Putting An End To The Carl Sagan Legacy

Over the last few months I saw a handful of threads regarding Carl Sagan and his "legacy".

Many people *admire* this man for his "contribution" to science, however something about him has never sat quite right with me.

Within the last Carl Sagan thread I came across I stated "He was either very stoopid, very ignortant, or had the purpose of disinformation".

The other members replied something along the lines of "Aha, as if you have the balls to say that".

However, I maintained that opinion, and had it (IMO) confirmed yesterday.

I had it confirmed via realising he was a member of the CFR.

A little lightbulb went of in my head, and all those disconnected dots suddenly joined together.

Now, I don't know if that fact is common knowledge or not, but it was news to me.

So upon reading this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I thought I might just remind the 307 members who believe he *truely* was searching for alien life.

Stoopid/ignorant/disinformation... My choice words as *I* am well aware, and *millions* of other people are well aware alien life does exist, and does visit the Earth.

I'm not interested in convincing skeptics, one day you'll know, and it will be one of the most pleasing things you ever realise. However, I (we) do exspect the likes of Carl Sagan to *know* the facts...

So why the sharade Mr. Sagan?

seriously what are you talking about... What people like you don't realize is that even if YOU "know" for 100% certainty that alien life is visiting earth, it will not be considered fact until there is verifiable or undeniable evidence. If scientists just made things fact without proof than they would be a religion.

While I appreciate where your coming from and believe as you do I dont necessarily think anyone who doesnt believe is an automatic disinfo agent.

Hes a scientist and by nature they work with cold hard facts!!!!!
As much as we believe all we have to go on is what weve heard (unless of course you have had a personal experience then its a whole different kettle of fish) and as far as scientific scrutiny goes having heard something counts somewhere between bugger all and zilch

I personally like him and he always came across as sincere to me

reply to post by Sinny


CFR? Council on Foreign Relations? Code of Federal Regulations? A Tacony Company?

That's what came up when I googled CFR. Do any of these tie in with Sagan?

reply to post by Sinny


The CFR was not the same as it is today.

Today it's a global cabal of tyrants who use it as a means to gain political and socio-economic power.

There was such a time when the CFR was a voice of reason and peace within foreign relations and providing insight to governments and leaders.

Furthermore Carl was a member of the CFR for a single year in 1988. in 1993 there were aprox 3000 members of the CFR, both honorary and active.

So, in all honesty, I doubt Carl was in the boys club had he been, considering his influence among those who believed, that the government was trying to discredit, they would have used him as a vessel of lies and propaganda.

From being a student of his work, I see quite the opposite. Probably why he wasn't a CFR member for more than a year.

~Tenth

reply to post by Sinny


Sad to see you speak down on Carl Sagan. And, I still don't know which CFR you are referring to.

Who cares what he was a member of? Does that give you reason to bash him posthumously?

Existence of life outside the Solar system is a MATHEMATICAL FACT, not someone's belief.

If your intellect limits you to thinking we are alone, with "billions and billions" of stars out there, then I feel truly sad for you.

Or, you are just having a bad day and are bored.

Carl Sagan was one of the most awesome scientists I have ever listened to.

I'm sorry you have such a tainted view of him, I fully believe that he was closer to the truth than many people give him credit for.

He's one of my hero's!

That thread that you listed was an awesome thread, I fully enjoyed it although I hold nothing as truth these days, just interesting thoughts until something is proven.

You need to lay off that Brummie pop Sinny......cummoffitt.

Of course life "probably" exsists outside our own little world, intelligent or not, but there is no hard evidence to suggest they have visited us.

You leave Carl alone

Council of foreign relations, and no, I highly doubt there was any point in time that particular think tank was a neutral or positive conception... Going from the works of scholars such as john coleman.

Exactly, scientific evidence, there's plenty of it in abundance, so why is he ignoring it?

ETA: speaking of "cold hard facts" was it fairies that flew over the Whitehouse in '52?

reply to post by Sinny


To simply cite your personal opinion on such flimsy evidence is startling. Equally startling is that you are a couple of years behind the on the Sagan saga.

I suggest you first read William Poundstone's bio on the guy entitled Carl Sagan: A Life in the Cosmos it details Sagan's fascinaton with UFOs while he was an undergrad and how he wrote a letter to the Secretary of Defense wanting to know what was being done about it. Some say he was still adament about them as a grad student. At some point, he saw that it was scientifically sucide in that day for any scientist to be pro UFO so he changed sides, more or less, by dissing UFOs. He was asked to be on the corrupt, so-called Condon committee. and got him established as the top gun for shooting down every UFO story that he came across. but yet insisting that ETs were still out there.

To call Saga "stupid" as you did is as Forest Gump would say is "Stupid is as stupid does." (To clarify that for you, Sagan was brilliant.)

I've long said on ATS and elswhere that Sagan firmly believed in UFOs and his friends have confirmed that, and yet he chose (or was hired) to help usher the world's public along the way to acceptance of bigger concepts that most of them could do on their own. In a word, Saga was a traitor to his own cause.

I don't think he did it because Uncle asked him to, but because he saw it was the right and necessary thing to do. As a social gadfly scientist, as he has been called, he was the perfect one for the job.

reply to post by Sinny


Again SInny, you can't honestly believe that the CFR as it existed back in the 80's (3000 + members) which was FILLED with scientists, scholars and academics ( as opposed to now which is just bankers, private interest men etc) were all in a game to screw us?

I know my tin foil hat gets screwed on quite tight sometimes, but the facts really show that his stint at the CFR seemed to be either honorary in nature, or purely academic from a consulting view point.

~Tenth

Originally posted by phantomjack
reply to post by Sinny

 

Sad to see you speak down on Carl Sagan. And, I still don't know which CFR you are referring to.

Who cares what he was a member of? Does that give you reason to bash him posthumously?

Existence of life outside the Solar system is a MATHEMATICAL FACT, not someone's belief.

If your intellect limits you to thinking we are alone, with "billions and billions" of stars out there, then I feel truly sad for you.

Or, you are just having a bad day and are bored.

In all fairness, i think she was saying that she does believe in life outside this planet, well i think so anyway, its late, im tired.

reply to post by Aliensun


Exactly, he was a moral sell out.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Whilst I appreciate your point of view, I'm still more inclined to go with Colemans, Suttons and Skolnicks history. Each to their own tho aye.

reply to post by Sinny


you do realise if Carl Sagan was to admit publically Ufos exist he would of lost all of his financial backing and also his prestigous position at California ( i think) University. So hes gonna throw away that for a life teaching highschool physics or on welfare causes he got marginlised for admitting ufos exist. Dont think so.

And he has to think about his familiy when he dies so hes not gonna risk hurting them so he kept his mouth shut on Ufos. So hows that make him a hypocrite.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


That's precisely the reason the *best* scientists go unheard of.

Instead of offering humanity a leg up, he's helped keep the masses in stagnation.

Not very moral or honorable IMO.

Because whilst he's on TV flattering the world with the *possibility* alien life might exist, he's simultaneously s***ting on everybody in the world that has came forth with the truth that aliens *are* here.

Originally posted by thedoctorswife

Originally posted by phantomjack
reply to post by Sinny

 

Sad to see you speak down on Carl Sagan. And, I still don't know which CFR you are referring to.

Who cares what he was a member of? Does that give you reason to bash him posthumously?

Existence of life outside the Solar system is a MATHEMATICAL FACT, not someone's belief.

If your intellect limits you to thinking we are alone, with "billions and billions" of stars out there, then I feel truly sad for you.

Or, you are just having a bad day and are bored.

In all fairness, i think she was saying that she does believe in life outside this planet, well i think so anyway, its late, im tired.

Oh, SORRY Sinny. Me and everyone else must have read it wrong! My apologies.

Still....long live Carl Sagan!

reply to post by Sinny


Do me a favor and link some of their work regarding Sagan, I've never read it, so if there's information there worth reading, I'd love to do so.

Perhaps I"ll change my opinion if they have more than just conjecture.

~Tenth

reply to post by Sinny



Carl did his thing in life. He was brainier than you or me. He believed in Ufos but didnt want to share that belief publically. Your makin him ut to be one of Satans Imps...which is way out of proportion.

And your use of the phrase "TV flattering the world with the *possibility* alien life might exist", well you being a follower of Satan im very suprised you are offended by Carl doing this. I could jump on tyhis and exaggerate and say you ar not a bonafide satanist and have sold out.