Putting An End To The Carl Sagan Legacy

reply to post by AthlonSavage




I love how people like to throw random words like "Satan around"

@ Phantom - Apology accepted.

@ Tenth - Those works do not discuss Sagan but discuss the CFR, you must have mis-read my post.

Also Tenth, I keep "Hiding" my banner as its enlarged to advertise the broadcast, put it keeps popping back, can I get it gone for longer? lol

reply to post by Sinny


This is a pretty poor effort in ending Sagan's legacy, honestly you sound like the thousands of other mindless sheep who fear his advocation of the use of critical thinking on the subject.

It's ok though, his legacy has in fact waned in the last few years, what with the onset of the "youtube" generation and the like, you should be proud because your types have made UFOlogy a joke once again.

Sinny, do you understand what "Poisoning the Well" means? Or even plain old "Ad Hominem"?

If you wish to avoid being labelled with those, please post your VERY BEST example of irrefutable scientific evidence for alien visitation, and then explain how Sagan was at fault or was deliberately misleading and let's debate that.

In other words, have the intestinal fortitude to be specific, rather than this 'guilt by association' handwaving.

reply to post by CHRLZ


I know where your coming from, but it is not my duty to point people to truth, I have seen it, and educated my self on the irrefutable evidence. It is there. People need to be encouraged to seek the truth them selves.

reply to post by Sinny


What truth are you talking about? you keep saying if people only knew the truth about Sagan...then pleass tell us this truth that your hiding?

If people want to study any figure in history...im pretty sure they will find something to hold agaisnt them.

Some say Hittler was a good guy, some say bad

this just sounds like a character assassination.

Originally posted by Sinny
reply to post by Aliensun

 

Exactly, he was a moral sell out.

So getting people aware of the universe and stars is a moral sell out..

wow..just wow..

Is is perfectly legit to be very skeptical, and possibly even publicly state that the entire UFO phenomenon is BS.

Why?

Because fact is, aside from some flimsy evidence and hear-say, we DO NOT have hard proof that UFOs (as in ET craft etc.) do actually exist. If this were the case, this forum wouldn't exist, we would KNOW about ET craft, Aliens and UFOs and not have heated debated pro/against about them.

There MIGHT even be a likelihood that ALL the cases are hoaxes, lies, scams, misinformation, ignorance whatever. Until PROVEN, this could very well be the case. I do NOT share this very same view, but this does not mean i would call everyone who is a "die-hard" skeptic and says UFOs/Aliens are BS a "disinfo agent". They have their right to state their opinion.

My very own, "amateurish" interest in the subject for many years also made me MUCH more skeptical. I can see that a "serious" scientist at some point might come to the conclusion there is not much to the phenomenon. A scientists is used to go with "facts". In the area of UFOs..the problem is..there is very little.

Originally posted by Sinny
reply to post by CHRLZ

 

I know where your coming from

Yes, clearly you do. That's why you have run away and backed down. For you have absolutely nothing but a handwaved ad hominem.

but it is not my duty to point people to truth

No, of course not. Besides, the truth does not support you.

I have seen it, and educated my self on the irrefutable evidence.

But 'it' is not worthy of being spoken of here? You aren't willing to step up to the plate, despite starting this thread? It's pretty obvious why.

People need to be encouraged to seek the truth them selves.

The truth does not come from posts like yours.

Originally posted by thedoctorswife

 

 

I didn't get a chance to see what you wrote, but I'm going to assume you bashed me for not connecting C. Sagan ( a science guy) to a think tank specializing in U.S. foreign policy. Why would I make that connection?

For those of you that don't know what CFR stands for (and has nothing to do with science):

From Wikki: The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is an American nonprofit, nonpartisan membership organization, publisher, and think tank specializing in U.S. foreign policy and international affairs. Founded in 1921 and headquartered at 58 East 68th Street in New York City, with an additional office in Washington, D.C., the CFR is considered to be the nation's "most influential foreign-policy think tank".[1] It publishes a bi-monthly journal, Foreign Affairs.

CFR

reply to post by Sinny


Some of the quality researchers in the field have asserted that Sagan was a paid government disinfor shill.

I don't have links. One of those data bits that's lodged in with millions of other bits.

I think Stanton Friedman either strongly suspects that or is convinced of it, for one.

I certainly am.

He HAD to know given the circles he floated in . . . it was his 'assignment,' as it were.

reply to post by Sinny


First off it is spelled stupid, he was neither ignorant nor a disinfo guy. He was a man of logic and reason, clearly something you severely lack in your life.

Life exists in the universe, but it is not visiting us. Use logic and reason, aliens would gain no benefit from probing a world like ours (one of many)
Do you stop by every ant hill, you happen to walk by? Of course not.

Your mentality relating to Sagan is similar to those to see astrophysicists as aliens due to the fact most of their "science talk" is beyond their mediocre comprehension. Television warps your minds to these delusions, i bet you are American. Not yourself, your system failed you as it failed alot of people. You distrust the government completely, there is no reasoning with you.

Ats has gone downhill, they lack credibility and have failed to bolster my imagination which is why i joined in the first place. I feel bad for anyone who takes this seriously.

reply to post by rabzdguy


They are scared of reason and logic, they are schizophrenic. Let them live their delusion, their lives are meaningless to which they will live their lives and die and be replaced by young generations with hopefully logic and reason by their side.

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


I don't see where he always worked with cold hard facts . When he was called for his outrageous statements he basically threw in a few hundred million years or his trade mark Billion years to facilitate his statement as fact . Naturally no one was going to wait around to see if the prescribed time would yield the answer . I believe the scientific community did not want to cross him , he was too big and respected and might get your grant cancelled .

reply to post by Sinny


I'm not sure what level of exposure you've had to Mr. Sagan, but you should read some of his books. Carl Sagan desperately wanted to find evidence of life on other planets and spent a great deal of his life doing so. SETI was his project. As much as he wanted to believe, he remained a true scientist and looked for facts to back up a claim. He was also very concerned about where the world was headed. As each generation passes, we are more and more reliant on technology and science, yet the majority of the people do not understand it, which is a dangerous situation. I highly recommend reading "The Demon Haunted World: Science As A Candle in the Dark".

I was not aware that he was a member of the CFR, and that is unfortunate, but I do not believe it necessarily means he was like-minded with them. I have from time to time wondered if he was complicit in some of the coverups that have gone on, working closely with NASA, etc... But most likely it would have been a case of not being allowed to say anything rather than him being corrupt. I recall in one of his books he talked about smuggling books into Russia regarding it's true history which was being suppressed there at the time. He took them to give to some of his friends there.

He is an excellent communicator and educator. I've always enjoyed his books.

*I'm sorry if you do not know how to spell. Truly, charade, and of course, stupid. However, if you are doing it on purpose, I think that is even worse. That is the intentional destruction of the language.

reply to post by jiggerj

The CFR is an organization to forward new ideas to further the New World Order . It does not matter how you dress it up . It is a Globalist Organization .

reply to post by tothetenthpower

There was such a time when the CFR was a voice of reason and peace within foreign relations and providing insight to governments and leaders.

Ahhhh....
then I woke up and smelt the coffee....

There was a time when pigs flied as well, depends on who you talk to.

reply to post by Sinny


The whole point of Sagan was to make us believe we're the only ones floating in space in a tiny blue dot, we're insignificant, they're not up there mining resources, we can't get there, it's too far, there's no one else there, we're an accident, we've never had, have, or will have the technology that can reach the stars......

That's what I get from Sagan, that's the bitter taste the Cosmos leave after viewing.

CFR- Enemy organization.
Carl Sagan (may he rest in pieces) - Disinfo agent.

Of course I can't prove that and the man is not here to defend himself, but if you're a member of the Crips gang, that means you're a Crip.

Walks like a duck all that, yea.

Originally posted by Sinny

I love how people like to throw random words like "Satan around"

I love how people throw statements like "irrefutable evidence" when no such thing exists in this case.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
I don't see where he always worked with cold hard facts . When he was called for his outrageous statements he basically threw in a few hundred million years

And now, I'm calling YOU on your outrageous statements.

1. Give your very best examples of Sagan's 'outrageous' statements.

2. Then, show how he later added on the 'few hundred million years' in order to justify them.

Cites and references will be required.

I'll be waiting..

reply to post by Dr Cosma


Someone talking sense aha. Yes, I also believe Friedman was of the same.

To everybody else who has stated I'm an American, illogical, satanist - LMAO.

I'm the one who is dillusioned? You know, I post provocative things that go against the status quo for two reasons, 1) I believe in them, 2) to get all your reactions. They do amuse me.

SETI was his baby, precisley, where has SETI got us? Your telling me for all their efforts they can't locate one of the millions of space ships that are buzzing around our planet daily? I did state I'm not here to convince the skeptics, so this thread is on the premise that aliens are here.

Proof, proof, proof, if it is *really* demanded just to prove my point, I ask for 2 weeks to compile my *proof*...

Although I really doubt it is needed, for now, I offer you washington 52'... And will accepts all reasonable explanations, that *dis-prove* the were intelligently controlled UFO's.

As for everybody commenting on my spelling, *stoopid* is correct, its a little habit I gained from one of my ex's, and in regards to "charade"... My cousin in the same room convinced me it was "s"...

But, nevermind, illogical Satanists are far to lazy to check the dictionary... I'm too busy summoning Demons.