me Propranolol 12 years ago to help treat my arrhythmia called Atrial Fibrillation (w/rapid ventricular response). A very chaotic, disorganized heart rhythm. So, I've had my fair share of chaotic episodes of tachycardia / palpitations. After I take Propranolol, my heart slows way down, and it quickly converts back to a normal sinus rhythm soon after. So, I don't want to hear a bunch of crap that beta blockers "don't work." I've been taking one for 12 years now, and notice first-hand what they do. Haven't experienced ANY of those melodramatic side effects listed...

edit on 13-11-2012 by Shaxuul because: (no reason given)

Good idea. Don't take medical advice from ATS. Take it from a board-certified physician who is up on the latest academic results.

Here is the article: jama.jamanetwork.com...

For example, the article actually discusses only beta blockers in CAD--coronary artery disease. You have a different condition.

reply to post by soficrow


I'm going to study this but I have things to do before the snow flies. I read a few articles but I think it is going to take a couple hundred articles to totally understand this and tie it into my present knowledge. I have to find the exact way this happens and translate it into laymans terms. I can't explain it to the people I know if I do not translate it, they know nothing of those scientific words, if I can translate it into cooking practices and food choices with evidence as to why then it may make it less intimidating. I don't want to alienate my friends by talking over their heads..

Don’t want to get to drawn into this thread but I just noticed that the research isn’t saying “beta-blockers don’t work” its seems to be saying that there is no evidence that they significantly increase the life expectancy of individuals on the drugs for cardiac conditions.



Please, the layman needs to be very cautious when trying to interpret academic journals that is anything to do with health care, it takes a level of knowledge to comprehend them. On first view of this I thought it was saying that they didn’t work for control of hypertension. Just to be clear this evidence is not saying beta-blockers don’t work only that they do not significantly increase life expectancy for people with cardiac conditions.


Just wanted to point that out just so that people don’t read this and go “hey looks like my Alprenolol doesn’t work anymore” and ends up with a hypertensive crisis.


Beta-blockers do work they just don’t increase your life expectancy for individuals with Coronary Arterial Disease (CAD). That is what this research was looking at.


Also a note to the OP, I commend you for using academic(ish) sources but you mentioned the adverse effects of beta-blockers. All drugs have side effects, don’t be shocked by this your oppening comments are misleading. I am assuming you have not read the actual research itself.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


I read it that way also. It doesn't say Beta blockers don't work. I know Beta blockers work personally, but I had long term problems taking them. I should talk to my doctor about getting some Inderol for emergencies. It works fast if I were to get an attack. I can take almost any med for a couple of weeks but not longer than that. Many people can take them for years with no problem, it depends on everyone individually. Your doctor should be informed before making dietary changes if you are on meds so they can monitor the meds for a while. Increasing foods with natural beta blockers when you are on beta blockers will increase the dose in your system. Beef is high in natural Beta blockers, starting to eat more beef can cause problematic dose reactions. People on meds need to speak with their doctors before trying anything.

reply to post by rickymouse


Glad I am not the only one, It does appear that the OP is saying “beta-blockers don’t work” as in beta-blockers won’t reduce blood pressure. However there is nothing in the evidence to back up this claim, this evidence I saying that in individuals with CAD beta-blockers will not significantly increase your life expectancy.

I personally think its corporately irresponsible of ATS to have a forum like this, it’s actually quite dangerous to have people post a thread like this. It’s not beyond the realms of imagination that an individual reading this might stop taking the medication, and in a few weeks have a massive CVA. Probably the only criticism I would really have of ATS I must say though.

I have been on the suckers for 20 years plus some, they are not only for high blood pressure and irregular heart beat.
Myself suffer from low blood pressure due to an enlarged heart with extra beats.
From what I have re-searched they do indeed help with the "fight or flight syndrome"
With my loose heart any upbeat in heart beats means a lot of banging going on in my chest.

On the other hand I would really like to take two less pills per day here but there is always the will to live and that means I am nervous about discontinuing the Beta blockers.


To the OP S&F
I better get back to my research on this subject.

Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by rickymouse


Sounds good. Also - did you check the 'binders' and additives in your meds as possible allergens? (Something a pharmacist flagged for me.)

ON TOPIC: Like most drugs, beta-blockers are viewed as a 'one-size-fits-all' miracle cure. Wrong. People are extremely individual and one size does NOT fit all. ...One of the main reasons I push "personalized medicine."

reply to post by Bedlam


Well, I have to say I can not take your advice on this. Maybe if the medical consequences, originating from a supposed safe drug, didn't effect me or my immediate family - maybe then I would not worry about the effects of the drug.

This is especially so when considering the situation we are dealing with here. The drug was thought to be a great tool for stabilizing health issues among patients, but we are now learning they are completely wrong about that. This is why I can not be OK with it, after learning the new information out there.

Selective or non-selective, it doesn't change the fact that the medical community blew it on this one and did so for years. Knowing this to be fact and knowing the toporol IS a beta-blocker, I am taking no chances.

She is going to the Dr. on Friday, to talk to the Dr.... After I showed her this, she wants to check it out fast and is considering an alternative medicinal regimine that doesn't involve beta-blockers, selective or non.

I'll let you know how her asthma and bronchospasm responds to the change of toporol levels in her chemistry.

reply to post by Maxmars


I agree... one thing I am certain to tell people is the same thing you just told me. If what I say deals with anything medicinal, I make sure they understand I am no Dr. - far from it - and they should talk to their family dr. if they want to learn more.

The good thing about the thread is not so much the medical advice, but the awareness of how effective this drug is. Without this thread it is safe to say I would not know about it and I would have certainly never had the opportunity to alert her.

She is going to the Dr. to check it out in a couple days. I'll pop back in here and let you know what they tell here.

This news may be a major hit to the manufacturer of the drug. Even though there are different sub-classes within the drug type, with some of those may have no adverse side effects, many people will shy away from Beta-Blockers in general.

It is just hard to trust the medical community, relative to BB's, after learning about their ineffectiveness.

Originally posted by esteay812


reply to post by Bedlam

 

Well, I have to say I can not take your advice on this. Maybe if the medical consequences, originating from a supposed safe drug, didn't effect me or my immediate family - maybe then I would not worry about the effects of the drug.

To each his own, but metoprolol does not cause bronchospasm, that's your misreading of the insert.

Also, the JAMA report is referring to beta blocker therapy for long term ischemia, not for arrhythmia or blood pressure reduction. Beta blockers are not used that often FOR long term ischemia, as the preferred course of action is bypass, stents or angioplasty.

Metoprolol is outstandingly safe. The bogeyman attributes you assigned to it when you misread the insert are not there, because you don't understand the drug or the systems it affects. However, by insisting to your physician that your mother be immediately removed from it due to your inability to read the insert may result in her being placed on another anti-arrhythmic or anti-hypertensive that is not as side-effect free as metoprolol.

Tying your doc's hands often leads to her/his having to choose a secondary set of meds they might not have considered safe or as effective.

Good luck. Hopefully she won't have any of the side effects of whatever med you force her onto.

reply to post by soficrow


Actually you hit it right on the head. The part I seem to be partly allergic to is the part they put in meds so people don't have histamine reactions to them. It is also present in many vitamin pills. It is classified as some sort of a chitinase I think. This adds to the problems encountered with the medicine itself. Any med that suppress the P450 enzymes cause problemsin my family. They kick in my hereditary disease, acute intermittent porphyria. As long as I ate the right foods the porphyria usually didn't bother me before but since the long term meds I am much more prone to attacks now. At least I identified this problem and I can help my kids and grandchildren to avoid ever having to deal with the disease manifesting. I know most of my families medical history, this condition is so evident that I can't believe that doctors did not discover it in my relatives. I'm glad I have a strong set of morals, I kept everything somewhat together while on those meds, I could have easily snapped . I never want to go through anything like that again.