The Meaning of SEX

Or the sex drive is suppressed, aggression is increaced, and the people hate the "enemy" all the more, and do not ask questions.

XAOS

Dragonrider, you TOTALLY Misinturpreted 1984's usage of Sex.

The Anti-Sex league was full of WHORES!!!!!

The whole basis of sex in 1984 was to show that sex without meaning was a tool that the state could use to further control people.

Remember 1984 is full of oxymorons too, hence why the Anti-Sex league was full of whores who lost their virginity at like 12.

Remember also that adultery was very acceptable in 1984 society. Big Brother made every available outlet of love...kids, marriage, and sex, a burden unless you did the following for each.

Feared your kids.

Hated your spouce.

And fuked for fun.

With those 3 things the government controlled the will of the people in 1984 stronger then any of its propoganda, stronger even then hate week.

Remember one of Winston's realizations is that you could have sex for more reasons then just to have it.

HKoT:

Oh I totally agree, 1984 was an exercise in contradictions as you mention. However, I was talking about the actual intent of the control of sex in that society.

I agree, there were multiple instances of corruption among the anti-sex league, but the base intention was to controll the basic human instinct. Remember, the ones who were having sex was the inner party members, the lower party members got arrested if they were caught in the act. True, the proles were not affected by this, and indeed they were fed sexual material as an oppiate, but then the government basically considered the proles subhuman. The lower party was what they considered the main danger, as they comprised the more intelligent population.

Yes but don't you see the effects of the control of sex on that society?

No one was "sexually frustrated" it was quite the opposite, they got all the sex they could ever ask for, and if their assigned wife didn't give them enough or assigned husband, they just went to some hooker prole down in the slums.

Winston was different because he didn't like sex with his wife like he should have, he didn't love her, but he didn't eventually love that ex Anti-sex girl *forget her name* and he liked it with her.

That I think is the actual statement...but of course I have a saying.

"Write anything without meaning and others will make a meaning for it!"

So I suppose one could inturpret it differently but I think Orwell believed that "sex for fun" was a way the government can control society.

I can just see the "military industrial complex" laughing in their high towers when Hippies were saying "Make love not war" and having sex to be "rebellious".

Look at today's society, it's such a sexfested whore house, we're more busy suing eachother in divorce suits and being thrown in jail for "sexual harrasment" *which makes no sense because all everyone wants these days is sex sex sex* that none of us see that our freedoms are being pulled out from under us like a carpet in a cartoon.

One thing's for sure, we'll sure end up spread eagle on the floor.

I wish I could remember; but I seem to recall that it's something to do with filling the time between the end of the cricket season and the start of the football season.
I believe that statistics for monthly birthrates will back me up on this.
I'm going to try to rmember again: or maybe I'll use Encarta.
It certainly sounds pretty scary. I cannot believe it will replace Scrabble.
Is it taxed?

Actually we should make a thread devoted to 1984 discussion, because I don't see the lower party members as having been the "danger" at all. The government controlled the lower party more strongly then the proles, they just knew that the proles would never rise up because they were so impoverished. remember winston reflecting on how the proles would have more strength then all of Big Brother, if they'd just take all that vigor in fighting over bread, to fighting the government?

Are we talking about your personal reminises on sex here Est I agree, I don't think sex will ever replace scrabble, or cricket!

I have to applaud the writers in this thread. When the thread appeared I never bothered to read it thinking it was going straight down the gutter, but Magestica has done a marvelous job of rescuing it and keeping it on track.

Sex is not just a bodily function there is a spiritual component to it, you never forget the first person you have sex with.

In some ways its a curse on our society, Freudian overtones have destroyed it and made it into a selling tool. Far from being the personal sacred gift it is its become just another commodity to be sold, used and exploited.

I hate the acute sexualization of our society as magestra said in her first post, it has been hyped into something that is not true.

Originally posted by Estragon
I wish I could remember; but I seem to recall that it's something to do with filling the time between the end of the cricket season and the start of the football season.

It certainly sounds pretty scary. I cannot believe it will replace Scrabble.
Is it taxed?

[Edited on 3-5-2003 by Netchicken]

having sex for the first time at twelve doesn't mean you're a whore; it means your parents are incompetent. i lost my virginity too early, and it didn't kill me and i didn't run around having sex willy-nilly. i don't have kids living with adopt-o-parents or even worse. i turned out just fine.

HKot don't be so hard on women. i think whore is nasty and offensive and misused in this instance. it's hard being a girl. men are constantly out to snatch your cookies sometimes even before your are old enough to know that your cookies are too precious to just give away.

No Saphroina they were whores in 1984, not "willingly" but that's what they were.

They were called virginal and part of the 'Anti-sex' league but they were all being screwed by everyone in the top of the government...the "Upper Party".

I want to personally address each and every one of you that's for sure so here ya go~

~Astro~ And thank you for sharing your lovely meaning of sex/making love/love...very enlightening to say the least and yes I'm so looking forward to the day...

~VzH~welcome to the board and if you're going to say "I love sex" well you may as well elaborate...because this thread isn't in all essence about really "love it or not" it's more about MEANING to you...

~Xaos~ wow! you're only 15...*remembering those days* anyway you seem very mature for your age in some of your post...and right now, I wouldn't advise thinking about sex, as 15 is just too young for "those" thoughts...

~Thomas~ He he! Yeah he makes us look and feel very ancient, but his day is coming..

~Gazrok~if you both want it and agree on it..then go for it!! But my thoughts about "sharing" are if you are with you're soulmate who you've longed for sooooo long and FINALLY they enter your life...I would want only to focus every bit of energy, sexual or not, completely on them...and I'm sorry, I'm greedy...I'm not into "sharing the wealth" per say. My opinion is this-if you love someone, mind, body and soul...then nothing or noone should ever come between that, my thoughts alone would be aiming to please the love of my life. Like I said thou...if you both agree, then go for it...just make sure it IS infact what you both want and will expect...I assume after you were to "do" this for the first time, there may be some awkwardness involved, and perhaps even some guilt? And THAT is definately something to consider before-hand..

~Dragon~ I'm kinda confused why you added this to this thread I'm sure you meant no harm, but as I stated in my opening post here, I WANT personal feelings and meanings about this, not some time frame or book or whatever...this adds only confusion to the topic at hand-and even creates some anger for other fellow posters(as already stated by some after your post) and to include myself...this really isn't all about a debate here...because in a sense it can't be debated-it's too personal for that, catch my drift? So please, let's not sway away from the initial meaning of the thread...this is very important to me..Thank you much

~HKoT~please read the above addressed to Dragon, this isn't about "debate" really it's about personal meaning and learning. So saying what you've said about "whores" and all is only disrespecting our other fellow posters and me. If you have nothing "personal" to add, simply don't post in this thread...makes sense to me

Now to the both of you..I'm not angry..see...

~Estragon~ I'm sorry I know nothing of the book and by the looks of it...could really careless. So I really didn't understand what you were saying towards it..glad to see you made it to this thread none the less

~Netchicken~ thank you, thank you for your lovely thoughts and words here!! Very true indeed...sex is meant to be sacred to us...but has become somewhat-even maybe always has been-somewhat of a curse to us all..

~Saph~ I can completely understand you're thoughts towards some of the latter posts here...And hopefully we can get it back on track as of now..noone should make us feel guilty by when, where and who we choose to have sex with...being a "whore" is a state of mind..PERIOD, if you feel like one then well perhaps you are one(and NO this is not geared towards you) more geared towards the issue that was brought up with that dern book and all..k? Noone, author or not has any right to judge someone by the sexual life-style we choose, and definately they have no right to label anyone by their personal choices about it..like I said if you feel like you are easy then maybe you are...if you feel like you are making the right decisions then who is anyone else to say you aren't? As we can clearly read here...sex has many different meanings to all of us, yet they kind of all join together to complete the "true" meaning of sex/making love...and that was the "intention" behind this thread to begin with...not to turn it dirty or feeling attacked by another because of our views..and acts

~Now to address everyone and add yet more "personal" thoughts here~
Thank you to all who have clearly maintained respect with this thread and maturity..you don't even know how good that makes me feel about each and every one of you!! We all have hearts and feelings as shown here through our words.
I guess for me it's the reality of turning 30 and going through my second divorce that really prompted me to start this. We are not having sex anymore since we decided on the divorce, but it is tough as we are still residing under the same roof and all, and we both have the desire for it-that much wasn't lost on my 30th birthday heh!- But I'm not interested what so ever in sleeping with him anymore..not that it wasn't good-infact it was and has always been, between him and I. Perhaps the ONLY reason we even lasted nearly 3 years in this "marriage"...and I'm being completely serious when I say that. He still wants to have sex and infact asks me nearly every day now and even several times a day. I've explained to him I just wouldn't feel right about it, as it would add too much confusion perhaps only on my part..but that he needs to respect my wishes with this and he continues to prove that he can't by continually badgerring me about it. And I've actually become quite annoyed and justified-even, in my many reasons for asking him for this divorce. So there ya have it..my sex life null and void for nearly two months...yet theres a man who is willing right here but my mind says no, it would be wrong...
So the moral of the story is...even though we are sexual beings and we know it's something we can and will enjoy, it's not always the best thing to do for our minds. And is nothing to really feel guilty about whether we choose to or not. Our decisions are based on we think is right or wrong for the moment we are in and that moment is always subject to change..
Magestica

Sex,

Reproduction- possibly, eventually you want kids, then again, once you have them you can't get rid of them for 20 years.

Pleasure- A definet yes, its an incentive for reproduction, God bless God

Love- Word has no definition, maybe its the warm felling inside, or maybe ate to much clams?

Chemical- Absolutely, Estrogen and Testostiron. God bless the most important chemicals.

Homosexuallity- serves no real purpose in the long run, but hey, it goes through the same process as Heterosexuallity, but its the little differences. Like procreation.

[Edited on 5/3/2003 by FoxStriker]

Well here's a personal feeling then.

A lot of people even good people, still must control themseves better with sex, its become too much the "Pass time of America."

I think our Great Grandfathers would spit on most of us for a myriad of ways we act, just think if they knew our personal lives.

How do you know our grandfathers and even great granfathers didn't DO alot of what people do today? I think if anything we've just become more open about what we do in our bedrooms...I really don't think it's changed that much though IMHO...
Don't we learn and get alot of our info from the generations behind us and so on....?
Magestica

What exactly has happened since I've been away?!
Is this ATS?, or did I stumble...

..if ATS is an acronym for "about the sex"!!! But sex does tie in to this stuff. Just ask any old "Jethro" who's been abducted and probed. "First thing they wanna do when they get ya is...well you know."

TMI
ASTRO!
I really don't need to hear or read about your fantisies.


I am staying away from this thread...I know this ain't ATS as I remember it.



LoL

You have to realize that one of the reasons that our ancestors were much more "moral" than modern people is because they didnt have any of the benefits that we have now. They didnt have contraceptives, waterbeds, funky lights, all of the things that make sex all the more better. In the 1860s if you knocked up someone out of marriage then you were screwed (ignore the pun). Hence the proverbs and religous laws prohibiting adultery.

Now we do not need to be as strict, so long as we are careful, and why should sex not be a "national pastime?" Violence certainly is, and wouldnt the world be a better place if we all f---ed rather than fought? Certainly lead to a lot more love and friendship.

Come on man, you've only got about twenty more years of active life, enjoy it, it is all you've got. Sex is natural thing much more than hate.

XAOS

If you give in to indulgence your social behavior becomes drastically worse. Lust can be as much an effect of anti-social behavior, as much as a cause for it.

Civilization wasn't meant to be a society of rampant sex and multiple partners, that was what societies with few men and little structure had.

Today's society, well rather, a free society, must have morals, and family values.

Something that a sex maniac or multiple partners, does not allow.

Most of all there needs to be Family Values, but what values, what family is there, if everyone is sleeping around with anyone? Or the teenagers no longer listen to their parents, they just screw at 15.

The loss of morality means enslavement.

I thought I could get an australian perspective with the meaning of sex with my new avatar.

Do you think it captures the right image?

Chris

Three littles which do much harm: a little of bad disposition, a little of injustice, a little of negligence.

Three monstrous things in the world: a youth without civility , a woman without dignity , and a man without conscience.

The Three highest causes of the upright human: Honour, Duty and Truth.

Man is three things; Who we think we are, who others think we are, and who we really are.

From what I've seen, the problem with people is they don't seem to even know who they are. Perhaps family traditions and even spending time together can help one find self identity.