The founding Fathers knew US Government would eventually become tyrants

Originally posted by phantomjack

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by thehoneycomb

 

“Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”

“A Republic, if you can keep it.”

-- attributed to Benjamin Franklin, as he left Independence Hall after the close of the Constitutional Convention of 1787,

It is obvious. They knew that it was up to us to fight for it. Instead, we are fighting for oil and world supremacy.

Recall that much of our early history was about if we should be more or less isolationish. About if we should seek any Imperialism. Obviously we have made many, many wrong choices along the way.

While I agree with part of your opinion, where have we "fought for oil" and "world supremacy?"

America is great because it IS supreme. Period. Find me another country better.

And are you going to say we went to Iraq for Oil? Show me where we took ONE DROP of oil, paid for or stolen.

America is great because 2 generations ago we had people inspire America to be great. Ever since, we have rested on our laurels. So much so that today, we have no space program to speak of. We are losing that edge because we are not inspired to be something great. Notice that as NASA died so did the math and science scores of our students nation wide. Doubtful a coincidence.

RE: Iraq and oil....we went to war with Iraq over their desire to stop trading for oil in US dollars. That is considered "economic warfare" in DC and cannot be tolerated. So no, oil may not have been a direct desire, but it was involved. That is, IF you believe that we haven't profited from it. If I recall, Haliburton has done mighty well working those Iraqi contracts. And that is just one company out of many.

RE: world surpremacy....are you serious? It would be easier if you just read "War is Racket" by Smedley Butler, the most decorated soldier in US history. I think his opinion not only carries weight, but is spot on. Our superiority is enforced.

RE: finding a better country....measuring the lesser of two evils seems to be an American past time. Just look at what our electoral process has devolved to. Besides, as Einstein once said, "Nationalism is no different than racism." And, as Ben Franklin said, "Where liberty is, there is my country."

reply to post by phantomjack

America is great because it IS supreme. Period. Find me another country better.

In military terms, yes. Many other countries throughout the world have a higher standard of living than the US and they don't need a large military to have it. Your statement is why many people throughout the world view America as an arrogant bully. History shows that every great nation will eventually fall, let's hope we don't live long enough to see this happen to America.

iI cant take credit for the post but what he is trying to say there all crooks:

I'm sure you have heard of the practice of withholding critically damning evidence of a situation until a period of time has elapsed - often fifty years - to protect the living reputations of those involved in a particular undertaking. Did you know that they did this in 1787????? There were 65 men delegated by their states to attend the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia. Did you know that ten of these refused to attend, including one whole state, Rhode Island? Did you know that of those who did attend another sixteen were too ashamed of the document to put their names to it? That means that of those who were delegated to attend not even a two-thirds majority could be mustered to ratify the thing, let alone the unanimous agreement required by the Articles of Confederation, the amendment of which was the sole purpose for calling the 1787 convention. Of the signers of the Declaration of Independence, 16 signed the Articles of Confederation; 8 attended the 1787 Con-Con, but only 4 of those signed the Constitution. If it was so great, why didn't those who were a party to its creation jump at the chance to add their names as signers?

The US Constitution and the Founding Scoundrels

Postby saynotochips » Mon Feb 12, 2007 10:58 pm
www.libertythink.com... ... nding.html



US Constitution and the Founding Scoundrels
Sunday, October 29, 2006


by "GnoseBob"
October 28, 2006

Unfortunately the original Confederate constitution was patterned after the 1787 US Constitution which itself was a repudiation of the whole revolutionary war effort against British dominance. Constitutions are quite unnecessary unless a people surrender all their sovereignty to a government in which case restraints are seemingly necessary to keep that government from ending the people's liberties. The primary mistake with any government is to rely on the democratic process, for by one's vote one surrenders one's sovereignty to those for whom one votes. Any government, and there have been many around the world which have patterned their organizations on the US Constitution, is doomed to failure as far as freedom is concerned. This is from the people's point of view. "All organizations are organized for the benefit of the organizers." From the government point of view government is always a success until it self-destructs from its own internal rot and corruption. Under a government's dominance, there can be no such thing as a "sovereign freeman."

There have been thousands of books written extolling the virtues and imaginary benefits of the US Constitution over the past couple hundred years. There are endless articles written today about how all society's problems can be ended by merely abiding by the Constitution's original intentions. BUT, unless one understands the original intentions of the Founding Scoundrels who met in secret conclave in 1787 to conspire against the freedoms of the American people, one KNOWS NOTHING

Originally posted by thehoneycomb
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

Be that as it may. Only about 3% fought for and believed in the ideals represented in the constitution. Most people would not fight for it no less lay down their lives for it.

The revolution was over in 1781, which is also the year the Articles of Confederation was signed.
The peace treaty between England and the colonies, declaring the end of hostilities, was signed in 1783.
The constitution wasn't written and ratified until 1788 and the Bill of Rights wasn't added until 1791

Therefore, the revolutionary soldiers could have had no idea there would even BE a constitution, much less what ideals it would represent. Many of them were quite unhappy when they discovered the ideals that had been written into the constitution.

Looking at their words today, the warnings seem almost prophetic.

www.barefootsworld.net...

Madison said "it is a contest for power, not for liberty." G. Morris said "2nd Branch must be Men of great Property." A House of Lords would have been met with considerable opposition back then. "Aristocracy should keep down Democracy" he added. Rutledge said "Honesty will probably predominate in lower House Ability in upper." He missed the mark twice with that statement. More from Gouverneur Morris: "If our establishments are good they must be supported and will take a proper Direction - If the State Governments have Distribution of Loaves and Fishes the general Government cannot prevail -- You must give them Disposition of Offices and Baubles -- The Senatorship will operate as a Lure." I wonder how many gullible state legislators who thereby were lured into ratifying the new Constitution weren't salivating over the thought of becoming parties to the new Roman Senate.

So here are a few notations that give one an idea of some of the thinking of these characters. I urge anyone who has an interest in the Constitution to collect some of these published minutes and discover the real purposes behind it all. The idea of another Constitution holds no promise of any rebirth of freedom. It only offers a new set of chains to bind down the people. Only by going back to the Saxon (and earlier) basic ten family political unit (the Tun) and working up from there by appointing - NOT ELECTING - representations to sit in council can a limited government ever be constructed. It has to come up from the people, not from a real or imagined aristocracy. This is what a republican FORM of government is all about. The democratic form is suicidal.

reply to post by madenusa


Wish I could star that post a hundred times.

reply to post by frazzle


I just had to share this report,it makes sense our founding fathers..... nothing new under the sun

Unless one understands the original intentions of the Founding Scoundrels who met in secret conclave in 1787 to conspire against the freedoms of the American people, one KNOWS NOTHING....

Originally posted by madenusa
reply to post by frazzle

 

I just had to share this report,it makes sense our founding fathers..... nothing new under the sun

Unless one understands the original intentions of the Founding Scoundrels who met in secret conclave in 1787 to conspire against the freedoms of the American people, one KNOWS NOTHING....

Absolutely, but its more a centuries long campaign of disinformation that keeps people from knowing the truth. On one hand you've got to feel bad for people who honestly believe the constitution is an infallible and sacred document and on the other hand you want to find a 2 x 4 to get their attention.

When something is such a catastrophic failure, that's a pretty good indication that the foundation is shoddy.

Originally posted by phantomjack

While I agree with part of your opinion, where have we "fought for oil" and "world supremacy?"

America is great because it IS supreme. Period. Find me another country better.

And are you going to say we went to Iraq for Oil? Show me where we took ONE DROP of oil, paid for or stolen.

What REALLY makes a country great? The amount of nukes and bully power it has, or the actual level of happiness, health, freedom and education of its citizens? If it's the latter, then there are many countries better than the usa. Check the global happiness index for starters. Google is useful for this.

Straight from my boy TJ!

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all and always well-informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had thirteen States independent for eleven years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each State. What country before ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon, and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

reply to post by randomname


A conversation is living. A bird is living. Why the hades would you WRITE SOMETHING DOWN, if you're just gonna change it later? What is the purpose of DOCUMENTING SOMETHING? Should it have been chiseled in stone? I think so. Things are WRITTEN because it is meant to be NOT FORGOTTEN. Get it?