America in Crisis - Five Core Problems, But Are They Solvable or Do We Dissolve As a Nation

reply to post by ABNARTY


I also agree with your post.
It serves a good summary of what is taking place.
Seems that some people see it, others keep the blinders on.

Nice.

1. A recalcitrant and cynical major party that views every issue through the fun house mirror of religious dogma and because they are literalists, they are pre-disposed to reject science – all science (natural and social). Academic studies mean nothing because with every issue they head to the bible for an answer. And since the bible is to them absolute truth,, the real, testable facts are rejected. Everything becomes a matter of opinion and nothing is a matter of fact, save for their Truth. Rational discussion and problem solving become impossible

Nature of the beast. Some people are intellectually lazy and don't want to find answers on their own so they look to others to make their decisions for them. As long as they can use their ipod, they will stay happy. Terrible!

I hear comments like, "At least in the U.S. we have freedom." Well, more than half the world has freedom at least as equal to ours, some greater. But more than that, is our modern American definition of freedom even real freedom? In the U.S., "freedom" actually translates into "no government intervention."

Hit the nail on the head. Once again, it's those that are stuck in the mindset that America makes the world go round instead of it doing it on it's own. All they have been feed is lies and deceit and it comes to a point that they will believe it all even to their own detriment.

A European definition instead looks at human well being: "I am free to do what I love and follow my dreams because I need not factor in if that work gives me access to health insurance." By contrast, an American faces a Hobson's choice: "I am free to do what I want, but if that leaves my family without healthcare, that's life." It is like saying, you are free to live or die, which will you choose? Consequently, Americans stay in jobs they hate and their dreams are harder to achieve. Sadly, many in the U.S. will say, "tough luck," a decent, humane life is only deserved by those either skilled enough, lucky enough or dogged enough to earn it.

*ahems* Napoleon!

3. The American obsession with unfettered capitalism such that anything that deters maximum profit must necessarily equal “bad” or even “immoral.” We’ve long ago forgotten that economic models are creations by people invented to serve society, not the other way around. We have elevated it so much, it is not only orthodoxy, but actually codified in law, that corporations are people.

Yup. Capitalism is america's government. Capitalism without checks and balances leads to what we have today, monopolies.

A media too integrated into and cozy with the power structure to do much more than showcase conflict and construct false equivalence because they now think truth to be mutually exclusive of objectivity. Imagine modern media moderating a debate between Hitler and Churchill. “Mr. Prime Minister, Chancellor Hitler says Jews are a lesser, subhuman race, you say they are not. Why is his opinion any less valid than yours?”…

Meh, don't listen to them. There are a few diamonds in the ruff like Benn Swan and his reality check. Our media is bought and sold, period. Everything they do is slanted.

An insatiable Mil/NatSec sector leveraging both fear and American arrogance (see #2) to breed a militaristic, intrusive, gear-up-shoot-first culture -- both domestically against its own citizenry and overseas – to keep itself the unquestioned top budget priority. One byproduct is a vulgar and dangerous erosion of the most basic civil liberties and rise of the police state: the militarization of law enforcement, the Patriot Act, the NDAA, forfeiture laws, the War on Drugs, etc. The other is the militaristic, arrogant foreign policy: extrajudicial and unilateral killings with drones (even of American citizens) in sovereign nations, the oxymoronic Bush Doctrine of “preventative war.” Does anyone really believe this has done anything other than breed hatred of us the world over, degrading us from a nation with some argument of holding a moral high ground to now a pariah that is more feared than respected?

I'll add to your astute observation with this...

"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."

-----Goering at the Nuremberg Trials

Originally posted by pajoly
reply to post by METACOMET

 

I don't understand your point. I am very familiar with what's required to amend the Constitution.

Further, as literalists, they are only able to view the Constitution and its parts in the same literal context versus allowing it to be a living document whose tenets can be thoughtfully applied to modern challenges. Theirs is a world without nuance, without adaptability.

Everything makes sense but #1. Scientific evidence and be easily pointed in any direction. If we were to only test stuff based on that we'd be screwed and easily influenced by TPTB who control Most scientists. Perfect example They tell us back in the 50s how we need floride in our water and slowly but surely everyone accepts it as gosple truth, still to this day. Even though floride is a poison and at last it's all coming out that it was a HUGE MISTAKE based on no science at all, but all based on greed all coming from TPTB. So we should believe science, really? GET REAL BUDDY WAKE UP.

If anything we should doubt most all science we're presented with. Do our own independent research on the topic even if it takes years and years. Don't believe just whatever MSM tells us, as it's mostly brainwashing propaganda and lies from TPTB.

Thats' where the bible gives us a measure, standard, and compass that always gives us the correct instruction to go by and test ideas against. That's why many people in the US and from around the world do it. It's time tested. Prime example, the 10 commandments. If we believed science they'd likely start telling us that the 10 commandments are not correct and it is okay to lie, cheat, steal and kill, the exact same way that TPTB do all the time! No we definitely need a Godly standard to go by, not a secular humanistic washington Nazi science project that will blow up in our face.

reply to post by bjax9er

the dept. of education was created by democrats during the carter admin. it's been downhill ever since.

Forgot something didn't you? The republicans doubled the size of the dept. of education and then cut funding to it. And you are partly right Carter did sign the dept. of education into law in 1979 but the dept. really started in 1867 and a year later it was demoted to office of education.

reply to post by TDawgRex

Where is the guy/gal who just wants to give the rest of us a "Hand up"?

That's Obama. You can say he just wants to give entitlements but it's good to see a president that doesn't want people to starve because their unemployment run out. He tried to give a hand up by trying to give tax breaks to companies to move back into this country but the republicans blocked it.

Obama wants to give a hand up.
Romney wants to give you the finger.

reply to post by WhoKnows100

Explain how Germany has much lower crime rates and higher environmental awareness than you do in the U.S., while we have much less religion in general and less to none religious zealotry in politics.

If you believe in numbers, check them.
Your premise that religion = high ethical standards is false.

reply to post by pajoly


You're totally wrong my friend. You have no idea who's really in charge. Here's a hint for you, it's not the politicians like you believe.

reply to post by pajoly

A well-written and well-thought out post. I disagree that your fifth point (military dominance of the state or some portion of it) is really so serious a problem; it was bigger in the past. The combination of ever-more-accurately targeted electronic communications and consumerism that dominates the media and warps cultural and ethical values is far worse, since it works in synergy with your first three 'core problems', amplifying and propagating their effects.

This media loop is an important part of what has gone wrong with America. It represents consumer capitalism gone mad – everything, from politics to religion to morality to conspiracy theories, now packaged and sold using techniques developed in advertising and public relations. And people unconsciously abet this universal hucksterism by choosing only to watch, read, hear about and learn what appeals to them or fits in with their world-views.

There are no simple solutions, but one simple observation can be made. Everybody watches too much television and/or spends too much on the internet. These powerful media take the place of real life in many people's minds; in fact, the majority of citizens believe that the reality constructed by the media is the same as the one their bodies inhabit. They are living in a dream, an artificial hallucination.

Most of America's (and the world's) current problems, in my view, can be traced to this error.

*

Concerning your five points, the right-winger's mantra of 'small government' will not answer. Small government is no longer feasible. Society has grown hugely complex and elaborate, so government has to be big if it is to do its work at all. Of course, the disciples of the Invisible Hand insist that their deity can solve all problems; but even Adam Smith, their spiritual father, was under no illusions about the limitations, not to mention the morally debilitating effects, of capitalism.

Belief in conspiracies will not help; on the contrary, such beliefs further disconnect their holders from reality. Imaginative confabulations about evildoing Republicans, liberals, Communists, atheists, religious or pseudoreligious organizations, Jews, bankers, Illuminati and the like lead people away from reality, not towards it. In this regard, Above Top Secret is worse than Fox News – much worse.

I don't think any solutions are feasible. This is history happening, and even those who understand the process clearly are powerless to stop it. The world the Western Enlightenment built is crumbling, a victim, like all empires, of its own success. Our belief in the inevitability of progress has died. The West will not lead the world for much longer; indeed, most of the rest of the world has already mutinied. The successors-to-be are waiting in the wings. We are living in the last days – not of Biblical judgement, but of liberal democracy and possibly of scientific enlightenment, too.

Still, some of this may be a good thing. In an America that is no longer the cultural, financial and military capital of the world, some sense of sanity may return. When people are poorer, with fewer toys to play with and less money and energy to squander, they may remember something that American society – indeed, most societies around the world today – are forgetting: that while there is nothing intrinsically wrong with pleasure, personal ambition and the desire for a better life, a properly functioning society is one in which people recognize that duty toward others, and towards the community, must trump these factors whenever a conflict arises. We should not mistake our duty for a shackle.

The Founding Fathers of the USA were not such rugged individualists as the modern American right presents them. They lived in a time when people depended on each other enormously – small communities, limited resources and primitive technology saw to that. A man's obligation to his fellow man was something automatic, obvious to everybody. The moneygrubbers and ideologues who claim to be their heirs have perverted their message of responsible individual freedom within an integrated, cooperative society into a culture of reckless personal self-aggrandizement in which everyone is supposed to get as rich as possible while behaving as irresponsibly towards others as possible, and the Invisible Hand, aided by a government starved of funds and constitutionally weakened, struggles to deal with the casualties.

Americans are riding the coattails of the hard work and sacrifices previous generations have made to make this country great but we are not giving nothing back. America today is like a savings account that is constantly having money removed from it and none being put back into it.We are very quickly reaching the point where there will be no more money left in that savings account.

The conduct of our politicians and corporate leaders today is proof that they aren`t cut from the same clothe that previous generations of leaders were,the leaders that made this country great.greatness can`t be put on auto pilot and continue of it`s own accord,it requires hard work everyday by competent,morale dedicated leaders.Our leaders today don`t have the right stuff to do the right things that will continue to keep this country great.

Riding the coattails of great men and living off the reputation of their deeds and hard work will only take us so far,but at some point we must do great deeds of our own if we wish to remain a great country.
The deeds of our recent political and corporate leaders have not even come close to greatness.We have milked the deeds,hard work and reputations of previous generations for all we can, they can`t help us anymore.
Greed and selfishness never built a great country or great civilization.to the contrary,greed and selfishness are parasites that destroy great countries and great civilizations.The future of this country is now in our hands our deeds and decisions will determine if this country remains great or becomes just another footnote in history of a once great empire that self destructed.

Originally posted by METACOMET
reply to post by pajoly

 

Since the constitution is no longer law, the point is moot. That being said, the viewpoint that the constitution is a living, fluid document is just incredibly careless on your part.

The very purpose of drafting a constitution and a bill of rights is to specifically withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy. Their meanings cannot be altered without the consent of The PEOPLE. If rights only mean what you personally think they should mean, and not what is explicitly written, they are worthless. Your OP is courting disaster by suggesting a portion of society can just haphazardly eliminate portions of the Constitution they don't like without following the lawful procedure written into the document.

The US is a representative Republic, I'm sure you know this. This is elementary school stuff. If you and so many others want it changed then vote to amend the constitution via article 5.

The Constitution is a written instrument. As such, its meaning does not alter. That which it meant when it was adopted, it means now. – South Carolina v. United States, 199 U.S. 437, 448 (1905)

On every question of construction, let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed. -Thomas Jefferson

Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government. – James Madison

To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition. – Thomas Jefferson

I cannot assent to the view, if it be meant that the legislature may impair or abridge the rights of a free press and of free speech whenever it thinks that the public welfare requires that it be done. The public welfare cannot override constitutional privilege. – John Marshall Harlan, U.S. Supreme Court Justice, Patterson v. Chicago

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

edit on 26-8-2012 by METACOMET because: (no reason given)

Your post actually has more value and usefulness than the OP. Thank you.
Second

reply to post by Astyanax


Now that's one hellova post. Eloquent, articulate, connected and deeply thoughtful. I agree, but could never express it so gracefully. Thanks for the contribution. It does a heart well to read something literate and deep on this site. You just gave a graduate level social anthropology lecture.

reply to post by METACOMET


You are proving my point. You quote founders and the rules to amend the Constitution. That's information, not knowledge. Had you knowledge (gained from understanding history and not just reading static information without context), you'd know that the Supreme Court has very often come to very different determinations of the meaning of things within the Constitution and amendments have nothing to do with that.

A literalist court, as we have now, tries to be strict and narrow in interpretation based on what was thought to be the definition of key phrasing within the Constitution at the time. A Modernist, by contrast, will seek to capture the intent of the words and will apply that to modern problems while knowing that the writers of the Constitution could not anticipate all that would come after and would thus expect adaptability of the language.

Data without context is useless and is only convincing to people who are uniformed.

Originally posted by pajoly
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

But this does nothing to solve the problem. You cannot affect your proposed solution due to the barriers presented by the core problems. To say, we'll just cut off the money, that'll fix everything. That fixes nothing because it is not a realistic solution unless it can be done.

It is unrealistic to think cutting off the money is avoidable. It is impossible to continue to spend 140 percent and growing of tax income perpetually.

When the excess money does get cut off it will get ugly, and will lead to chaos. What it will do though is force Americans to deal with our real problems because they will no longer be able to be dismissed. This is exactly what we need, because the first step to solving any problem is the widespread acknowledgement of it's existence.

reply to post by pajoly


Your other points are fine I suppose. But point #1 is blatantly ignorant considering how many "Christians' there are in ATS that have positively contributed to some of the more intellectually engaging topics in the forums. I know at least one of the staff members falls in that category.

I lurk these forums and occasional I make posts here and there. Don't expect a response because I won't be back in this topic to see it.

If I were to find a problem, all I'd have to do is look at what people say in the Internet where they are 'protected' by 'anonymity'.

Originally posted by GambitVII
reply to post by pajoly

 

I lurk these forums and occasional I make posts here and there. Don't expect a response because I won't be back in this topic to see it.

If I were to find a problem, all I'd have to do is look at what people say in the Internet where they are 'protected' by 'anonymity'.

edit on 27-8-2012 by GambitVII because: (no reason given)

How lofty and noble. You hit and run in to threads to dispense your exalted wisdom, and then leave without debating to search for other places to render your lordly opinion and then run again. Where I'm from, we call that kid's game "ring and run."

I do love it when holier than thou people use anonymity to come on in and rail against anonymity. My, what a courageous fellow you are. Do you sleep in your bunk bed in a cape too?

reply to post by pajoly


Oh goodie... a liberal diatribe steeped with a healthy dose of self-loathing and atheism! YAY!

Here's 5 core problems that actually mean something...

1.) The party of diversity and acceptance hates people who believe in religion rendering them all hypocrites.
2.) Liberals refuse to leave the country for greener pastures and simply demand the US change to suit their ideals despite the fact that they comprise less than 10% of the citizenry.
3.) Liberals have corrupted the school system to the point where children are brought up to believe in entitlement, rather than EARNING things... including respect! This will result in a nation of idiots unwilling to work hard.
4.) Liberal attitudes regarding entitlement towards things that OTHER PEOPLE EARN and a faulty notion of redistributing wealth as a good idea.
5.) Democrats buy votes by promising benefits to people and then confiscate the wealth and property of others via taxation.

See? Anyone can make a stupid list! I, however, find mine much more accurate... and interesting.

If it's true that our species is alone in the universe, then I'd have to say the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little. -- George Carlin

reply to post by pajoly


I enjoy your thought-provoking posts/threads, pajoly!

I do think however, that even 5 things is still not the root or heart of the matter....a tree has lots of branches and the roots mirror the shape but are hidden...the bigger the tree grows, the more branchier it gets.

But always, there is one trunk (most species! LOL) and one tap root...

Once beyond a certain point, no further bifurcation occurs...that is...one trunk forever...one tap root the same.

To cut a tree DOWN in the most efficient manner, you must have a big saw and for the base of the trunk...then you dig out the root. (get a dozer).

I think just about everything has the same structure...that's another discussion.

Bifurcation in this country is manifested in the bipartisan political system.
There can be no UNITED StateS of America if the governing body is set up to promote an US OR THEM mindset rather than one that fosters teamwork and cooperation for the good of WE THE PEOPLE.

But even that is not the root...or the main trunk.

Our issue as a nation is that we continually choose FEAR instead of LOVE.
We are AFRAID to lose our so-called Freedom...and I do not think we are free because we are slaves to the almighty dollar and the power it wields to provide necessities for life.
We are AFRAID of losing our Finances.
We are AFRAID of losing our right to Fornicate (using that word because there is an "F" theme here, bear with me)...
We are AFRAID of not having enough Food.
We are AFRAID of not having Friends.
We are AFRAID of losing Family.

F is the 6th letter of the alphabet and it is the FEAR of losing these things that are pushing us toward failure in the great American experiment designed by our Founding Fathers...it was their FEAR that this would fail.

FEAR is
F alse
E vidence
A ppearing
R eal

All this boils down to the Fear of losing LOVE....fear is the enemy of love...not hate...we do not fear losing anything until we have it.

Look at the gargantuan military machine and the out of proportion expenditures we spend on 'DEFENSE.'

We are defending things that we need not fear losing if we could just lose our FEAR.

FDR said something truer than true when he said the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
Ironically, that remark seemed to exacerbate the problem rather than indemnify it.

Our complacency and our willingness to be so easily distracted with toys and technology and tv, etc., is because we FEAR facing the facts...we FEAR the truth but if we'd face it, we could fix it.

If we went into foreign lands with a military designed to ESTABLISH and MAINTAIN peace using peaceful methods such as helping set up agriculture...alleviate poverty and inequality...there would eventually be no more danger of insurrection...no more unrest.
Unrest in the masses is caused by the lack of necessities...the unfair distribution of wealth causes the poor to breed discontent...and this is a natural reaction!

And the reason for the unfair distribution of wealth is, once again, fear. Those with money and power fear losing it so they horde it. And in doing this, directly cause the increase of the threats that they fear...at first imagined, the idea of fear grows into an actuality when the effects bring discontent and unrest and then truly and literally threaten the false security of wealth and power.

All the people want is to have what they need...but those that have all they need have an even greater fear of not having it than the people who have not yet even had their basic minimum needs met.

People would argue that we can't put our guns down and enter other countries to help because we would be attacked. Well...we are being attacked more and more (over there) because we REFUSE to put our guns down.

We cannot alleviate fear by making others fear us. We cannot gain true security operating with the mindset that our security is not secure.

But at least with putting down our arms and taking up shovels and work gloves...the attacks and danger would soon subside and would not return unless we returned to our former fear-mongering ill-fated attempts to 'secure peace by preparing for war.'

People do NOT respond to love with fear (maybe at first but that is an issue of mistrust and is both reasonable and expected given the situation)...people respond to fear with fear and to love with love.

If we would approach the lack with the understanding that the problem is not lack of resources but lack of sharing and cooperation...prosperity world wide would be inevitable. But the more we fear not having...the more others go without...this is true internationally and also within our nation...

I meant to make this more succinct but I'm rambling.
I will try to return and put my thoughts in better order, according to the points you set forth. I was doing that but got interrupted with a guest and now my mind is recalcitrant (love that word!)

reply to post by pajoly


You make a good point about the lack of education funding and the dogmatic aspects of the modern Republican Party, but your post has a clear leftist bias. It would be nice to at least moderate your comments about the Right/MI complex/American exceptionalism with something criticizing the left.