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Challenge Match: enjoies05 vs Druid42: Aliens at Area 51?

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posted on Aug, 9 2012 @ 12:02 PM
The topic for this debate is "The military installation known as Area 51 is not actually related to extra-terrestrials or extra-terrestrial craft. ”

enjoies05 will be arguing the "Pro" position and begin the debate.
Druid42 will be arguing the "Con" position.

Each debater will have one opening statement each. This will be followed by 3 alternating replies each. There will then be one closing statement each and no rebuttal.

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posted on Aug, 9 2012 @ 09:50 PM
First off thanks to adjensen for creating this debate thread and to our judges, and good luck to my opponent Druid42. Taking this side may not ATS friendly, but I’m sure we’ll have a great debate.

The military installation known as Area 51 is not actually related to extra-terrestrials or extra-terrestrial craft.

Area 51. To visitors here on AboveTopSecret, and to people all over, the name brings forth thoughts of secret government projects, UFOs, aliens, and other technology and conspiracy theories. We even have a dedicated forum for it here on ATS. But throughout this debate I will show that Area 51 is not actually related to extra-terrestrial (ETs) or ET craft by presenting my own side with facts and reasoning and answering to my opponent’s side.

Area 51, as most of us know is a military base in the Nevada desert, about 90 miles north of Las Vegas. Since the 1950's it has been used by the military and government to conduct secret experiments and develop new terrestrial aircraft and weapons. One of the first and most well know aircraft developed at Area 51 was the Lockheed U-2 - A high altitude reconnaissance aircraft used during the Cold War to gather intel on the Soviet Union. Its first flight happened at Area 51 on August 1st of 1955. Since then, other projects that Area 51 played a part in were the SR-71, Lockheed D-21, Lockheed Have Blue, and F-117 aircraft. As well as experiments and testing on captured foreign aircraft, like Soviet built. More recently projects worked on at Area 51 have included UAV technology and other stealth aircraft.

Throughout the debate I will talk about where the false rumors of ET crafts started from and why they continue, and why they are just that, false rumors. And how some of them were actually created to cover up for secret terrestrial aircraft and projects. As well as personal accounts from workers from the installation that reveal that Area 51 is not related to ET or ET craft.

The rumors that Area 51 was involved with ET and ET craft started around the time the Roswell incident occurred in 1947. From then on there have been many false claims of ET crafts being reverse engineered at the base, and even alien bodies being held on the base. Couple that with the intense secrecy surrounding Area 51 and the fact that for a very long time the US government didn’t even acknowledge the base exists, and you have the basis for many wild, false claims from conspiracist.

posted on Aug, 10 2012 @ 02:09 PM
For my opening, I'd like to thank adjensen for hosting this thread, and my opponent enjoies05 for participating. Many thanks go out to our panel of judges for volunteering their time to decide a winner of this very controversial subject.

Area 51 happens to be the most secure air base in the world, shrouded in mystery and speculation. Curiously enough, after the Roswell crash in 1947, the

38,400-acre land area once known as "Area 51" was withdrawn from public use by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission, a predecessor to the U.S. Department of Energy, more than 54 years ago under Public Land Order 1662 filed June 25, 1958.

We find two government entities, the US AEC, and the US Air Force working in conjunction on this area of land in Nevada, and any requests for information concerning base operations being staunchly denied by the US government itself. We'll discover further into the debate the reasons for such secrecy.

We'll also discover that the government has "acquired" more land around Area 51 since the original PLO, and has established a "no-fly" zone in the airspace above the secret base. Also, we will consider the eyewitness accounts of the residents of Nevada near the base, and examine the stringent measures enacted by base personnel and third party security contractors who dutifully guard the perimeter of the base. For such an isolated base, trespassing is a severe offense.

What are the "secrets" that Area 51 contains? To answer that, we will need to examine evidence from many sources, and consider all possibilities, to see that Area 51 is quite possibly more than just a military base.

posted on Aug, 10 2012 @ 10:21 PM
There are many reasons why rumors of ET craft and ET's in general are popular when talking about Area 51. But many of these reasons have explanations that dismiss them.

First off is sightings of ET craft and other UFO's. A popular pastime for UFO enthusiasts is to climb on top of nearby mountains and watch for unidentified aircraft in the skies above Area 51. Some might even see things they can't explain and think they are ET craft. However these are not. They are terrestrial craft that are routinely tested and developed at the base. They are different from normal aircraft that the public know of so to the average person they make look like something from outer space. A good example would be UAV technology being tested since they can look very odd and unlike traditional aircraft. Add flares, lights, and different flight patterns of these test runs to the equation and it's no surprise there are claims of alien technology.

Another point that conspiracists bring up as a sign of ET technology and craft being worked on at Area 51 is the high level of secrecy and security around the base. But it is needed. As we can see from the level of military projects worked on at Area 51, the base needs the upmost security. This comes in the form of hidden cameras and motion sensors, restricted fly space above and around the base, hired guards known as “camo dudes”, and the well-known sign letting you know that you can be shot if you approach the base. These measures are needed to preserve the safety of the United States. Needed to keep the edge on the enemies and be able to surprise them with their new technology and aircraft. Letting any information get out would be a matter of national security being at risk.

If any military installation really did have ET and ET craft being worked on at the base, would we know about it? Would the US government do these tests in Area 51, the place that every conspiracy theorist points to as the most likely spot? A place that countless books and TV stations have done specials on? Just like rumors of UFO's were started to cover up for secret plane projects, Area 51 rumors may very well be set up by the government to take the eyes away from another base doing projects with ETs. While all along Area 51 is not related to ET or ET craft. Just another disguise to keep the public looking elsewhere.

Socratic questions:

1) Where would the government ET craft or even an ET itself to bring to Area 51?

posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 02:55 PM
When examining the history and secrecy of Area 51, we find that there is an inordinate amount of effort to obfuscate the real purpose of the area. For this debate, I'll propose that the government is hiding something, and not necessarily just secret aircraft design, so I'll briefly outline a timeline which shows the expansion of the "Air Force's operating location near Groom Lake, Nevada", and leave it to the readers to contemplate why so much land expansion is required for a relatively remote testing base.

Three years after it's inception in 1955, (8 years after the Roswell incident), we find:

June 1958 An area comprised of 38,400 acres of land surrounding the Watertown base was officially withdrawn from public access under Public Land Order 1662. This rectangular addition to the Nevada Test Site was designated "Area 51."

And then they restrict the airspace to overflights:

August 1961 The airspace over Groom Lake became part of a new Restricted Area called R-4808N (replacing the former Prohibited Area P-275), that covered both the Nevada Test Site and Area 51. It prohibited overflights below 60,000 feet.

Which is then expanded, to include completely restricted airspace.

January 1962 The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) expanded the restricted airspace above Groom to 22 by 20 nautical miles. Eventually, the airspace was restricted continuously, at all altitudes.

If Area 51 is indeed just a military base, I find it odd that a 22 by 20 mile no-fly zone is sufficient to adequately test new experimental aircraft, when most of the "official" tests logged speeds at over 2200 mph.

Long before the events of 9/11 2001, when "National Security" became a paramount endeavor of our government, we witness the expansion of nearly three times the size of the original base.

August 1984 Approximately 89,000 acres of public land and private holdings northeast of Groom Lake were closed to the public for "national security reasons."

It is notable that the size of the original base has not expanded, just the surrounding areas are included as part of the base. To continue:

October 1993 The U.S. Air Force filed a notice in the Federal Register seeking to withdraw 3,972 acres of land from public on the eastern perimeter of the DREAMLAND section of the Nellis Air Force Range.

April 1995 The Air Force seized 5,000 more acres of public land to prevent civilians from viewing the base from nearby hilltops that had been overlooked in previous seizures.

We see the expansion from a 38,400 acre base to a whopping 136,372 acres! What exactly justifies a 97,972 acre expansion of a military base in a 37 year period of time? A handful of top-secret aircraft were developed during that time, hardly enough to justify the expansion, unless of course, there is ET technology being used, and it's disclosure would radically change the perceptions of society.

When a group of widows tried to file a wrongful death lawsuit against the government for improper disposal of "toxic" substances, and the death of their husbands (who were workers at Area 51), it resulted in the following "hush" order:

On 29 September 1995 President Bill Clinton signed Presidential Determination No. 95-45. It stated in part: "I find that it is in the paramount interest of the United States to exempt the United States Air Force's operating location near Groom Lake, Nevada from any applicable requirement for the disclosure to unauthorized persons of classified information concerning that operating location."

(Sources for all external text are Copyright © 1999-2012, Dreamland Resort)

Which basically states that the activities conducted at Area 51 are "classified", and civilians have no right to such information. Surely such secrecy points to an agenda involving ETs, otherworldly technology, and not just paranoia left over from a Cold War dramatization? No other military base in the world is exempt from governmental scrutiny, nor has the US Supreme Court ever rejected a case due to "national security" concerns. Save perhaps, the disclosure of ETs would somehow override justice in and of itself.

1) Where would the government ET craft or even an ET itself to bring to Area 51?

I have decided it is impossible to answer the Socratic question in it's current format. Will my opponent please clarify the nature of the question? Re-phrasing the question is imperative to being able to provide a meaningful response, which I will do straightforward in my next post.

posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 04:33 PM
First off I’d like to apologize for the confusion of my first Socratic question. If I may I will just re-ask it at the bottom of this post.

Area 51 is a very large base. But I do not think that the growth of the base indicates the presences of anything ET related. Why would the government not want to take advantage of the large amount of land available around the base? We may not know the full amount of what has been developed during those years of growth, but it has been more than a handful. The growth would be expected for a military base in the desert.

When a group of widows tried to file a wrongful death lawsuit against the government for improper disposal of "toxic" substances, and the death of their husbands (who were workers at Area 51), it resulted in the following "hush" order:

I will not say that there is not some shady stuff going on regarding Area 51. I think this is a good example of some not so great things happening at the base. And I’m sure there is plenty of things the government is doing at Area 51 that they don’t want to public to know about. But this secrecy in my mind does not equal an agenda related to ET’s and I find it hard to see why that connection would be made.

Rumors of ET’s at Area 51 like mentioned have been going on for over 50 years. If they have been true, why have they not come out with it yet? What are they waiting for? Or where has this technology come up in new inventions? We are not jetting around in flying saucers.

Where would the government acquire ET craft to do experiments on? As far as I know there have been no accounts of UFO’s being transported into the base or across the state or country. Unless they happened to land on the base they had to get there somehow.

Socratic Questions:

1) Where would the government acquire an ET craft or even an ET itself to do the alleged tests and experiments?

2) Why would the government pick Area 51 to do work with ET's when it is the first place any conspiracist would look?

posted on Aug, 11 2012 @ 10:09 PM
A quick clarification to Druid42's rebuttal statement, two above this one.

The link that he posted has an error in it which may result in people not being able to access his source.

The correct link is Copyright © 1999-2012, Dreamland Resort -- and kindly note that they are rather persnickety about their copyright, though the snippets posted here, I believe, are fine under the "Fair Use" doctrine.

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 12:37 AM
Socratic Answers:

1) Where would the government acquire an ET craft or even an ET itself to do the alleged tests and experiments?

From the Roswell incident, and any other non-publicized events. Speculation abounds as to whether there was a survivor from the Roswell event, but if there was, then we need to examine the event in further detail.

2) Why would the government pick Area 51 to do work with ET's when it is the first place any conspiracist would look?

To wit, it is the place every conspiracy theorist looks at. The secrecy, the land grabs, the Presidential "hush" order, due to "National Security" all support my theory of something extra-terrestrial being hid at the base. The perfect spot to hide ETs is in the most secure base in the world. It is a secluded and established base, far from the prying eyes of the media, and there is no accounting for the activities going on there. The ETs that have requested privacy in exchange for divulging information, deserve it.

Rumors of ET’s at Area 51 like mentioned have been going on for over 50 years. If they have been true, why have they not come out with it yet? What are they waiting for? Or where has this technology come up in new inventions?

Bold mine. The main example is the Microprocessor.

During the 1960s, computer processors were constructed out of small and medium-scale ICs each containing from tens to a few hundred transistors.

The first microprocessors emerged in the early 1970s

Uhm, advice from ET consorts helped to improve capabilities?

Since the early 1970s, the increase in capacity of microprocessors has followed Moore's law; this originally suggested that the number of transistors that can be fitted onto a chip doubles in one and half year but present technology doubles every two years,

We were able to develop microprocessors and make huge advancements in technology due to ET design plans. They offered us the method, and we had to adapt our manufacturing capabilities to produce them. However, the advent of the microprocessor led to the development of the internet, and a global communication system, and even if those events were instituted by humans, they had a basis in off world technology due to the mere fact that such innovations produced the ability to possibly unify our planet.

It's my theory that the ETs at Area 51, their home on this planet, have been guiding the development of our technology, under a blanket program of universal peace. They have also given us such technology, such as the Laser, also developed during the late 50s, and refined to the point today where lasers can correct vision. Medical advancements, it seems, are paramount to their agenda.

To further my point of ET involvement in the human race, all the major advancements in technology have been from "unique" insights from individuals. From the mainstream viewpoint, it is a "Eureka" moment, but I would like to point out that all modern innovations in technology have roots no further back than 1947, the date of the original ET crash, and any modern technological advancements are due to instructions from off world beings currently residing at Area 51.

Next I would like to present the testimonials of the people who were there, and who interacted with said ETs, and those who didn't. I am willing to produce "controversial" evidence, namely opinionated and biased interviews, but I believe it will shed some light on the topic at hand.

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 09:52 AM

The perfect spot to hide ETs is in the most secure base in the world. It is a secluded and established base, far from the prying eyes of the media

I agree. But I don't not think that Area 51 fits that bill. Secure and established? Yes. But not far from the eyes of the media and public. As mentioned earlier, dozens, maybe even hundreds of TV specials have been done on the base. Countless books, and websites, such as ATS, focus on the base. With all the people watching and looking for clues about the base, it is hardly secluded. Why would the government do a test with an ET craft over Area 51 when there's a good chance someone from the public is watching?

The most secure, secluded base in the world, and the perfect spot to hide ET's, is the one that we don't even know about, or have a clue exists. And I have no doubt that if they had ET technology, they could find ways to keep the public from ever knowing about the base.

In my last post before my final, I’d like to present a piece of evidence that I feel strongly backs up my side of the debate.

Area 51 veterans speak: No space aliens

Veterans are talking, and–surprise! surprise!–they aren’t telling any tales of space aliens or UFOs:

The veterans’ stories provide a glimpse of real-life government covert operations, with their everyday routines and moments of excitement.

The stories of the veterans reveal lots of secret stuff going on at Area 51 back in the 1960s, but, alas, there isn’t a single story of extraterrestrials or alien space ships. There are, however, lots of stories about secrecy and test-flying A12s and Blackbirds

Now I would tend to believe this person. Surely if he had stuff to spill about ET and ET craft he would and become famous for that? Instead he talks about a base filled with secrecy, but no ET agenda.

Which brings me to other point. As we discussed earlier, Area 51 is a large base and one could gather that there are many people working at the base. Why have there not been more credible people who have come out and claimed that ET craft were being worked on at the base? Bob Lazar is not a credible source in the minds of many. Even a “camo dude” has not gone public saying they have seen a ET craft flying overhead. ET craft and technology would be an enormous secret, and one that would be hard to keep due to it's subject matter.

The main example is the Microprocessor.

I believe the microprocessor has more humble roots.

Ted Hoff - First Microprocessor

Co-inventor Stanley Mazor wrote in his paper The History of the Microcomputer , "Intel’s founder, Robert Noyce, chartered Ted Hoff’s Applications Research Department in 1969 to find new applications for silicon technology... Ted Hoff thought it would be neat to use MOS LSI technology to produce a computer. Because of the ever growing density of large scale integrated (LSI) circuits a “computer on a chip” was inevitable.”

Simply invented by a man with knowledge in computers without the help of ET's. I also found no connection between Mr. Hoff and Area 51.

Area 51 is still just a military base, with no relation to ET, or ET craft.

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 01:09 PM
When examining the eyewitness testimonies of Area 51 veterans, we have to realize the the secrecy involved often had people working in separate locations on the base, often on the same project, but with no communication between groups. It could be that reports from people that have worked at the base have not had the proper security clearance, so therefore, in their eyes, there were no ETs. As the majority of the work performed was "classified", this would most likely appear to be the case.

It also seems likely that that the MSM would also support the ideology of a lack of ETs or ET crafts at Area 51, and also attack the credibility of individuals who do tell their story. Such practice is referred to as "disinformation". There have been several stories told by individuals, and I'll touch briefly on a few:

Dan Burisch is a microbiologist who received his Ph.D. from the State University of New York, Stonybrook, in 1989.

In 1994, he was assigned to work in an underground laboratory at S-4/Area 51, five floors under the Papoose Mountain installation at Nellis AFB, Nevada.

Dr. Burisch says the being at S-4/Area 51 was called “J-Rod.”

According to Mr. Burisch, he drew tissue samples from an ETE.

Bill Uhouse

“We had meetings, and I ended up in a meeting with an alien. I called him J-ROD – of course, that’s what they called him."

“This ET craft was a controlled craft that the aliens wanted to present to our government – the U.S.A."

and David Adair

He demonstrated his rocket in the summer of 1971 and was taken to Area 51 in order to take a look at a similar engine as the one he developed for his own rocket.

According to David's conclusions this engine must have been of extraterrestrial origin.

There will always be the aspect of a person's credibility when relating to eyewitness events, but I often find it hard to believe that people would simply fabricate elaborate stories and accordingly face severe scrutiny for telling them, unless they are motivated by facts, and actually did see the things they describe.

The Edwards Agreement is another aspect of the contact we have had with alien races:

The Edwards Agreement was the culmination of a chain of events that started on 5 July 1947 when debris of a crashed alien spacecraft was found in Roswell, New Mexico, and several alien bodies, of Greys, were found.

(Interestingly enough, in the so-called Brookings Report, discovered by Professor Stanley McDaniel, the Brookings Institute, in 1961 warned NASA that it would be better to withhold any information about alien civilisations from the public because "Anthropological files contain many examples of societies sure of their place in the universe, which have disintegrated when they had to associate with previously unfamiliar societies espousing different ideas and different life ways.").

Such an agreement would never be publicly disclosed, but it does give a clear indication that the government would have the interests of "National Security" at it's disposal. There are many indicators that ETs have had contact, and that contact has been shrouded in the mysteries of the most secure military base in the world.

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 01:28 PM
Closing Statement:

I'd like to thank Druid for the great debate. I appreciate the fact that our debate went smoothly and timely. I hope the same for all future debates.

The military installation known as Area 51 is not actually related to extra-terrestrials or extra-terrestrial craft.

All the evidence points to this statement being true.

In closing I would just like to summarize points I've brought up throughout the debate.

Throughout the years Area 51 has been the home for many secret aircraft. But these are all terrestrial craft. Many have mistaken these for ET craft and since then the rumors have spread beyond control.

Most everything that conspiracists use as basis for their claims can be explained. The security, the mistaken sightings, the secrecy. Jumping to the conclusion of an ET agenda when there is a far more likely scenario is wrong.

And again, why use Area 51 for ET and ET craft? With all the technology and secrecy available, I find it hard to believe that if there were a military base used for an alien agenda, we would know anything about it at all. Let alone be able to view it and read about it.

And to top it all off, we have accounts from workers who say there were no aliens at Area 51. And their stories aren't filled with doubts and questions like people who claim otherwise.

The solid evidence for ET's at Area 51 just isn't there, was never there, and I believe it will never be there, because, "The military installation known as Area 51 is not actually related to extra-terrestrials or extra-terrestrial craft."

Thank you. And I wish Druid good luck in the judging.


posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 08:09 PM
In my closing statement I'd like to thank the host of this debate, adjensen, for his diligence in catching my broken link. My browser's cache had all the links in it, so therefore when I did check the links for validity, I received valid URLs in return. In my opinion, he has set the example for what a "host" of a debate thread should be, going out of his way by checking links and validating information presented. I'd also like to thank my opponent, enjoies05, for a very timely and honest assessment of his position, and for participating in this very interesting debate.

I started this debate by defining certain land acquisitions by the various agencies involved with Area 51 since it's inception since 1955. I followed with possible technological advancements that were achieved during this time, and it's possible that an "Edwards Agreement" would have allowed such technological sharing between civilizations. I concluded with eyewitness testimonies that define actual encounters with either ET related technology, or actual ET entities themselves. I hinted at the reasons why disclosure has not occurred.

There was simply not enough space within the confines of this debate to properly address all the plausible relations to Area 51 and alien involvement, but I would disagree with my opponent that Area 51 is SOLELY involved with experimental aircraft. The F-117 Stealth Aircraft has been the last officially de-classified project developed at Area 51, and I, for one must wonder, if they can produce such a stealth aircraft from backwards engineered alien technology, that the aliens visiting this planet also have such stealth technology, indeed, it would appear that they have perfected it.

I would also wonder what new advancements they are developing at Area 51, the newest generations of "stealth aircraft", or even perhaps crafts which cross the time/dimensional barrier. Only time may answer those questions, but I would deem that future advances in aviation developed at Area 51 would be indistinguishable from the actual alien crafts themselves. It's a full circle, and with ample funding, the events continuing at Area 51 may achieve advancements beyond the realm of military applications, ones in which may benefit all of humankind.

I simply cannot reduce myself to believe that Area 51 is only for the development of "experimental aircraft", and I also believe that there is more research going on than just that is what is related to aviation. There have been several additions, improvements, and currently a staff estimated to be between 1800-2200 people, on-site. Due to the base's "protected status" from lawsuits, due to issues of "national security", we can assume the base is involved in all aspects of research and development, and over the years, the focus has grown to include all aspects of technological advancements.

As stated earlier, a microbiologist was there. What does that have to do with aviation? There are simply too many inconsistencies laden with disinformation to simply admit that Area 51 is ONLY a "secret" aircraft development base. We either have to accept the fact that people make up stories, or that there is substance to their stories. I choose the latter.

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 09:37 PM
I would like to thank both participants, enjoies05 and Druid42, for an entertaining and informative exchange.

As I have noted previously, I am a skeptic on the issue of extraterrestrial visitors to Earth, so enjoies05's side is my "default". And I think that he did a pretty good job of pointing out that it is reasonable to believe that the United States military would have a need for secrecy on some base, somewhere, to conduct tests of equipment that is secret and needs to stay that way.

In addition, he scores points for citing testimony by people who worked at the base, and who denied any ET presence, and I think it is human nature to blab about things that make one the holder of secret knowledge, so this is an important point. Finally, he makes the excellent point that Area 51 would be a poor place to hide or test UFOs, as conspiracy theorists are drawn to the place like Catholics to Rome, so there would likely always be someone watching.

On the other side, Druid42 counters with an historic and testimonial position, as well, but with a focus, initially, on the ever-growing geographical area claimed as "protected space" as a buffer from the outside world. This served to demonstrate two facts -- that the needs of the base are growing over time, and that the sheer scale of the place serves to explain why the sentinels of the UFO community don't turn in strong eyewitness reports of much beyond paranoia and creepy security behaviour.

Druid42 also provides quotes from people who claim to be eyewitnesses to ET activity, wisely avoids Bob Lazar, and then poses his most striking point, that the alien activity at Area 51 need not be limited to aircraft -- there could be any manner of testing and development going on, and it is easier to hide an electronics lab than it is to hide flying saucers. He reminded me that the subject of the debate is not "UFOs at Area 51?" but, rather, "Aliens at Area 51?"

With two well presented and strong cases, I decided that my decision came down to the observation that witnesses are relative to their circumstances. I have known people who have high level security clearance, and they are obsessive about NOT blabbing. So I think it quite probable that there could be witnesses who would testify that there is no alien presence at Area 51 because, even though they work there, they don't work in the places that the aliens might be, and if those that do work there keep their mouths shut, no one would be the wiser. The size of the place reinforces that potential, as well.

How does that explain Druid42's witnesses, since they clearly are not keeping their mouths shut? I suspect that, once out of the culture of security, it likely becomes easier for some people to justify telling the world (or at least those who will listen) their story, which also caters to that human nature of wanting to be the "Bringer of Gnosis".

With this in mind, I will come down on the side of Druid42, at least regards the conclusion of this debate. But it was not an easy decision, both sides made excellent cases.

posted on Aug, 12 2012 @ 09:39 PM
An extremely tough one to judge it came down to just a few minor points.

1) you both did an awesome amount of research, however Druid had the edge in that category, and while I do not for one second believe that there are aliens running around at Area 51 or Roswell Druid proved that there could have been.

2) overall tone. again Druid edged out ahead on this one, in fact much better than his last debate, so that point goes to him as well.

So for my .02 worth, it's got to be Druid this time..

Now on a personal note, I would have liked to see addressed the aspect of this that neither touched upon, that is of Aliens supposedly in contact with the government (and one supposedly sent here for his protection and claiming to BE the Roswell Alien) posting here on ATS. Maybe there an be a further debate exploring that...

posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 04:59 AM
A great debate.

Thank you both for providing some excellent reading.

Also a thanks to adjensen for hosting this. A great job.

For me the issue comes down to assuption. We're all woking under the assumption that either aliens do exist at Area 51, or they don't.

Both opponents provided great points to validate their assumptions. The difficulty is this is that enjoies05 had the onus to provide examples to validate a negative, while Druid42 had to validate his assuption with current evidence however scarce.

In the end, though, I thought Druid42 provided more substantial weight to validate the current assumption. I would deem him the winner.

Great job to all!



posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 09:17 AM
And, with that, the debate has reached its conclusion, with Druid42 taking honours.

Thank you, once again, to our esteemed debaters and judges.

Thread open for discussion!

posted on Aug, 13 2012 @ 09:29 AM
One thing that I left out of my judging was personal experience -- I chuckled a bit when the microprocessor was put out as an example of possible alien technology. My father was an electrical engineer at Texas Instruments and Motorola in the 50s and 60s and participated in the development of semiconductors, which brought us some interesting technology into the house. He had one of the first digital watches, when they cost over $1,000 and were the glowing red LED kinds, and one of the first electronic calculators, which was about the size and weight of a brick, lol.

I'd ask him about any potential ET connection, but unfortunately, he's one of the "tight lipped" security types I mentioned. He worked for a different defense contractor in the 70s, spent a lot of time traveling to foreign countries, and he still refuses to talk about it, even though he's been retired for thirty years and whatever he was doing is probably irrelevant. I do remember, when my wife was applying for security clearance to work at DOD, mentioning to him that I was a little nervous about being investigated, and he said, effectively, "You? Yeah, I wouldn't worry about that. They know who you are."

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