What would my grandad have known as a 3rd degree mason?

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by GreatOwl

 

My friend, if ignorance is bliss, you mus be one happy SOB.
Be blissful!

Well, there's "information", and then there's "knowledge". The two are not the same. Some people think that they have eliminated their "ignorance" by accumulating lots of "information". In fact, "information" is used as a misdirection, to hide knowledge, to present propaganda, to mislead, to do all sorts of things, not just convey knowledge. So, one has to develop the skill to "extract" the knowledge from the information available.


Masons give out lots of "information" about their craft. But, that doesn't make any outsider wiser or more knowledgeable about their activities. The listener has to learn how to select the right parts of what is said, and piece together the underlying implication, to arrive at the state of knowing what goes on in the secret brotherhood.

Originally posted by GreatOwl

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by GreatOwl

 

My friend, if ignorance is bliss, you mus be one happy SOB.
Be blissful!

Well, there's "information", and then there's "knowledge". The two are not the same. Some people think that they have eliminated their "ignorance" by accumulating lots of "information". In fact, "information" is used as a misdirection, to hide knowledge, to present propaganda, to mislead, to do all sorts of things, not just convey knowledge. So, one has to develop the skill to "extract" the knowledge from the information available.


Masons give out lots of "information" about their craft. But, that doesn't make any outsider wiser or more knowledgeable about their activities. The listener has to learn how to select the right parts of what is said, and piece together the underlying implication, to arrive at the state of knowing what goes on in the secret brotherhood.

Or you could simply join freemasonry and get their knowledge first hand.

Originally posted by GreatOwl
Yes, I forgot, there are passwords too.

The passwords are not involved either because the proper mode of giving them is cubersome and not suited to greeting persons in public. The passwords are rarely, if ever, given outside of lodge, they serve no purpose. The questions used to qualify are not even in the ritual and are only learned when one travels to another lodge. Please stop infering anything other than this simple explanation.

Additonally, there were, and still are, open air lodges that do not meet in any building but under the open sky.

Originally posted by GreatOwl
Why, for example, does the masonic lodge exclude the light of the sun? Why rooms without windows?

It is a homage to when Speculative Masonry first formed and in some instances was open to harassment from the Monarchies. Masons typically met in upper chambers which afforded privacy and security from aprehension or eavesdroppers by powers that did not appreciate its liberal, free-thinking outlook on humanity.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Hell, around here the best way to tell if someone is a Mason is to ask to see a current dues card and a photo ID.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
Hell, around here the best way to tell if someone is a Mason is to ask to see a current dues card and a photo ID.

Yes, but Josephus once spoke of using his photo identification to procure alcoholic beverages for some underage demons. They all got plastered on Falernum wine and invoked Asmodeus who went on a crazed rampage throughout Asia Minor. That s**t was epic.

reply to post by network dude

Dang it! I'll be in class still! Damn timezones!

reply to post by GreatOwl

Apparently even sarcasm is lost on you.

Freemasonry doesn't stem from Zoroastrianism. Many things can be seen to influence Freemasonry and you may see similar symbolism. Actually, Saturn isn't tied with Zoroastrianism or the legend of Mithra, now you're mixing them up with Roman mythology. Unless you're trying to talk about Roman Mithraism, but then again your kind of off on some things.

One could easily point out that Christianity was influenced by the legend of Mithra and the Zoroastrian religion. How ignorant are people who damn others and infer they are Satanic when you are completely ignorant of the early years of Christianity.

All those who made this pact with the chief, became "Mithra" buddies, a word that etymology says evolved into "mates".

Actually it doesn't so you have either been misinformed or you just made this up.

The word actually has Germanic and Danish roots meaning "companion, or messmate (one eating at the same table). Nor was this word used just by pirates, but it was a term used by those of any naval/nautical profession.

reply to post by BlueNose

It would make the meetings a bit more interesting

reply to post by GreatOwl

So what are we to think when you make things up?

Why, for example, does the masonic lodge exclude the light of the sun?

We actually just did an outdoor degree this last Saturday. I've also been to one in Arizona. We also have our windows open when we do the 3rd degree ceremony in Silver City. Where do you get such foolishness?

Why rooms without windows?

Many of those that do not have windows in the building or at least have them covered, do it for privacy? Do you not cherish your privacy?

Do you know that the Cult of Mithra had exactly this requirement for their meeting place.

According to who?

In the old days, they picked caves, or dug large caverns in the ground. The exclusion of "light" is very symbolic. The need to operate in the "dark" is telling.

Plus Lodges that meet in the evening do it out of the convenience of the members who have stuff like jobs, school, and so forth to do during the daytime. Many Lodges that meet on the weekend meet during daylight hours, but regardless most Lodges are very well lit. My Lodges has a really good lighting system for the size of the room it is in.

Think of how the Church meets, by contrast, with rooms filled with sunlight entering through stained glass windows.

You've never been to a large or "cathedral" size Masonic building have you? Probably not. The Masonic Temple in Philly is amazing and has tons of windows to let light in for some of its rooms (as not all rooms are stationed against the exterior wall of the building so windows would be utterly pointless).

The need to exclude the "light" while doing "good" works. That's a paradox.

You really, really don't know anything about Freemasonry if you think we exclude "light" symbolic or literal.

reply to post by GreatOwl

I agree with you a bit about the need to extract knowledge from information, but I disagree that we're misleading by just putting out "information". I have published plenty on what could be seen as knowledge on the Craft.

I have put out honest information that does not mislead.

Here is a question for you: Why do you feel so entitled that you think you deserve to know what goes on behind private doors?

Originally posted by KSigMason

Here is a question for you: Why do you feel so entitled that you think you deserve to know what goes on behind private doors?

I think the general answer here is that as long private doings have only private consequences, then it's only of concern to those who meet in private. But, any private activity with public consequences becomes candidate for inspection by members of the public. We are entitled to know of those things that have impact on our lives. That which has no impact, is irrelevant to us.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
They all got plastered on Falernum wine and invoked Asmodeus who went on a crazed rampage throughout Asia Minor. That s**t was epic.

And the stars tell us more, like whose minds are controlled by hidden entities, that celebrate their responses, and who is as yet un-possessed and truly "free".

But, any private activity with public consequences becomes candidate for inspection by members of the public. We are entitled to know of those things that have impact on our lives. That which has no impact, is irrelevant to us.

What makes you think that anything that occurs in a Masonic Lodge -- most of which is comprised of ritual work which is freely available to read in the public domain - has any bearing on the public?

On this premise, you would need to make public the minutes of every church, fraternal organization, sorority, and private institution under the sun. Private institutions are not public institutions. Masonry is a private fraternity, and as such, is not subject to public demands. It is no different than any other private organization.

reply to post by GreatOwl

Well, you seem to be using faulty logic as you wouldn't know what was private unless you snooped first to ensure it didn't have a "public consequence" and thus would no longer be "private", but would be "private upon an approved basis" which is not private anymore. Privacy exists independent of approval of external entities (whether one person or a group), so what you want is not privacy.

In America particularly, to force your way into our Lodges to pacify your suspicions would violate my rights and the rights of all the Lodge members. In reality, you don't have the right to know what we do in private by the very definition of the word 'private' (which is synonymous with secrecy).

For the most part, we own the building or pay the rent which entitles us to our privacy. We are free men, citizens, and entitled to privacy. We don't need the approval of you or the suspicious to exist or operate. Here in the United States I am protected by the 1st and 4th Amendment.

From your words you'd impact our lives, our rights, to placate your suspicions. That's not right, your rights end where mine begins. You cannot usurp my rights over paranoia.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

What makes you think that anything that occurs in a Masonic Lodge -- most of which is comprised of ritual work which is freely available to read in the public domain - has any bearing on the public?

The large percentage of public figures present among the membership gives us cause for concern. If no judges, policemen, politicians, etc were members of the craft, it would largely remain an obscure club to the rest of us. But, when the people we put our trust in, are holding secret meetings in mysterious brotherhoods, with strange rules of secrecy requiring members to pledge their allegiance to the order first before the public oaths, then, of course, "it makes us think", as you so artfully put it.

Originally posted by KSigMason
In reality, you don't have the right to know what we do in private by the very definition of the word 'private' (which is synonymous with secrecy).

A private person has right to privacy, but a public figure has obligation to allow us to peek into his private activities whenever we feel there might be good reason. Whoever doesn't like that, can simply retire from public life, and return to become a private citizen once again, to enjoy all the rights of private citizens. Nobody forces anyone to take up public office of any kind. To take up public office is to give up some private rights.

reply to post by GreatOwl

Except when that peaking breaks into other's rights. If a public figure belongs to Masonry, you cannot 'peak' into our Tyled meetings as it infringes on our (the others of the assembly) rights. Just because he's a member doesn't give him or you the right to force your way into our halls. Even if he wanted to he couldn't allow non-members in where they are not allowed.

You still seem to have no problem trampling others rights to suit your agenda. I find that disgusting.

Why not dictate what church or religion a public official has to be? Why not. Public officials don't have to always allow such intrusion, this is only a luxury extended to the public. Far too many have a kind of "entitlement syndrome" today. Public officials have the same rights as any citizen.

Originally posted by GreatOwl
And the stars tell us more, like whose minds are controlled by hidden entities...

Just the fact that people believe in 'hidden entities' (?) is quite telling in its ridiculousness.

reply to post by GreatOwl



What exactly do you (and others) think these judges , politicians , cops and other public figures are doing in the lodge ? I have several public figures in my lodges and one thing you and other antis' need to remember , they are sharing the lodge with everyday , run of the mill blue collar workers , the out of work , the-unemployed , republicans , democrats , men of various religious beliefs , and so on and so forth . Do you honestly think they are plotting on the general public and we who are Masons but would be part of the "General public" would sit idly by ?

If I knew these politicians/judges/cops where trying to screw us (the general public) over , I would shout it from the roof tops because I , like so many others , live pay check to pay check , I get screwed over by the government just like everyone else and I dislike most politicians as much as the next guy . If they wanted to plot to run our lives , take over the world etc; etc; then a Masonic lodge IS NOT the place to do it , as it is chock full of us struggling to get by in these trying times .

And before you throw the old "You took an Oath...." bit , Yes I took an oath , but not one that allows others to screw over myself , my family and friends and the general population . Like I said , if I knew something was going on that was detrimental to the people I would take it to the streets , the papers , the news , the internet .

Originally posted by GreatOwl

Originally posted by KSigMason

Here is a question for you: Why do you feel so entitled that you think you deserve to know what goes on behind private doors?

I think the general answer here is that as long private doings have only private consequences, then it's only of concern to those who meet in private. But, any private activity with public consequences becomes candidate for inspection by members of the public. We are entitled to know of those things that have impact on our lives. That which has no impact, is irrelevant to us.

edit on 29-8-2012 by GreatOwl because: (no reason given)

ok then fine. If you drive/purchased a car or if you live in a house, condo whatever I now you had to have a Social Security number or some sort of an ID number to purchase these items. Since I KNOW this then let me have your social security number. Oh Since it's public knowledge, I have the right to go to county Gov. to see where you live, how much you paid for your house and who finance it. If you don't give me your SS# then you must be hiding something.

Any good Christian would not have a problem with giving up they SS# right? I;m sure I can find a Bible verse to back this up.

Originally posted by GreatOwl
The large percentage of public figures present among the membership gives us cause for concern.

Like who? Surely you have names of these public figures who are confirmed Masons…

Originally posted by KSigMason
Except when that peaking breaks into other's rights. If a public figure belongs to Masonry, you cannot 'peak' into our Tyled meetings as it infringes on our (the others of the assembly) rights. Just because he's a member doesn't give him or you the right to force your way into our halls. Even if he wanted to he couldn't allow non-members in where they are not allowed.

We don't really want the right to enter your halls, just the right to prevent the public officials from entering.

You still seem to have no problem trampling others rights to suit your agenda. I find that disgusting.

We don't want to trample on your rights at all. We want to ensure that the people we put our trust in have our rights in their focus, and not some private institutions goals in mind instead.

Why not dictate what church or religion a public official has to be? Why no

Because the church lets us come in and see what the public officials are doing while they are at church. There is no need to worry about the church affiliations. I can walk into any church and sit and witness. The public is invited to church meetings. And there are no oaths of secrecy required by church members. In fact, most churches encourage members to spread the word, and tell of all things that go on there. So, the church is exactly opposite in nature to Freemasonry.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by GreatOwl
And the stars tell us more, like whose minds are controlled by hidden entities...

Just the fact that people believe in 'hidden entities' (?) is quite telling in its ridiculousness.

No more ridiculous than people to take secret oaths seriously.