What happened to the unions?

I am a fan of people working together to accomplish something. I believe that people should stand together when they feel something needs to be addressed.

My brothers were union miners....I have known the way of the worker for decades.....but what happened?

I remember when unsafe practices was met with a unified front...workers said "no"...."we will not go there"....

For those that do not understand....do some research into Matewan....and some of the other movements to protect workers.....lets be honest here...business will do whatever it feels it can to make a buck...this is not new.

My brothers were Union miners....they worked hard and they played hard....they produced the fire that built this country. Now, suddenly it is cool to not respect the union workers....it's ok to return them to the days of company stores and company slavery....and no...it's not ok. I have worked underground in construction engineering...it is the most dangerous thing you can imagine....how is it suddenly ok to disregard worker safety? Both of my brothers are now retired union miners....they worked their asses off for years...and one of them now has black lung....is that ok? Does he really deserve a death sentence for a dollar? I disagree. They were happy to do what they did...they faced terror every night they went down that shaft and they went anyway....so now we just p!ss on them and tell them we don't need you anymore?

I was the one and only brother that went the other way...I went into engineering....I was the youngest and I had opportunity not afforded to my brothers....I was able to get an education. Do my brothers hate me for that?....of course not...but they don't want me to forget the roots of our raising.....it was men like this that forged this country....so you Romney fans want to F@ck them and cast them to the wolves now that their usefulnes has passed?

I am all for freedom....I am all for making your own way...but I know...not only my brothers...but a whole slice of society that did their part to make this country great...and now the Robber barons would return and spit on them....like they didn't even matter...and I have a problem with that...my brothers did their part...they worked their asses off for years....someone....somewhere...needs to say...."thank you"....

reply to post by Jeremiah65

Corruption, greed and mismanagement is what happened.

Dues are forcibly taken from employees. Billions are spent on political campaigns and millions go to salaries for union bosses.

With so many laws on the books from "equal opportunity" to sexual discrimination to safe working conditions, do we really need an inefficient organization as the go between?

Arent workers free to organize on their own without the corrupt union bureaucracy?

I consider myself to be a socialist and I am against unions.

I think unions are just as bad as corporations. Teachers Unions are the worst. Unions no longer seek a fair outcome. Unions now seek all they can get.

Wage and conditions can be regulated by the government. We do not need unions. We need to take back government.

They have outlived their usefulness and have become more corrupt than the bosses they originally were created to fight.

F the unions.

reply to post by gladtobehere


But they are damaging the cause.....the cause is fair and safe working conditions....nothing more.

I have been down there....it is a terrible and scary place....I told my one brother..."How the f@ck can you do this day after day?" and he said 'There is a paycheck at the end of the week...that's how"

I don't know how many of you have ever worked underground....I don't know who actually cares....it is a scary ass place....you cannot imagine the total darkness...it defies explanation....and these guys do it....day in and day out....they are super studs man...if you know a miner, you should buy that dude a drink....he earned it.

I am pissed cause the motion seems to be to lessen the influence of unions. This whole thing with the Chicago teachers is a joke...they are not representing unions correctly....I believe they are hurting it more than helping.

Maybe that is the plan...to get the USA people to disdain workers rights....even when it hurts them personally...I have been to hell...it is 1 mile down....and when you have been there brother...you will never ever forget it.

reply to post by Jeremiah65

No one is against "workers' rights". Simply saying that people can still organize without the corrupt union bureaucracy as the middle man.

Unions were initially a good thing, fighting for better working conditions and a fair wage. Jobs like mining, road construction, masonry, and some factory jobs are hard on your health and lower your life expectancy and your quality of life. They are more dangerous jobs. We have passed many laws to make the worksite safer but these jobs still have bad effects on health. What seems to have happened is that the Unions went wild and people who had good working conditions wanted to enjoy the benefits of higher wages. Desire for more money without risk caused a raising of prices of everything and made American jobs less cost effective in the country. Solution is to outsource these jobs to keep Americans getting their junk at reasonable prices.

There are natural swings like this in our history. What really messed things up is big pensions because the costs are becoming to great. Healthcare benefits costs increasing so high were not forseen either. Businesses found it was more cost effective to outsource these union jobs but still keep a few in the country and use a lot of automation instead of help. This lowered jobs for the majority of common people in the USA. A person needs a special aptitude to run this technology. Problem is that a small percentage of high wage workers cannot support the government. The government has a lot of workers that need to be there but the wages of a few government workers are way out of line. These are jobs at the top and in special areas. A football coach does not need to get a million a year. This imbalance makes teachers think they need more money because in escence their job is more important than a coach. At least there is some union jobs left. Collective bargaining also has good and bad points. We need to get some real jobs back in the country. If deathdating is removed from American products than they will last longer because they are built better, built to last. This will justify their higher cost. Trouble is that competition has reduced the quality of American products. It's a complex cycle.

What can we do? A world war will not work anymore to straighten this out. I don't have enough knowledge to give an answer. We are on a slipslide in this country because we have got rid of the jobs for the lower middle class, the ones that can be filled by the lower class people so they can pay taxes because their income is higher. We need more hands on repetitive production jobs, that is necessary. We also need more small farm jobs, the big farms are too efficient. Make better food with human involvement. There is nothing wrong with shoveling manure and tending the fields. It is the most necessary job in America. The overabundance of people working on unnecessary paperwork is what causes the problem. The more high priced pencil pushers, the higher the costs now. The more advertising costs the higher the price of the products. We didn't save a dime, we created work for highly educated people at ridiculous wages to make up for the reduced wages of common people. The war of the suits and workingman will soon happen. The collapse of our society is imminent.

I am for unions where they are needed. I am for fair employers also. Not all jobs need unions, fair employers will give their workers what they can afford to pay and keep them working in slow times.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by Jeremiah65

 

No on is against "workers' rights". Simply saying that people can still organize without the corrupt union bureaucracy as the middle man.

That is not true....people who have never experienced this cannot appreciate the threat, the pain...the total disconnect from anyone else. I have been there...i once had to go into an abandoned mine to look at putting a belt-line through....there was pocket-falls and collapses all around....it was the scariest thing I have ever done. If you cut your mining light off....(the one on your hardhat) you could not see your hand in front of your face.....literally. I was 7 miles back under a mountain at the time...there was no way out....it was the most frightening thing I have ever-ever experienced. I could have been sealed in stone that day.....yes folks....it is that dangerous....and yet we downplay these guys and tell them they are not important....these guys are heroes....and we should treat them as such.

What kills me is the total ignorance...and guess the media does that on purpose...the dudes digging out that coal that fires those terrible ugly powerplants.....are the dudes giving you life....over 50% of the electricity in this country comes from coal....you need to shake a miners hand today and say thank you....

I have been there...I have done that...and I tell you what...these dudes are the toughest bastards you will ever hope to meet....

There is this really weird propaganda going around (republican talking points) that unions are bad. But they aren't, they were created for a reason.... The reason is that corporations will run over the workers, give them tiny pay, and horrible working conditions if left unchecked...just look at every 3rd world country. The corporate robber barons and minions are trying to get people to be against them. It's ridiculous that anyone buys into this propaganda, who ever does has not read a history book.

There's also the talking point that unions are "socialist", when they are exactly the opposite...Unions are a product of capitalism.

If their union becomes corrupt they should organize and create a new one....but don't demonize all unions because there are some bad ones.

reply to post by RealSpoke

There's also the talking point that unions are "socialist", when they are exactly the opposite...Unions are a product of capitalism.

And the capitalist created them to divide the worker. Think about it. How many unions are there? None of them really give a crap about each other.

And no unions give a crap about an unskilled worker. Unions only care about themselves. Much easier for the capitalist to deal with.

reply to post by freemarketsocialist

And the capitalist created them to divide the worker.

Unions do nothing but appease the worker, so that there will not be a workers revolution.

Without unions, capitalists can walk all over the worker....Organizing gives power, without an organized workforce they can cut your pay 50%, even if profits are up, and you can do nothing about it. If you have a union then you can fight it and possibly change the outcome...

They don't really need to give a crap about each other. We live in capitalist society, it is a dog eat dog world. Their job is to protect the workers at that particular workplace. A steel miners union has little in common with a teachers union.

During the Baby Boomer boom they all banded together to make sure they all had jobs.

Well, they all need to be paid retirements and benefits. So they threw all you other generations under the bus and cut all the jobs.....so there's enough money to pay all those Baby Boomers what's owed to them.

That's why the Unions are gone. There's millions of those Union boys now sitting at home collecting nice retirement checks....and there's only a handful of Union employees left.

The problem was, that Generation failed to create babies to replace them. Created a population hole.

reply to post by RealSpoke

reply to post by freemarketsocialist


perhaps since the neo-feudalist robber barons want to turn back the clock
the workers should take a page from their book

and bring back the old Trade-Guilds ,

that'll give the greedheads pause

just watch the video in this link.

unions want to overthrow capitalism, for communism

unions ultimate goal is to make anyone receiving a government check, or benefit, to pay dues.
that includes:
welfare
social security
food stamps
medicare
obamacare
then they can strangle the government into submission.
by then, they are the government.

read the book "shadow bosses"

Short and sweet OSHA became the safety union and NAFTA broke the bargaining power of what was left.

How do we fix it?
Step back a century where the money to run the government was provided by tarriffs on imported goods not by income taxes on the people. This boosted production of domestic products and there were jobs enough for everyone.

reply to post by VforVendettea


I agree, a five percent import tax on imports of any other country except Canada would work. I think Canada and us are so tied together that we don't need to start this with them. The import tax shouldn't apply to food items and spices though although all chemicals should be taxed, including vitamins. Products that come through Canada and aren't produced in Canada should be taxed. It is hard to patrol the boarder between Canada and the USA. Let the Canadians worry about verifying the import tax. Even if Canada were to charge their own import tax and split a little of it with the USA on sales to America than it would be ok.

This practice would help with lost revenues our states have been having with sales taxes not being paid. Many of these items sold on the net are from foreign countries. five or six percent import tax can help to pay down our debt. Maybe some jobs will be created.

Im a card carrying member of CPSU Western Australia. My father lifetime member of TWU, mother ANF, grandfather BLF (which is now CFMEU). Unionism is not dead yet, not while we stand strong together.

Solidarity brother!

reply to post by RealSpoke


Hmmmm I wonder if that's why corporations ask their managers about union conversations and donating to PACS that are anti union. I am only speaking of the food industry but what about other companies? Every year at our big shin dig they ask all managers to donate to these PACS. The first time I laughed because it was during the start of the recession and even the MSM were anti PAC. The look the president gave me assured me that it was no joke.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
that unions are bad. But they aren't, they were created for a reason.... The reason is that corporations will run over the workers, give them tiny pay, and horrible working conditions if left unchecked...

Restaurant waiters for the most part only make 2.xx an hour. Quite pitiful considering that a vast majority of people no longer tip. The waiters have to tip out, and have actually paid from there own pocket to take care of you (ex. you stiff the waiter but he still has to tip out 2.5% of your bill automatically. If any one deserves a union, its them. They get crapped on by the majority of people.

Waiters should be paid legit minimum wage....TIPS are for service and are never guaranteed. However, I do feel that unionizing servers or more pay would push a lot of the lower class out of much needed jobs. If I got out of college would I go make $17.00 in an office or around $28.00 an hour as a server. College grads would push most servers out the industry.

For the most part servers do just fine. Yes, there are lousy tippers but im not against a union stepping in and forcing them to put gratuity on each check. too often we have Europeans come in, thinking its built in (because it is there....LIKE IT SHOULD) and leave you 0. Imagine getting a whole night of those. Who pays out money to serve food? Believe it or not, happens every day.

Before the rush of servers come saying that this would be so awesome....doubt it because half of the people ive met in the service industry could NEVER pass a drug test. If i accepted a union, and higher standards as an employer, everyone is tested. Sorry

Just like everyone, you have to learn which battles to fight. Waiters and Waitresses gave this fight up a long time ago. Not to say it's not currently being revived and examined about how to mobilize a waitstaff (easy....instead of occupy whereever, its now occupy 'the store your at'! Got to unite or divided you'll fall

Originally posted by freemarketsocialist



And no unions give a crap about an unskilled worker. Unions only care about themselves. Much easier for the capitalist to deal with.

That is a lie!

My union SAG/AFTRA has training and apprenticeship programs for the unskilled as does IATSE.

Plenty of unions have training programs....

careertrainingbase.com...
www.oregonbuildingtrades.com...
communitybenefits.org...
www.prevailingwage.org...

Unions: the people who brought you weekends