I can add to infinity

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


LOL my head hurts too thanks to you. I am a old fart and I've been thinking about this for a long time. I've graduated with degrees in math and CS and minor in physics and a few philosophy classes. Believe me... my head have hurt ever since. Thank you for bringing it up!

One thing that doesn't make sense.... and yet possible.

There's NOTHING.

And yet we exist. We're here!

How is that possible?

Maybe our minds are the nothing and the universe is the something? Maybe that's the coexistence of the two?

I'm just throwing ideas out there.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


LOL yeah. This is a old philosophical question. I gave out a few links. I'm just too much of a old fart to really remember and really explain lol.

You could have explained it better in your OP though.

reply to post by Deaf Alien


I'm not sure I follow you. You mean the concept of nothing?

Maybe the immaterial (our minds ((where concepts are made))) are the nothing and the material (the universe) is the something?

reply to post by Deaf Alien


I'm not sure if I know what I'm explaining right now.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I'm not sure I follow you. You mean the concept of nothing? Maybe the immaterial (our minds ((where concepts are made))) are the nothing and the material (the universe) is the something?

Everything is possible, correct?

It's not a concept. It is just what it is.

If our minds are nothing, then we are nothing... in other words, we don't exist. And yet we are here.

BTW what is "something"? Lol my brain's overheating. Thanks!

reply to post by Deaf Alien


I don't believe nothing ever existed.... so to speak

Eternity means there is no beginning and no end. For nothingness to be there would have had to be a beginning, but if eternity is actual then there is no beginning.

There is no nothingness and there never was.

Whether it's an eternal physical universe or a multiverse or universe #17 or the Mormon God... ad infinitum ad nauseum, we are traced back to acknowledging the origin of origin which essentially can only amount to 1) Something cannot come from nothing 2) Something can come from nothing. I have every reason to believe in the former and no reason to believe in the later. Therefore I accept no matter where one reduces it to one is faced with accepting an eternal component to reality and thus the omission of 'nothingness' ever being a part of the equation.

*opens 6th beer*

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

I don't believe nothing ever existed.... so to speak

We talked about "actual infinity" earlier. That includes the possibility and "actuality" of itself not existing.

How can something exist and how can something not exist? And get this.... how can both be?

Eternity means there is no beginning and no end. For nothingness to be there would have had to be a beginning, but if eternity is actual then there is no beginning.

Here where it get tricky: when did it begin? Why now and not before or then?

There is no nothingness and there never was.

I agree about that. However, there is nothingness actually. It's both.

*opens 6th beer*

Lol bottoms up. I'm with you there.

reply to post by Deaf Alien


Maybe the something relies on the nothing to exist and vice versa? Without our bodies (something), our minds (nothing) could not exist. Without our minds, no-thing would exist.

Something nothing nothing something nothing? It feels like I'm going in circles here.

Infinity and Zero cannot possibly be the same thing.

If you have zero cans of Pepsi, you don't have any Pepsi at all.

If you have infinity cans of Pepsi, you have MORE than zero cans. You have an infinite amount of Pepsi. You can remove any amount of Pepsi and STILL have cans of Pepsi.

If you have zero cans of Pepsi you just don't have any. Add one can, you have only 1 can of Pepsi.

Zero and Infinity are the opposite of each other, not the same thing.

Please explain, using my Pepsi example, how zero and infinity are the same. Your left hand is empty, because there are zero cans of Pepsi, your right hand has a Pepsi in it, and a chain of Pepsi cans continues on forever and ever. It never stops. Just because there isn't a limit on it, doesn't mean you don't have anything. You just have so much Pepsi there is no limit to it. But it's still more than zero, it's a lot more than zero.

Another example, if you have zero cans of Pepsi, could you fill a swimming pool with Pepsi? No, because you don't have any. If you have infinity number of Pepsi cans, can you fill a swimming pool with Pepsi? Yes! And still have a bunch left over. Therefore, not the same thing.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


LOL now you see? This is a old question. Philosophers have been giving themselves headaches. And thanks to you I have an headache right now!

reply to post by James1982


If you have no pepsi, that would be the same amount you took away from infinity. You can never take away from infinity because it will always be infinity no matter how many cans you take out.

I don't know if you'll understand what I mean by that, but I get it.... kinda.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


James got a good point. Better explain what you mean better.

reply to post by Deaf Alien


You can't add to nothing or it wouldn't be nothing anymore. You can't subtract from nothing because there is nothing to subtract.

You can't subtract from infinity or it wouldn't be infinity anymore. You can't add anything to infinity because there is nothing to add.

Its the same concepts except flipped. Like two things on the opposite ends of a spectrum, but they are still part of the same spectrum.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Yeah it's a philosophical problem.

How I can add something to nothing when that "something" is in itself is nothing?

Let me give you an example that will blow your mind....

Let's say we have 2 sets:

One set is all positive integers.

The second set is all even positive integers.

Which one has the most numbers?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by James1982

 

If you have no pepsi, that would be the same amount you took away from infinity. You can never take away from infinity because it will always be infinity no matter how many cans you take out.

I don't know if you'll understand what I mean by that, but I get it.... kinda.

edit on 14-8-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

You can take away from infinity, it just won't effect infinity. If I have infinity cans of Pepsi, I can give away 1000 cans, and still have infinity cans. Those 1000 cans are obviously more than zero, and that didn't even effect infinity.

Although I think you are talking more on a philosophical level than a physical real life level like I am. I just visualize no cans, that means I don't have any. If I have infinity, I have SO many of them that I can drink or give away as many as I want and never ever run out. Which means I definitely have more than zero, or else I wouldn't be able to drink any

reply to post by Deaf Alien


Neither because there are an infinite amount of both.

That's one of Zeno's paradoxes. Half a number being equal to twice its amount.

reply to post by Deaf Alien

How can something exist and how can something not exist? And get this.... how can both be?

Here where it get tricky: when did it begin? Why now and not before or then?

That's the point of the idea of eternity. Both of those questions hold no meaning or relevance.

Something cannot not exist. Both can't be. It didn't begin. "why not now and not before" again is nonsensical to the idea of actual eternity i.e something having no beginning or end. I know it's an impossible prospect but no less impossible then any other prospect when it gets down to it. That was my point, when you get down to the origin of origin you're faced with such a prospect inevitably. But if you accept an etenal component, those questions are erroneous.

There is no nothingness and there never was.

I agree about that. However, there is nothingness actually. It's both.

Nothingness actually? Is this a mathematical concept? Because that seems to be in contradiction with you agreeing nothingness never was.

reply to post by James1982


Yes, infinity cannot exist in the physical world, only as a concept in our minds. That doesn't make the concept any less real though.