Atheism is a paradox and it results in chaos and madness.

Atheism is:
1. a paradox and
2. it results in chaos and madness.

Paradox because in its premise it says that it does not believe in God, because their is justification reliant on the current knowledge base of science (which does not look for God), all the while others say there is a God. So it's a choice to not believe in something, yet the rest of life requires belief and faith for everything else.

I Understand the "no belief" part. However, the same atheist will live their lives entirely reliant upon belief and ,dare I say, faith that they will wake up tomorrow, when in all actuality, tomorrow isn't promised, is unknown, and there is no proof that tomorrow will be ...until we actually get there. We don't know that tomorrow is real until we actually will experience it, which then there will be no doubt.

So it is in the rest of life. Reliant on a set of intellectual principles (thoughts/memories) which can be factored down to a set of relative beliefs, i.e (my favorite team, favorite kind of weather, how best to protect myself, quickest route from a to b, etc etc)

and

Chaotic Madness because in the event that there were no God and all of this is just free floating randomness that somehow over gazillions of years evolved into what we have now, then by all means we should be living by principles of survival of the fittest, kill or be killed, etc. If we come from Monkeys and their is no soul made by God, then we too should be flinging crap at each other, having kids with as many women as possible to guarantee our lineages, and destroy all barriers no matter the cost.

Continually, any meaning, morals, ethics, love, happiness, and so on is just a bunch of brain synapses and chemical exchanges that are relative and in the grand scheme of things really don't mean anything at all and therefore there really is no higher purpose than to live like an animal and be no different than what we see in nature, which by the way shows no mercy.

If that's the case, rob banks, preggo to all hot chicks, anyone in your way killed, conquer and be alpha of a big territory, and fight/kill of anyone who tries to take your position, as in nature.

^^^^^^^^^^^^ That is why Atheism never worked for me and so I continued to dig further and deeper into areas like philosophy, religions, mysticism, NDE's, and all other possible clue giving ares of studies besides just science (which in my eyes isn't discovering anything new, but is merely uncovering details of the whole which have always been)

Open for discussion

Atheism is a state of mind that would suggest a more sane mind than it's religious counterpart!

The reasons are fairly obvious... No Supernatural beliefs involved , just hard facts, usually scientific in nature.

The religious type on the other hand is driven to worship a sky deity, and as we all know millions have died
as a result of this crazy way of thinking.

Originally posted by dominicus
Atheism is:
1. a paradox and
2. it results in chaos and madness.

Paradox because in its premise it says that it does not believe in God, because their is justification reliant on the current knowledge base of science (which does not look for God), all the while others say there is a God. So it's a choice to not believe in something, yet the rest of life requires belief and faith for everything else.

How does the rest of life require belief and faith for everything else?

I believe I will wake up in the morning because that is the experience I've had so far. I also know, from a scientific standpoint, that my body is healthy and therefore can be relied upon to wake up. Now I recognize the randomness of life, and events occurr beyond our control that greatly impact our lives.

I don't consider myself an atheist, more of an agnostic. I don't know about God, or if God exists, and I'm not sure its possible for us to know this. Just my two cents.

reply to post by rigel4

The religious type on the other hand is driven to worship a sky deity, and as we all know millions have died as a result of this crazy way of thinking.

85-100 million alone dead because of communism. So communism is crazy way of thinking? Millions dead because of guns, so guns are now crazy? Millions dead from thousands of other ideals beside religion, so now are all those ideals crazy? Like jealosy, power, greed, money, etc....... let's get rid of money then too....

Get rid of religion and a killer will find something else to kill in the name of. Matter of time before a killing happens in the name of Atheism. Or it may have happened already..... If it has or does ...then by your own logic we should get rid of atheism as well, if its responsible for a death or deaths plural

Religion causes obsessive behavior dedicated to deities of destruction.
Failure to oblige results in execution or crucifixion.
Why can't the animals see god and angels and demons? A Sloth can hear and see while it sits there all day and eats eats leaves and still ain't as stupid as you are.

Human= Tripped out hallucinogenic ***nut cracks. Stay away from them. They communicate to things that might be there, because someone threatened to kill them if they didn't (weather it was there or not)

reply to post by smyleegrl

I believe I will wake up in the morning because that is the experience I've had so far. I also know, from a scientific standpoint, that my body is healthy and therefore can be relied upon to wake up.

You've had the experience in the past, but you have yet to have tomorrow's experience of waking up. Your assuming you will have tomorrow. What about the instances of a 1st job interview, first child birth, first kiss, etc ....all new experiences are one's you haven't had thus far, yet you go in them with belief/faith that you will somehow manage .......manage a future experience you have no proof will ever happen 100%

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

I believe I will wake up in the morning because that is the experience I've had so far. I also know, from a scientific standpoint, that my body is healthy and therefore can be relied upon to wake up.

You've had the experience in the past, but you have yet to have tomorrow's experience of waking up. Your assuming you will have tomorrow. What about the instances of a 1st job interview, first child birth, first kiss, etc ....all new experiences are one's you haven't had thus far, yet you go in them with belief/faith that you will somehow manage .......manage a future experience you have no proof will ever happen 100%

Very true, but what you call my belief, or my faith, is still based upon empirical evidence. Whereas a belief in a diety has no empirical evidence, just anecdotal evidence. A far bigger assumption of faith.

By the way, wonderful topic. S&F

reply to post by Parksie

Religion causes obsessive behavior dedicated to deities of destruction. Failure to oblige results in execution or crucifixion. Why can't the animals see god and angels and demons? A Sloth can hear and see while it sits there all day and eats eats leaves and still ain't as stupid as you are.

so if were equal to sloths why are you not sitting around with a harem of 3 women (the way males sloths usually have 3 females around) and sitting lazily all day eating? Kill or be killed as nature hath intended. Go have a thousand kids and don't worry about raising them or paying for their education or teaching them anything practical .....as in nature, the female raises the pups

reply to post by dominicus

What about the instances of a 1st job interview, first child birth, first kiss, etc ....all new experiences are one's you haven't had thus far, yet you go in them with belief/faith that you will somehow manage ...

Do you mean "you" to smyleegirl? Or "you" as in "a person".....???

She has established that she is married with a(t least one) child...

Anyway, yes, we carry on based on the assumption that we will prevail. It's called 'hope'.

reply to post by smyleegrl

Very true, but what you call my belief, or my faith, is still based upon empirical evidence. Whereas a belief in a diety has no empirical evidence, just anecdotal evidence. A far bigger assumption of faith.

a basic dictionary based definition of "empirical evidence" being "evidence relating to or based on experience or observation."

In that case, there are plenty of folks, albeit a minority, who say the both experience and observe God.

Now what

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by rigel4

 

The religious type on the other hand is driven to worship a sky deity, and as we all know millions have died as a result of this crazy way of thinking.

85-100 million alone dead because of communism.

Communism is not atheism.
Atheism is solely the belief that there is no creator. That's all there is to atheism. No hidden agenda, no power struggle (except to be free of religious constraints).
Communism, on the other hand, is a way to control the masses, just like every religion.

reply to post by dominicus

then we too should be flinging crap at each other,

LOL, we do that here everyday.

I will be reading, hopefully I will learn something, what bothers me most is that people wont entertain the possibilities, and this is becoming an exercise in futility.

Peace, love your enemies, my new mantra.

reply to post by dominicus

If you want a sloth type of guy with 3 women why don't you join the muslims they have more than than 4 wifes

reply to post by wildtimes

Anyway, yes, we carry on based on the assumption that we will prevail. It's called 'hope'.

So your relying on "hope" for all of these unknown unseen future factors that you can't prove to be real or actual until they realistically and actually happen .....but others' having hope that God, who also can be said is an unknown and unseen future factor is null and void?

same shoe different foot

Atheism is self deceptive delusion. I say this because there is no way that all things exist just because they do, and there is no way that order and symmetry is everywhere just because it is. The universe has a planer and we are in that planner's design. This is why atheism is always the futile attempt to resist the truth perceptible to the senses every day.

Of course the atheist has the counter argument that satisfies them. They always do. It just isn't valid that's all.

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

Very true, but what you call my belief, or my faith, is still based upon empirical evidence. Whereas a belief in a diety has no empirical evidence, just anecdotal evidence. A far bigger assumption of faith.

a basic dictionary based definition of "empirical evidence" being "evidence relating to or based on experience or observation."

In that case, there are plenty of folks, albeit a minority, who say the both experience and observe God.

Now what

Then, it stand to reason that each person's concept of reality will be different and based upon personal experiences.

It does not invalidate a belief in the spiritual world, nor does it confirm it. After all, what we experience we must interpret, and we do get it wrong from time to time.

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

Very true, but what you call my belief, or my faith, is still based upon empirical evidence. Whereas a belief in a diety has no empirical evidence, just anecdotal evidence. A far bigger assumption of faith.

a basic dictionary based definition of "empirical evidence" being "evidence relating to or based on experience or observation."

In that case, there are plenty of folks, albeit a minority, who say the both experience and observe God.

Now what

The difference is that empirical evidence offers observable action. I've seen lots of people wake up in the morning, therefore I can use this evidence to assume that I too will wake up. Billions of people have jobs, so in all probability I will also find work.

The 'plenty of folks' that you speak of only assign a god to what they see and experience. They make a leap of faith based on zero evidence. A dying friend survives a lifesaving surgery - praise god? No, praise medicine! Praise doctors! There is no connection whatsoever between a god and a lifesaving event. And, thank god for that! If I find out that a god has saved lives before, but didn't save my sister's life, I am going to be royally P'Oed!

reply to post by Fromabove

Atheism is self deceptive delusion. I say this because there is no way that all things exist just because they do, and there is no way that order and symmetry is everywhere just because it is. The universe has a planer and we are in that planner's design. This is why atheism is always the futile attempt to resist the truth perceptible to the senses every day. Of course the atheist has the counter argument that satisfies them. They always do. It just isn't valid that's all.

I hear you.

1 of my reasonings which made me shift away from Atheism was the following.

A. No God = No Purpose, No meaning, everything Random. Anything else said about life is random and relative ideas that have as their sole foundation ..... everything Random, no meaning, no purpose. Just animals and that's it

B. God = Purpose, ideal, meaning. There is a purpose that's higher, an achievable ideal, and a meaning for everything and it's up to us to find it and figure it out.

reply to post by dominicus


You make some good points. Atheism rests on the premise that there is no God at all. From one side of the mouth, they say no God possible, but from the other side of their mouth they claim that rational thinking is the supreme open mindset to new possibilities. This creates a feedback loop in the mind and is highly hypocritical. An open mindset and rational platform for discovery would never discount the most compelling and obvious conclusion that nature offers. The is no question that the study of geometry and mathematics in nature tell a story that reveals the very Creator Himself. Any Christ will tell you that they are entirely skeptical of founding belief and faith in a hidden Creator. This is why the bulk of Christians will search and seek with a truly open mind. We would never discount the possibility and would always welcome any basis for denying a God that demands our obedience. What we find when we look with open eyes is that God is the ultimate source of love and nurture for the seeker who is not afraid to yield to authority that is clearly divine by nature. The evidence for the axioms of belief are not contradictory to science in the least. Atheism, on the other hand, is a contradiction to all that rationality and logic stand for.

There is one very compelling reason that rational thinking demands a Creator. Science itself has come to this conclusion based on completely demonstrable processes of energy in motion and information in motion being one in the same. Collapsing wave function demands an observer be present for a choice to be made. Why does choice demand a chooser for purpose to be seen in matter? We live in a dimensional universe. This is a know axiom. Human observers live in the 3rd dimension, but observe the fourth by slice. We know the third dimension is where consciousness starts. Higher dimensions should have higher forms of consciousness that are not dependent on temporal states.

We see time as now, but we also know that the past and future are part of the overall sculpture of time. While the past is set by the events of now, the future is a choice of collapsing wave function and indeterminate for us, but not necessarily for higher dimensions. To make the future determined, an observer must select a choice from a slice of the fifth dimension probability space and collapse it into the fourth. Matter can only change states with choice by the observer. Apart from this choice, no matter can rise from chaos on its own. Chaos produces more chaos. The fifth dimension is regulated by law and only allows probable outcomes that are determined by yet another dimension. For this to occur, it is required that a governing force is conscious. We can easily demonstrate this in our own dimension.

This is where free will comes into play. Science would like us to believe that somehow, matter possessed a will to assemble for purpose, somehow knowing quality and quantity. It claims that the passage of time allowed non-conscious matter to collapse purposeful choice from the 5th dimension into the fourth to change itself. From this, natural selection allowed the stronger life to somehow gain greater ability and thought until sentient life emerges in an explosion of evolution on ONE SINGLE part of the timescale.

I will stop at this point and note the obvious. Any Atheist reading this will reply with the standard answer. They will say, "you obviously don't know how evolution works." They will say this, yet never offer any valid context to the statement. We will see what happens. See the link in my signature on my theory of existence. This theory is more compelling than any other you will read from science. Why? I recognize the trinity of light. It's not a duality. Any rational mind would see this.

A rational mind would see the fallacy and run. Rational thinking is not the problem here. Bias and hatred for God is the main delusion with this thinking. This is clearly evident when speaking with an Atheist for any amount of time. The conversation will quickly head toward anger and resentment toward the God they claim doesn't exist. If this is confronted with any amount of true rational thought, the bias of the Atheist then shifts to the person speaking with the same condescension and anger.

A true rational mindset would never revert to bias, condescension or anger. A rational mind would never discount a possibility that has axiomatic evidence that matches the theory and measurement of science itself. Lacking any clear basis for origins, the Atheist is left with faith based on pure pretext. Meantime, the believer sees the obvious connection between science and what the Bible actually says by multiple context, including quantum mechanics, cosmology, natural science, psychology, biology and an endless number of other disciplines. Having no ill word that can be leveled against the Bible, Atheism is nothing more than a fixed mindset of incredulity against the rational conclusion that can be reached by BOTH science and religion. The two agree, yet the Bible is the only one of the two that has not changed its words. What has changed is our own confusion over what it originally said. Science continues to confirm by the law of inverse squares. The closer we get to the source, the clearer the message emerges.

Originally posted by Fromabove

Atheism is self deceptive delusion. I say this because there is no way that all things exist just because they do, and there is no way that order and symmetry is everywhere just because it is. The universe has a planer and we are in that planner's design. This is why atheism is always the futile attempt to resist the truth perceptible to the senses every day.

Of course the atheist has the counter argument that satisfies them. They always do. It just isn't valid that's all.

Now hold on there. I am an atheist, but as improbable as it is I don't throw out the idea of a creator. Just as we manipulate microscopic material, WE could very well be under a scientist's microscope in a larger dimension than our universe. What I do throw out as utter nonsense is the concept of a perfect god, or any of the gods as set forth in religious texts.