Belief in God/Jesus through Personal experiences.

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by apushforenlightment
So go the mystic/spiritual route instead?

Why would one go any mystical or superstitions route? Why not just face reality? Why not determine what abilities we have as homo sapiens? We can participate in the X Games or sew a limb back on. We can make and program computers. We're pretty amazing.

We can even contemplate our own mortality and convince ourselves of things we only wish were true. We can manipulate other people by the droves to do pretty much anything we wish. We're gullible and devious all at the same time. We're afraid of thoughts.

Being advanced has its price. I can now tell you this over the internet because we are amazing. Perhaps someone will try to control this information because we are, as animals tend to be, selfish. Perhaps this information is a threat. Threats trigger survival tactics in animals.

I am the most important person to me. It's natural and has insured our species survival. I think our species' general comfort and life span depends on how we handle our survival mechanisms using and reacting to our advanced intellect.

Why not just face reality? That is my point. From my point of view you have a limited understanding on what reality is and you are hiding from it by conditioned idea of what reality is that you have been taught. If you have not experianced bliss/the oneness then you have not experianced part of what it mean to be alive from my point of view. But that is your choice as with every other experiance and when you are ready you can seek it.

edit on 25-8-2012 by apushforenlightment because: spellchecking

I've experienced bliss and oneness. However, I'm facing reality AND trying to bring bliss and oneness to all. I'm doing this without using the reality which I was taught. That reality was a control system. Some were aware they were in it, and some denied to themselves they were in it. Children are OFTEN taught a reality which is contrary to the truth. At some point, we can no longer excuse the abuser because he or she had been abused.

People need reprogramming. I think we really know what is going on and can reprogram ourselves for the truth in an instant. It's too scary for most to go against how they are, though. You still get to remember your old self. I'm sure you'll still like a lot of who you were.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Oh that vision is 20 years old, and my days of talking to him fell on deaf ears every time. No, the vision was just a dream. But, my dream of convincing every religious person in the world to forget about god and the afterlife and experience the here and now - well, that might be more than just a dream.

That's disappointing. Did you talk to God often back then?

I guess that's why the Bible puts such emphasis on faith.

Jesus stressed that point again, even to doubting Thomas.

John 20:26-29

26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

As for one of your earlier comments that seeing is believing, we'll all get that chance.

Mark 13:24-26

24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Originally posted by jiggerj
Jesus/God refuses to reveal himself to unbelievers - the ones that need not just more proof, but tangible proof? In the biblical account, Jesus allowed Doubting Thomas to stick his finger in his wounds, yet the doubting Thomas of today gets nothing.

There are literally millions of ex-doubting "Thomas's" that God revealed himself to, many like myself are right here on ATS.

I bet that many of them would LOVE to see the expression on your face when Jesus shows up at YOUR house...

Here are two right off the top of my head:



The Amazing Story of Kirk Martin

reply to post by Deetermined

As for one of your earlier comments that seeing is believing, we'll all get that chance.

Mark 13:24-26
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

The sun is not going to be darkened.....

the moon will continue to reflect the sun's light.....

the stars of heaven will continue being stars, eventually becoming supernovae...and the whole cycle will begin again.

Those few seconds of supernova explosion will expel the carbon/hydro/oxy (whatever combo is required)...that creates minerals, life, water, plants......

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

No, "he" is not coming in the clouds with great power and glory. Perhaps an ET overlord, but not the "Son of man Jesus".....

Sorry, just....this is so not going to happen.
It's not.
*sigh*
If it does, I will polish your heaven-boots for eternity......and also proclaim Jesus as Lord.....

Sorry my friend, but you just don't understand prophetic language. Let me translate, then WATCH it come to be.

Originally posted by wildtimes
The sun is not going to be darkened.....

The Sun will be darkened indeed as "Christianity" as we know it will pass away.

Originally posted by wildtimes
the moon will continue to reflect the sun's light.....

The Moon (Islam) will be turned to blood (Happening NOW) and then will not shed her light.

Originally posted by wildtimes
the stars of heaven will continue being stars, eventually becoming supernovae...and the whole cycle will begin again.

The Stars (Judaism) will fall from their appointed place in heaven.

All these things and so much more will pass us by into the depths of oblivion.

It is happening as we speak!

Am I really the only one who sees what is going on? Am I really the only one who understands all these damned books?

Prophecy is FOR unbelievers.

Blessed are they who believe having not seen!

Those who need to see to believe, oh what things you will see.

Oh what a world we have made.

God help them!

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

I AM HE!

reply to post by Nooneimparticular

Sorry my friend, but you just don't understand prophetic language. Let me translate, then WATCH it come to be.
.....Oh what a world we have made.

God help them!
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
I AM HE!

You are??!!! Wowza!
Well, cool. Very, very cool....welcome back.

Oh, I get prophetic language....
and yeah, sure, I'm watching.

reply to post by Nooneimparticular

God is loving God anyway, he sends a plague, then sends the cure. He makes a man lame, then picks him up.
He makes a man blind, then restores his sight. He takes man deaf then restores his hearing.

If you are serious about god being a loving god after writing the rest of this, I am curious as to what you think love is.

Let's say you want to end a relationship with your lover, and your lover says, "If you leave, I will kill myself." Your lover is insane, right?

But if a god says to Abraham, "Go and kill your son," and then says something along the lines of , "No wait, I was kidding! I just wanted to know if you really loved me (or feared me)." To you this is perfectly sane, right?

Gotta tell ya, if you answer yes, what god did to Abraham was sane, then there's no need for further discussion with you.

reply to post by jiggerj

I'm pretty sure you missed the point. Watch the video while thinking, "God loves me". Turns out God is a particular kind of woman. I'm waiting for the book.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Nooneimparticular

Originally posted by jiggerj
So, if you have personal experiences other than those mentioned above, do tell, DO TELL!

Before I would share my experience with you, I would like to know if what I would say would fall on solid rock and thus not take root, or if the soil is ready for planting.

Tell me my friend, and please consider this very carefully, what kind of experience would leave you with no doubt?

What would you like to see?

I've presented this list many times. In order to believe beyond doubt I would need to witness events such as these:

1. Amputated arms and/or legs miraculously cured.
2. Two mountains side by side, only one of them is defying gravity (as only a god can produce) and floating thirty feet in the air.
3. God or Jesus appearing in the sky and speaking to everyone on earth.

Experiences that leave nothing BUT doubt:

Long lost rings found.
Someone telling me they've experienced god because the thought of god made them feel good.
A book full of inconsistencies and contradictions.

in the 1,2, 3 listed above..

Jesus healed the blind man right in front of the Pharisees and they STILL didn't believe the miracle.. and called it the work of Satan..

so, even though you saw this miracle, would you real believe it was God that did it..? because I could write a book about the things that God did for me over the last 30 years.. but, that doesn't mean that you'll believe it.. and Yes.. I'm talking specifics .. as in seeing the marks on His back.... but, haters will hate and scoffers will scoff, and mockers will mock..

Jesus plainly said.. that there will be those will not believe till He comes in the clouds.. by then, it'll be to late..

so.. if you REALLY want God to be real to you .. do what I did..

ask him to make Himself REAL to you as sincerely as you can.. I'm not talking about .. 'hey God .. show up would you.. "... that's pride.. I'm talking about a heart felt tears in the eye .. prayer.. down on your knees & closing your eyes kinda prayer..

the way most of us have come to know God.. and still know Him today.. but you see.. there are letters written about Him in the most Holy book of all the earth.. the New Testament.. but.. you have to ask yourself .. are these just stories and lies.. and contradictions .. or..

if they are real and did happen back then...........then there's only one path for you to follow.. ASK the One that performed them... it's more simpler than you think .....as a matter of truth... it's upon your very lips that will give you the answer..

I can tell you this much .. you're close to getting your answer ... if you seek for it with all your HEART (the mind, will & emotions)

Originally posted by Murgatroid

edit on 25-8-2012 by Murgatroid because: I felt like it..

You
can't
be
serious.
You just can't.

Originally posted by Komodo

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Nooneimparticular

Originally posted by jiggerj
So, if you have personal experiences other than those mentioned above, do tell, DO TELL!

Before I would share my experience with you, I would like to know if what I would say would fall on solid rock and thus not take root, or if the soil is ready for planting.

Tell me my friend, and please consider this very carefully, what kind of experience would leave you with no doubt?

What would you like to see?

I've presented this list many times. In order to believe beyond doubt I would need to witness events such as these:

1. Amputated arms and/or legs miraculously cured.
2. Two mountains side by side, only one of them is defying gravity (as only a god can produce) and floating thirty feet in the air.
3. God or Jesus appearing in the sky and speaking to everyone on earth.

Experiences that leave nothing BUT doubt:

Long lost rings found.
Someone telling me they've experienced god because the thought of god made them feel good.
A book full of inconsistencies and contradictions.

in the 1,2, 3 listed above..

Jesus healed the blind man right in front of the Pharisees and they STILL didn't believe the miracle.. and called it the work of Satan..

so, even though you saw this miracle, would you real believe it was God that did it..? because I could write a book about the things that God did for me over the last 30 years.. but, that doesn't mean that you'll believe it.. and Yes.. I'm talking specifics .. as in seeing the marks on His back.... but, haters will hate and scoffers will scoff, and mockers will mock..

Jesus plainly said.. that there will be those will not believe till He comes in the clouds.. by then, it'll be to late..

so.. if you REALLY want God to be real to you .. do what I did..

ask him to make Himself REAL to you as sincerely as you can.. I'm not talking about .. 'hey God .. show up would you.. "... that's pride.. I'm talking about a heart felt tears in the eye .. prayer.. down on your knees & closing your eyes kinda prayer..

the way most of us have come to know God.. and still know Him today.. but you see.. there are letters written about Him in the most Holy book of all the earth.. the New Testament.. but.. you have to ask yourself .. are these just stories and lies.. and contradictions .. or..

if they are real and did happen back then...........then there's only one path for you to follow.. ASK the One that performed them... it's more simpler than you think .....as a matter of truth... it's upon your very lips that will give you the answer..

I can tell you this much .. you're close to getting your answer ... if you seek for it with all your HEART (the mind, will & emotions)

I'm not seeking. This thread is about trying to FIRST look for average answers to unexplained experiences before dumping it all on a god. On a worldwide scale, did you ACTUALLY jump to the conclusion that god caused all the suffering in Haiti? Did you ACTUALLY jump to the conclusion that god caused AIDS because he hates homosexuals?

If you wouldn't automatically jump to these conclusions. If you first thought that there had to be natural causes behind these bad things, then why is it so hard to NOT jump to conclusions on the good things that happen on a personal level? I'm a mere human and I would not like to be rewarded for something I didn't do. Imagine what god must feel when billions of people do it everyday.

Originally posted by gentledissident
Turns out God is a particular kind of woman.

I heard a song in the work rotation today that made me wonder. It was about a woman who had a home and a family for years and then just left for another man with no remorse nor apparent reason. I hear about this situation sometimes. I now wonder if it's the "lady" realizing her mortality and thinking, "If life is all I have, surely I should do better than this fat old man". Anyway, I'm going off topic and becoming uncharacteristically sexist

EDIT: I told my GF this theory. She replied, "I've never thought about it that way....(evil grin)....until now."

Originally posted by jiggerj
I'm not seeking.

Originally posted by God
You can't be serious.
You just can't.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by jiggerj

 

After that, you scepticism and doubt reigned supreme..?! How sad.

What's so hard about "love God above all, and, neighbor as self"?

Why is it so hard to accept that people dream about a god? I'm sure Muslims dream about Mohamed. Jews about...?...Abraham?

If you have a "vision" about Jesus, and a Muslim has a "vision" about Mohamed, which is truly a vision and which is just a dream?

Dreams are when people are asleep, visions are when people are awake and eyes open but see the vision, not the world around them.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by mcamp2011
This was the second vision I had in my life, and it was a lif changing vision for me as it confirmed the reality, and the existance of God for me. Again, this was a vision, NOT a dream

That is a lovely vision, mcamp. I cannot (will not) even try to take away the specialness you felt, whether it came from your own mind when it was in need, or from god. What I will tell you is that I also had a dream that would have confirmed the existence of god for you. But, again, this was a dream, NOT a vision.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by mcamp2011
This was the second vision I had in my life, and it was a lif changing vision for me as it confirmed the reality, and the existance of God for me. Again, this was a vision, NOT a dream

That is a lovely vision, mcamp. I cannot (will not) even try to take away the specialness you felt, whether it came from your own mind when it was in need, or from god. What I will tell you is that I also had a dream that would have confirmed the existence of god for you. But, again, this was a dream, NOT a vision.

reply to post by jiggerj


Do you regularly take advice from staggering drunks?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by jiggerj

 

Do you regularly take advice from staggering drunks?

I should. There have been enough of them in my life. I still can't get away from them! Never met my father, but after WWII he came home to be the town drunk. Luckily I never picked up on the habit. Coffee, smokes, and gambling, but no booze.

Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by SisyphusRide

since when did non believers need proof anyway? can it be they are searching for God...

Since... forever. Where have you been all the time? That is their main reason for NOT believing...

I'll repeat this one since it's so good

"Thou would’st not seek me hadst thou not found me"

and I'll add another...

"That we seek lives in our souls"

reply to post by awakendminds


Thank you for sharing that.
Yes, when God truly reveals part of Himself to you, it is almost too much to comprehend. It is like your heart and soul just shatter into pieces from His overwhelming compassion and goodness, and we find ourselves only able to kneel in that profound shadow of grace, simply holding those tattered fragments of our flawed nature, our past mistakes, our regrets, our stubborness and pride, all the things that we immediately become acutely aware of separating us from His perfect wholeness.