Israel Uses a 13 Year Old Boy as a Human Shield

reply to post by ollncasino

Actually, Hamas and the Taliban are both from the extremely violent Wahhabi Muslim sect.

Complete misrepresentation of Hamas there. Hamas is not Wahhabi, it originated from the Muslim Brotherhood which itself is not Wahhabi.

Usually specially trained child suicide bombers

Incorrect.

According to the Coalition to Stop the Use of Child Soldiers "2004 Global Report on the Use of Child Soldiers", there were at least nine documented suicide attacks involving Palestinian minors between October 2000 and March 2004

Odious but not the usual trained suicide bombing, given there were well over a hundred during this period. Let us also remember that the last suicide bombing carried out by any Palestinian faction was in 2005.

Hamas have committed some terrible violence in their time, but they are an extremely pragmatic group who provide many services to the Palestinian people and are there to be negotiated with not simply bracketed as evil terrorists.

reply to post by Gwampo

sorry bro, moar starz

That's not what I'm here for, I'm here to post and discuss a wide range of topics that interest me. And the fact that you even consider your post having more stars than my post as a victory shows us your mentality. If you want to get technical how about we compare your Karma and WATS to mine

I be a stoopid one

You said it, not me

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk
Hamas is not Wahhabi, it originated from the Muslim Brotherhood which itself is not Wahhabi.

Are Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood Wahhabi?

Stephen Schwartz, author of "The Two Faces of Islam: The House of Sa'ud from Tradition to Terror" states that they are.

Schwartz is a contributor to National Review, The Weekly Standard, and other publications.

Hamas in Israel represents pure Wahhabism. Forms of neo-Wahhabi or Wahhabized ideology have been powerful in Egypt (the Muslim Brotherhood) and in Pakistan — in both countries neo-Wahhabis lead attacks on other Muslims and other faiths.

National Review

Originally posted by Peruvianmonk

Let us also remember that the last suicide bombing carried out by any Palestinian faction was in 2005.

Arguably, the wall that Israel built to control the passage of Palestinians into Israel had an impact on the drop of suicide bombers rather than any altruistic motives on the part of the Palestinians.

It is quite tricky to smuggle a suicide vest of explosives through the check points.

reply to post by ollncasino


The Muslim Brotherhood are not Wahhabi and neither are Hamas.

On the differences between Hasan al-Banna, the founder of the Brotherhood and Wahhabi doctrine.

While he agreed with the Wahhabis on the need to purify religious practices of illegitimate innovations, he saw nothing wrong with visits to the tombs of holy men as long as one did not seek their intercession. As a youth, he had been active in a sufi order and although he would later criticize sufism’s ‘corrupt’ aspects, he maintained that its emphasis on asceticism and mindfulness of God made it an essential part of Islam. In fact, he exhorted Muslim Brothers to practice individual and group dhikr, a ritual ‘mentioning’ of God, to strengthen the believers’ mindfulness of God and the Prophet’s example. Dhikr is a hallmark of sufi practice and considered by the Wahhabis an illegitimate innovation. More generally, Banna’s keen desire for Muslim unity to ward off Western imperialism led him to espouse an inclusive definition of the community of believers. Thus, he would urge his followers, ‘Let us cooperate in those things on which we can agree and be lenient in those on which we cannot.’ Banna did not share the Wahhabi view that most Muslims were idolaters.

Wahhabi doctrine does not support constitutional rule. Whereas Banna denied the legitimacy of hereditary monarchy in Islam, Wahhabi ulama have supported the Saudi monarchy.

A salient element in Banna’s notion of Islam as a total way of life came from the idea (current since the mid-nineteenth century) that the Muslim world was backward, and the corollary (current since the early twentieth century) that the state was responsible for guaranteeing decent living conditions for its citizens. He argued that the government had the duty to minimize unemployment, guarantee a minimum wage and health care for workers, and ensure the fair distribution of wealth. Such notions are alien to Wahhabism.

Wahhabis and Muslim Brothers had a narrow base in religious doctrine, but a shared commitment to combat powerful secular forces seeping into Muslim societies.

David Commins, The Wahhabi Mission and Saudi Arabia. I. B. Tauris (February 2, 2006). From pp. 141-143.

The Wahhabi in Saudi tolerate the Muslim Brotherhood but it is different to Wahhabism, which is Saudi's state religion. The Brotherhood and Hamas are a form of Salafiyya.

The third stage in the reformist movement occurred in the twentieth century and is generally described as `Salafiyya’ . Unlike Wahhabism or Islamic Reformation, the new movement interpreted Islam as part of the national patriotic struggle for independence. Salafiyya was primarily concerned with the ethical and educational role of religion; it was a cultural and educational rather than a political endeavour. The adherents of Salafi ideology operated as welfare organisations and occupied themselves with education and providing assistance to the needy. In order to achieve their aims they first formed local groups that operated on the communal level.

Later, in an attempt to achieve some degree of coordination amongst different local groups, the first political Muslim parties emerged (for example the Muslim Brethren in Egypt). These early Muslim parties were political but not radical or extremist organisa - tions. For a number of years (at least between 1950 and 1956) the Muslim Brethren in Egypt, for example, put social activities above political ones.

www.tandfonline.com...

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

I'm not defending the rocks being thrown, but the tying the child up as a human shield is a disgusting act that should be condemned, you don't seem very concerned. It must be nice to have lived a sheltered life.

I think given the circumstances - that throwing stones can kill people - and that these people never seem to get the message, they resorted to a strategy that may have been extreme.

But this is not quite as ominous as the claim of "using someone as a human shield"; what was being thrown were rocks.

Compare this to the usual hamas strategy of shooting from crowded areas. Whats obnoxious - and I don't see you making threads protesting this - that when they shoot bullets at IDF troops from these crowded areas, and IDF troops out of self defense return fire - and inadvertently kill civilians - it's the IDF who is held responsible, and not the terrorists who endanger those civilians, or for that matter, the suicidal non-combatants who put themselves in harms way to begin with.

The attention a little incident like this gets relative to what Hamas terrorists do - is astonishing. It is crippling in it's iniquity. I am tired clamoring about this.

Yes, doing this was stupid and counter-productive, but there is clearly a measure of decency in that they were dealing hoodlum street punks and not full-blown terrorists shootings bullets, or throwing hand grenades.

I guess the real surprise is: that the Palestinians had the bear level of humanity not to kill their little friend.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed

Israel has been caught using children as human shields various times but all I hear about is the "cowardly Islamic militants" using human shields, which is not the case. When you are trapped in an open prison and have no where else to go you are not hiding amongst civilians, you are living amongst your loved ones. Anyone who considers this hiding amongst civilians needs a reality check.

Well said OP

Why are there people arguing whether this was right or wrong? what the heck is wrong with you people these days. Seriously?
NOBODY should be a a human shield period, I don't care who you are. Whether this is faked or staged or over-hyped, it is still a disgusting act.

While I'm not happy about things like this I can see it from the point of the IDF, if they kick him in the ass (what he deserved) they are the bad guys, if they send him home he just throws more stones, if they do nothing then eventually someone breaks & they respond with gun fire.

What is the appropriate way to deal with a punk like this (srs Q) cause I don't know, especially since the normal rules don't apply i.e Dads isn't going to give you a beating when u get home instead he will sing your praise & give you extra rations.

He doesn't look scared to me, if he was scared usually his legs & free hand would be up protecting himself, just an observation not a justification.


" I was scared a stone would hit me."
Maybe he has learned his lesson then but I bet he will be back there acting hard with his cousins tomorrow so.....
If you are scared of being hit by a stone DON'T throw stones.

Also the difference between IDF & HAMAS is demonstrated well in his statement. "‘I was scared when they got me at first. I thought they would put me in prison." He was scared of going to jail, if it was an Israeli child caught throwing stones at HAMAS then I think they would of feared something much more barbaric & final than prison.

IMO also no Israel should not deal with HAMAS they are terrorist period, just like the Brits should never have dealt with Shin Fane.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
I know this post will probably raise some eyebrows and will probably be considered as propaganda by the pro Israel crowd but there should be no justification for these actions no matter who you are or what you believe in.

You really are getting desperate in your hatred of jews - you dig up a story over 8 years old.... ignoring all the times the Palestinian terrorists use their own people as human shields....

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
I know this post will probably raise some eyebrows and will probably be considered as propaganda by the pro Israel crowd but there should be no justification for these actions no matter who you are or what you believe in.

You really are getting desperate in your hatred of jews - you dig up a story over 8 years old.... ignoring all the times the Palestinian terrorists use their own people as human shields....

Was the Rabbi who tried to help the child but got head butted by police a Jew hater too?

Get a life man, this isn't about religion.

If being against using children as human shields makes me and that Rabbi Jew haters then so be it

I was not aware that this story is 8 years old as I thought it was a new report. Can you prove it is 8 years old? I will search myself to verify this claim.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
Can you prove it is 8 years old?

Good grief, just check the date on the newspaper page!

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
Can you prove it is 8 years old?

Good grief, just check the date on the newspaper page!

The disclaimer for copyright on the website as a whole is 2008

Copyright ©2008 FutureFastForward.com – All Rights Reserved

The incident is 4 years old, your math is even lacking. But it still doesn't make it right.

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
Can you prove it is 8 years old?

Good grief, just check the date on the newspaper page!

The disclaimer for copyright on the website as a whole is 2008

That's not the date of the article Einstein...go to any link on that page and it will have the same date.

Copyright ©2008 FutureFastForward.com – All Rights Reserved

Even if the above date was correct, it's not 8 years old, just saying...

I said check the date on the newspaper page, not the date elsewhere.

If you had checked you would have seen Daily Mail, Friday, April 23, 2004

The incident is 4 years old, your math is even lacking.

Your hatred for jews is blinding you again, 2004 is 8 years ago.... where do you get 4 years from?

Originally posted by ollncasino

He must make his parents were proud. He is going straight to heaven apparently.

That photo is hilarious. A boy with what looks like bomb gear strapped to himself yet he is wearing a Nike shirt which is a western brand may I add. Confused?

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

this isn't about religion.

This.
Amazing how religion is always brought up in any thread that has to do with muslims.
Like as if the teenagers who threw rocks at Israeli military vehicles did so out of some religious obligation.

reply to post by DarknStormy


You are using arabic numerals every day, are you confused too?

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

Yes, I acknowledge that the boy was throwing rocks and should have been dealt with accordingly. Tying him up to their armored vehicle was NOT the proper way to discipline this child.

Actually, if it teaches him not to throw rocks at other people, then it was exactly the proper way to discipline him. He will be less likely to throw rocks the next time once he experiences what it's like to be hit by one of them. He got just what he needed.

Apparently his parents didn't care to begin with, otherwise they would have taught him while he was in diapers to be respectful.

Good Job Israel .

You know, I'd rather see a pic of this boy, tied where he is at, with the surroundings. If this is in a parking lot, surrounded by other cars, the kid's tied up there, not as a human shield, but as a temporarily uncomfortable prisoner.

I mean, just because a kid's on a car doesn't mean that he was in front of a rock barrage, folks.

reply to post by spoor


Don't worry, the propaganda is STRONG in this thread...........

Heres a great children's story......And You wonder WHY their is perpetual violence......


Sheik Tells Children the Story of Palestinian Female Suicide Bomber Wafa Idris, Concluding: Allah Willing, We Will All Become Like Wafa Idris

Just look at these kids........


as Op stated, but seems not to concerned about the "other" side of the coin..........

disgusting act that should be condemned


You wont see both sides to the story, cause it doesn't serve OP's agenda. Period.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

You are using arabic numerals every day, are you confused too?

I am sure the poster is not forcing his kid, or any others to wear a damn bomb, around his waist.



How confused can ANYONE be, to not see this is wrong, and not SAY that its wrong?

Yes, confusion sets in, that someone cant actually see the Irony, in wearing western clothing, while hating the West.

Then again I am 100% sure, brainwashing these children, is in the bomb makers best interest. He then continues to make these weapons, without having to kill himself !!!

An outsider would not understand it...



West Bank and Gaza
Quite often we were recalled for operations in the West Bank or Gaza. At the time it was the first intifada or uprising by the Arab population of the West Bank and Gaza.
Unlike today, the security responsibility in the years 1989-2001 was under Israel. But the “uprising” of the locals made our lives quite uncomfortable. Our retaliation made their lives quite uncomfortable as well.
My intention is not to judge who is right and who is wrong in the Arab-Israeli conflict as I will leave that for the politicians and historians. I am here to tell the story as seen by the eyes of a 19 year old soldier at the time.
So what did we see?
Well, they, on their side, were very eager to harm us. The hate in the eyes of the local population is hard to forget. We walked the street of Hebron Schem and Tulkarem knowing fully well that the locals would kill us if they had the chance. The occasional Molotov cocktail or engine thrown at us from the rooftops was a good reminder.
One day we caught one. He was 14 years old and we caught him throwing rocks at us. He begged and cried and said that it was a mistake. We let him go. After 10 minutes he was back with a large group of friends throwing watermelon sized rocks at us from the roofs.
Different units responded differently to these situations. The paratroopers are known to treat the local population with respect. But some other units, mainly the border patrol, have harder ways. They come in and the locals run away as if they have seen the devil himself. Crowd control is their ‘specialty’.
The ‘operations’ in the west bank were many times at night. We would appear behind a village accompanied by a Shabak agent (like FBI). He would point at a house and say “this house has the wanted person inside”. We would go in and grab him out, trying not to make too much fuss. Many times we found ourselves surrounded by elderly Arab women who cried “Ya Ibni” (my son) and try to prevent us from taking the suspects. Very unpleasant stuff for a 19 year old (but more unpleasant for the suspects, I guess).
Sometimes the task was to guard an individual or a building. The daily activities in the West Bank and Gaza were very demanding. The patrols started early in the morning and ended late at night. In Gaza, for example, we were assigned responsibility over a part of the town. We would patrol it and set up random checkpoints to look for weapons. The hostile environment meant there were daily attacks on patrols. At the time they have not yet introduced the suicide bombers. These were prominent in the second intifada starting in the year 2000. At our time, they would attack us with engine blocks, home made explosives, swords, axes, knives and the occasional gunfire. We would respond with tear gas - which the local population is immune to. Then we had “rubber” bullets, which were actually rubber-coated bullets. They were painful, but not deadly. Very inaccurate, can not hit anything beyond 20 meters. We also had “plastic” bullets, which were, yes, plastic-coated bullets. These were nasty and could kill someone from a short distance. And of course, we had our 5.56 ammunition, in case we were fired at.
We didn’t like Gaza. Nor the West Bank. It could be very confusing to understand the rules of engagement. These would change regularly. In Lebanon, it was clear: Anyone approaching Israel from the North is a legitimate target. Here we had civilian population which could turn deadly as you turn your back on them. They used kids to plant bombs and fake bombs on the sides of the roads. Every Israeli soldier injured by a rock would be “worth” 200 shekels to the kid’s parents. We were happy to return to Israeli territory after each visit to the West Bank and Gaza.

Was this interesting?