Theosophy and Christianity

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Murgatroid

 

Only one problem with this little statement. 'Satan' and Lucifer, are not the same person, unlike most of you have been lead to believe.

If that is the case then why does Theosophy teach otherwise:

even "the devils are subject" to the Logos -- who is WISDOM, but who, as the opponent of ignorance, is Satan or Lucifer at the same time.

Blavatsky, H.P. (2011-06-20). The Secret Doctrine: All Volumes (Illustrated) (Kindle Locations 17612-17614). . Kindle Edition.

Satan, or Lucifer, represents the active, or, as M. Jules Baissac calls it, the 'Centrifugal Energy of the Universe' in a cosmic sense.

Blavatsky, H.P. (2011-06-20). The Secret Doctrine: All Volumes (Illustrated) (Kindle Locations 17869-17873). . Kindle Edition.

Now what is the real character of all those who fought along with them? They are (1) the Usanas, or the "host" of the planet Venus, become now in Roman Catholicism -- Lucifer, the genius of the "morning star" (see Isaiah xiv., 12), the tsaba, or army of "Satan."

Blavatsky, H.P. (2011-06-20). The Secret Doctrine: All Volumes (Illustrated) (Kindle Locations 22411-22413). . Kindle Edition.

What, indeed, can a student of Occultism, a beginner, gather from the following highly poetical sentences of Eliphas Levi, as apocalyptic as the writings of any of the Alchemists?

"Lucifer, the Astral Light . . . . is an intermediate force existing in all creation, it serves to create and to destroy, and the Fall of Adam was an erotic intoxication which has rendered his generation a slave to this fatal light . . . every sexual passion that overpowers our senses is a whirlwind of that light which seeks to drag us towards the abyss of death, Folly. Hallucinations, visions, ecstasies are all forms of a very dangerous excitation due to this interior phosphorus (?). Thus light, finally, is of the nature of fire, the intelligent use of which warms and vivifies, and the excess of which, on the contrary, dissolves and annihilates. Thus man is called upon to assume a sovereign empire over that (astral) light and conquer thereby his immortality, and is threatened at the same time with being intoxicated, absorbed, and eternally destroyed by it. This light, therefore, inasmuch as it is devouring, revengeful, and fatal, would thus really be hell-fire, the serpent of the legend; the tormented errors of which it is full, the tears and the gnashing of teeth of the abortive beings it devours, the phantom of life that escapes them, and seems to mock and insult their agony, all this would be the devil or Satan indeed." (Histoire de la Magie, p. 197).

Blavatsky, H.P. (2011-06-20). The Secret Doctrine: All Volumes (Illustrated) (Kindle Locations 22613-22624). . Kindle Edition.

Thus to the profane, the Astral Light may be God and Devil at once -- Demon est Deus inversus: that is to say, through every point of Infinite Space thrill the magnetic and electrical currents of animate Nature, the life-giving and death-giving waves, for death on earth becomes life on another plane. Lucifer is divine and terrestrial light, the "Holy Ghost" and "Satan," at one and the same time,

Blavatsky, H.P. (2011-06-20). The Secret Doctrine: All Volumes (Illustrated) (Kindle Locations 22643-22646). . Kindle Edition.

And now it stands proven that Satan, or the Red Fiery Dragon, the "Lord of Phosphorus" (brimstone was a theological improvement), and Lucifer, or "Light-Bearer," is in us: it is our Mind -- our tempter and Redeemer, our intelligent liberator and Saviour from pure animalism.

Blavatsky, H.P. (2011-06-20). The Secret Doctrine: All Volumes (Illustrated) (Kindle Locations 22654-22657). . Kindle Edition.

It seems that there are many references in this source book of them being one and the same to the Theosophist though. How do you respond?

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


It's not so much two different people, but two ways of looking at the same thing. Satan is when you look at sin as a bad thing, Lucifer is when you look at sin as a learning experience. Hence, "Light Bringer": the consequences of "sin" show you exactly WHY you should behave a certain way. The shadow that defines the light.

It's the difference between crying over spilled milk and using lemons to make lemonade. That's my theosophy.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by Murgatroid

 

If you actually read all of Isis Unveiled, and The Secret Doctrine, it shows that Madam Blavatsky was not a demon/satan worshipper, but believer in Lucifer, the light(truth) bearer.

And now it stands proven that Satan, or the Red Fiery Dragon, the "Lord of Phosphorus" (brimstone was a theological improvement), and Lucifer, or "Light-Bearer," is in us: it is our Mind -- our tempter and Redeemer, our intelligent liberator and Saviour from pure animalism.

Blavatsky, H.P. (2011-06-20). The Secret Doctrine: All Volumes (Illustrated) (Kindle Locations 22654-22657). . Kindle Edition.

All is absorbed in the spirit of the most Powerful. It is emphatically a kingdom of Peace and loyal Submission as that of the 'Arch-Rebel' is one of War and Revolution. . . . . It (the former) is in fact what Theosophy calls Nirvana. But then Theosophy teaches that separation from the Primal Source having once occurred, Re-union can only be achieved by Will -- Effort -- which is distinctly Satanic in the sense of this essay." It is "Satanic" from the standpoint of orthodox Romanism, for it is owing to the prototype of that which became in time the Christian Devil -- to the Radiant Archangels, Dhyans-Chohans, who refused to create, because they wanted Man to become his own creator and an immortal god -- that men can reach Nirvana and the haven of heavenly divine Peace.

Blavatsky, H.P. (2011-06-20). The Secret Doctrine: All Volumes (Illustrated) (Kindle Locations 17883-17890). . Kindle Edition.

to view Satan, the Serpent of Genesis, as the real creator and benefactor, the Father of Spiritual mankind. For it is he who was the "Harbinger of Light," bright radiant Lucifer, who opened the eyes of the automaton created by Jehovah, as alleged; and he who was the first to whisper: "in the day ye eat thereof ye shall be as Elohim, knowing good and evil" -- can only be regarded in the light of a Saviour. An "adversary" to Jehovah the "personating spirit," he still remains in esoteric truth the ever-loving "Messenger" (the angel), the Seraphim and Cherubim who both knew well, and loved still more, and who conferred on us spiritual, instead of physical immortality

Blavatsky, H.P. (2011-06-20). The Secret Doctrine: All Volumes (Illustrated) (Kindle Locations 17839-17844). . Kindle Edition.

Their prince is called in the Kabala Samael, the Angel of Death, who is also the seducing serpent Satan; but that Satan is also Lucifer, the bright angel of Light, the Light and Life-bringer, the "Soul" alienated from the Holy Ones, the other angels, and for a period, anticipating the time when they would have descended on Earth to incarnate in their turn.

Blavatsky, H.P. (2011-06-20). The Secret Doctrine: All Volumes (Illustrated) (Kindle Locations 15368-15371). . Kindle Edition.

They will see then that the word "darkness" does not apply to man's spiritual eyesight, but indeed to "Darkness," the absolute, that comprehendeth not (cannot cognize) transient light, however transcendent to human eyes. Demon est Deus inversus. The devil is now called Darkness by the Church, whereas, in the Bible he is called the "Son of God" (see Job), the bright star of the early morning, Lucifer (see Isaiah). There is a whole philosophy of dogmatic craft in the reason why the first Archangel, who sprang from the depths of Chaos, was called Lux (Lucifer), the "Luminous Son of the Morning," or manvantaric Dawn. He was transformed by the Church into Lucifer or Satan, because he is higher and older than Jehovah, and had to be sacrificed to the new dogma. (See Book II.)

Blavatsky, H.P. (2011-06-20). The Secret Doctrine: All Volumes (Illustrated) (Kindle Locations 2012-2018). . Kindle Edition.

Is this not The Secret Doctrine???

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


Theosophy:

Theosophy (from Greek θεοσοφία theosophia, from θεός theos, divine + σοφία sophia, wisdom; literally "divine wisdom"), refers to systems of esoteric philosophy concerning, or investigation seeking direct knowledge of, presumed mysteries of being and nature, particularly concerning the nature of divinity. Theosophy is considered a part of the broader field of esotericism, referring to hidden knowledge or wisdom that offers the individual enlightenment and salvation. The word esoteric dates back to the 2nd century CE.[1] The theosophist seeks to understand the mysteries of the universe and the bonds that unite the universe, humanity and the divine. The goal of theosophy is to explore the origin of divinity and humanity, and the end of world, life and humanity. From investigation of those topics theosophists try to discover a coherent description of the purpose and origin of the universe.

link to source

Helena Petrovna Blavatsky

Helena Petrovna Blavatsky (Russian: Еле́на Петро́вна Блава́тская, Ukrainian: Олена Петрівна Блаватська), (born as Helena Gan (Russian: Елена Петровна Ган, Ukrainian: Олена Петрівна Ган); 12 August [O.S. 31 July] 1831 – 8 May 1891) was a scholar of ancient wisdom literature who along with H.S Olcott and Anagarika Dharmapala was instrumental in the Western transmission and revival of Theravada Buddhism. In 1875 Blavatsky and Olcott established a research and publishing institute called the Theosophical Society. Blavatsky defined Theosophy as "the archaic Wisdom-Religion, the esoteric doctrine once known in every ancient country having claims to civilization."[1] Blavatsky's extensive research into the many different spiritual traditions of the world led to the publication of what is now considered her magnus opus, The Secret Doctrine, which collates and organizes the essence of these teachings into a comprehensive synthesis. Blavatsky saw herself as a missionary of this ancient knowledge and one of the main purposes of the Theosophical Society was “to form a nucleus of the Universal Brotherhood of Humanity, without distinction of race, creed, sex, caste or color”.[2] Blavatsky's other works include Isis Unveiled, The Key to Theosophy, and The Voice of the Silence.

link to source

She was a theosophist, just as Pike was a mason. She is not Theosophy just as Pike is not Masonry.

Understand that there is a difference.

But be careful, the things you are looking at here did not come from the Bible and you might get some Lucifer juice on you.

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


That is no more absolute a view of theosophy than Baptist is an absolute view of Christianity, and we all know how many denominations there are...

Theosophy is a chosen view, as according to how we feel about it (just as with any religion or philosophy) and it is not absolute in any regard, because it cannot be PROVEN.

It all comes down to a matter of perspective and how we feel about it. Because our own emotional stance on a matter will trump the truth any given day...we live in an age where the truth can be rewritten according to our desires, and an absolute truth no longer has the same meaning it did hundreds of years ago.

Disclaimer: this applies only to religion and philosophy, which is based on insubstantial concepts. Anything that is not concrete is up to speculation, and speculation relies just as much on emotion as anything else. And as with all emotional basis...the more we don't like it, the less we accept it in the pure, unadulterated form.

We're a species of invention. If we don't like it, we change it. The proof is all around you. I myself usually try to avoid changing anything for my own comfort or satisfaction...if it makes sense, even if I don't like it, I let it be. The thing is, I usually don't have a problem with it. Anyway, enough of my rambling...

reply to post by JesuitGarlic


I will answer this and your other statement once I get home. On mobile and way too complicated to try and respond now.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Interestingly, Dan Brown makes a point of stating that every geographical detail mentioned in that novel is perfectly accurate. A bit of a bold statement if he knew that it was incorrect.

He is in the business of selling books, not making accurate statements regarding geographical details contained within. Everything I posted is easily located with a quick search.

We are searching for answers. Except the devout Christians it seems. The devout born agains seem to be directly opposed to the searching for any answers.

How ironic, searching for ANSWERS from a pathological liar AKA "the father of ALL lies".

So Theosophists believe that Satan is God, our benefactor and the Father of Spiritual mankind...

And yet they believe that CHRISTIANS are opposed to searching for answers?

CLEARLY someone has a few pieces missing from their puzzle and is taking delusion to whole new level...

"Clearly, Helena Blavatsky was a devout Satan worshipper, and an enemy of the cross of Jesus Christ. She is also one of the pioneers of today's occult New Age Movement...

"It is Satan who is the God of our planet and the only God."

LINK

The Theosophical Society believes Lucifer is God ... Satan, the Serpent of Genesis as the real creator and benefactor, the Father of Spiritual mankind."

Theosophy And The 'New Age'

reply to post by Murgatroid


sweet, so "searching for answers"="Satan". nice to know.

tell me, does anything not = Satan?

edit to add:
(once more for the slow people)


Theosophy:

Theosophy (from Greek θεοσοφία theosophia, from θεός theos, divine + σοφία sophia, wisdom; literally "divine wisdom"), refers to systems of esoteric philosophy concerning, or investigation seeking direct knowledge of, presumed mysteries of being and nature, particularly concerning the nature of divinity. Theosophy is considered a part of the broader field of esotericism, referring to hidden knowledge or wisdom that offers the individual enlightenment and salvation. The word esoteric dates back to the 2nd century CE.[1] The theosophist seeks to understand the mysteries of the universe and the bonds that unite the universe, humanity and the divine. The goal of theosophy is to explore the origin of divinity and humanity, and the end of world, life and humanity. From investigation of those topics theosophists try to discover a coherent description of the purpose and origin of the universe.

link to source

reply to post by network dude


Some people don't understand te esoteric at all and often label it new age. Which isn't really new at all to be truthful. Anyways, people should read the Theosophical Society's page. Madam Blavatsky wrote in the Secret Doctrine that the atom could be split or divided. It was not until 9 years later that such a thing was even proven. She determined this by following the famous words of Thoth 'As below, so above.' or how the microcosm reflects the macrocosm.


Up until that time, the general consensus was that the atom was indivisible. Good posts though. I starred and flagged the thread for being a theosophist. Which others don't know it goes back to the Library of Alexandria.

Those were many words expressing a single thought of error on my part. Where is the counterargument? My mind works on metaphor extremely well. Please provide a better understanding. If I have failed to reduce the symbols to the root, then keep reducing for me. I am always open to seeing deeper toward the root. Even better, reflect the light another direction to reveal they perspective you see.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Good post. Very informative. I have one little problem with it, however...

One, you are taking it way too literally. There is an underlying meaning to this story, and I suspect that you have not even guessed at all of its symbology and what it's really trying to say. Because literalism only requires what you already have at hand, and metaphoric understanding requires quite a bit of background info (conspicuously absent) you rely on the literal meaning because that's the easiest road. And that's what it's always been about.

You can see it in the world today. We choose what's easiest, most convenient. The human condition, the human nature, is to do what's familiar. So if we happen to find a halfway coherent explanation, we'll rationalize to fill in the remaining gaps and make IT suit OUR feelings and beliefs, rather than adjusting our perspective to suit the truth. And therein lies the conflict. Instead of adjusting ourselves to the truth, we adjust the truth to ourselves so we feel better about it. When we find the truth, before we ever consider the validity of the truth, we consider how we feel about it. Before we have ever decided if we believe it or not, we've already pondered to ourselves, "Do we WANT to accept this truth?"

And if we don't, we rationalize, and we either change it to suit us, or find a reason why we shouldn't accept it. And this works with every kind of inabsolute truth we've ever conceived in the history of mankind. We will think about how WE feel about it before we ever think about whether it's actually true. Because the truth doesn't matter to the majority. What matters is the world inside our head, the only place where anything is real. We don't like a truth we aren't comfortable with. And that's where our "selective comprehension" gift comes into play. We CHOOSE what we believe, we CHOOSE how we want to believe it, and we CHOOSE how we show it or when. If it was really the truth, there'd be no choice. Know it, or lie to yourself. Those are the only options. And yet we find ourself choosing...which implies a wide range of "truth", which implies varying degrees of adjustment for the purpose of comfort and ease of "passage", or ease of acceptance.

And that's how our own nature has crippled us regarding religion. And that's why I don't like religion, because it tempts us to do that, and we give in far too often for it to be truly effective. Spirituality is a more one-on-one thing, and it's much harder for others to influence you when it's a personal journey, because you are forced to come to your own answers. And when peer pressure or peer rationality doesn't encourage you to stick with the simplest definition and "don't think too much about it", you come to more accurate answers on your own.

Because the group mentality is "don't question things too much." That's how it's always been. And so, in my opinion, religion, or group-search, is a lot less effective than spirituality, or personal-search. Unless the group makes a point of managing it the personal-search way. Hence, theosophy instead of Christianity...obviously, the one is a lot less restrictive than the other, and the human condition, in groups, is always restrictive. At least with Christians, it is. And if you aren't restrictive, you're a very RELAXED Christian...which isn't how it used to be, and is more due to modern culture than anything else. But there's still traditionalists...fear of new ideas, you know.

Does this make sense to anyone? I tried to explain it as thoroughly as possible.

Again, another post stating that Theosophy provides the answer to what has been posted, yet hides in the shadow of nothing said. My posts provide a great deal of context, quotes, links and metaphor. Please expand your conclusion with some reflecting points.

Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by network dude

 

Some people don't understand te esoteric at all and often label it new age. Which isn't really new at all to be truthful. Anyways, people should read the Theosophical Society's page. Madam Blavatsky wrote in the Secret Doctrine that the atom could be split or divided. It was not until 9 years later that such a thing was even proven. She determined this by following the famous words of Thoth 'As below, so above.' or how the microcosm reflects the macrocosm.


Up until that time, the general consensus was that the atom was indivisible. Good posts though. I starred and flagged the thread for being a theosophist. Which others don't know it goes back to the Library of Alexandria.

edit on 13-8-2012 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)

Spirits are patterns of thought. For instance, if someone says, "you are in a good spirit today", what are they saying? "He has a spirit of courage." What does this mean? It's a state of consciousness. Humans have sentient consciousness. Spirits (no body) depend on us to bring a spirit to life in consciousness. Satan is a consciousness and spirit of taking rather than giving. God only has a will to give and receive. Evil takes. Good gives. On the other side of any creation, the creator expects a return. God's return is one of reception from what he gives. He is not receiving. We are. "His Word will not return void," as the Bible say. An Angel is a servant of God. The word Angel means messenger. We might call a packet of information on the internet an Angel. It is delivering a command from one to the other. Commands that are delivered against God's will are then seen as similar to a virus. Spirits have a mechanism of influence.

Satan is not merely a symbol of individualism. The Angel of Darkness is real. Satanism is building a theology around Satan (Dark Angel). This is Theistic Satanism. Freemasons may not call it this, but let's see if the shoe fits.

"The history of Theistic Satanism, and assessments of its existence and prevalence in history, is obscured by it having been grounds for execution at some times in the past, and due to people having been accused of it who did not consider themselves to worship Satan, such as in the witch trials in Early Modern Europe. Most of Theistic Satanism exists in relatively new models and ideologies, and many claiming to not be involved with Christianity at all."

If there is one thing I have learned from the Masons on ATS, they do not have a high regard for Jesus as the Son of God. This shows up in many posts. They will gladly tell you there are Masons who are Christian, but the Masons I have come across do not profess Christ and Him crucified. The delusion mentioned in the Bible is that mankind believes a lie. What is that lie?

The lie is simple to see.

God could never produce a creation based on taking and lawlessness. His will can only be to give and receive. The error is a will to take, as reflected in a balanced state between the Angel of Darkness and the Angel of Light. The choice was set in place in a balanced state to test mankind and give them the will to choose between a Godly will to give and receive against the will to take. Character, love and virtue are all based on the positive choice between the two.

What is the lie?

The Angel of Darkness appears as an Angel of Light by mirroring the light and then switching the polarity from giving to taking. It is a complete mirror image. Not only this, but the mirror image is then switched again after the choice is made. What do I mean by this? A person who embraces darkness thinks they are embracing light. That's one mirror. The second is the accusation against the person who actually embraces the light. The judgment is switched, calling good evil.

A person in the light sees a mirror as well. A person in the true light realizes the will to give and receive, yet the image of the world is flipped to a will to take. Truth is known, yet the person in the light cannot live truth that is out of context. They see many people embracing the will to take, yet the world seems to function well on this will. The truth of the matter is that we are dying. We are sowing into a future that cannot be sustained. Taking always leads to debt. The debt eventually catches up.

The answer is the cut the error at the root. Mankind must choose a will to give and receive. Positive is the only thing that can be created in such a system. The world is healed when we see this light. If the root is cut, the spirit of darkness withers.

The only law that can be broken is love. The will to take breaks the only law that can possibly exist. The law is to treat others as you expect to be treated. Since truth is written on the heart, the law is to love and keep the law by giving. Giving requires something to be released to another. Suffering in this direction is suffering that leads to joy and reward. Taking reward first, as a thief, only produces suffering that hurts. Death results.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Murgatroid

 

sweet, so "searching for answers"="Satan". nice to know.

tell me, does anything not = Satan?

edit to add:
(once more for the slow people)


Theosophy:

Theosophy (from Greek θεοσοφία theosophia, from θεός theos, divine + σοφία sophia, wisdom; literally "divine wisdom"), refers to systems of esoteric philosophy concerning, or investigation seeking direct knowledge of, presumed mysteries of being and nature, particularly concerning the nature of divinity. Theosophy is considered a part of the broader field of esotericism, referring to hidden knowledge or wisdom that offers the individual enlightenment and salvation. The word esoteric dates back to the 2nd century CE.[1] The theosophist seeks to understand the mysteries of the universe and the bonds that unite the universe, humanity and the divine. The goal of theosophy is to explore the origin of divinity and humanity, and the end of world, life and humanity. From investigation of those topics theosophists try to discover a coherent description of the purpose and origin of the universe.

link to source

edit on 13-8-2012 by network dude because: added information

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

do you even realize how much power you are giving to this "Lucifer"? You are obsessed with him.
Treat him like a troll, ignore him, and he has no power. Damn, if you put the same energy you spend worrying about Lucifer into helping others, you might actually have a good use for your time.

Satanism is making a theology around taking and calling it light. This is referred to as Theistic Satanism. Satan can only operate by taking God's image and twisting it in a mirror. He is powerless apart from this ability. Unfortunately, it works really well. God's image is the will to give and receive. The mirror to this is the will to take. Religion has never been different around the entire world. Religion is the will to give. Theistic Satanism is taking the knowledge of religion and twisting it into the lie of the thief. The thief takes, then twists, and calls it a faith. Anyone is welcome, as long as they believe in a God. They must believe. Truth can only be used, but used in a twisted image. Once the initiate is in the door, the religion they know is then presented in a mirror back to them as the reverse image of God. The hallmark of a thief is taking and then saying nothing was taken. Jesus said, know them by their fruit. The fruit that is produced is war, debt, poverty and theft from one to benefit the other.

You statement above reflects this tactic against me. I have never said anything that indicates that I worship the error in the image. I have only outlined the context of the error against the context of truth.

It boils down to the will to give and receive against the will to take.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Satan is not merely a symbol of individualism. The Angel of Darkness is real.

Well, I guess he needs people like you to believe in him and give him animus.

If there is one thing I have learned from the Masons on ATS, they do not have a high regard for Jesus as the Son of God.

Nah, I just think they do not have a high regard for loud-mouth Christians that constantly proselytise about their faith, quote voluminous amounts of irrelevant scripture and have zero tolerance for anyone eles's beliefs.

That about sums it up.

Actually there are some Christians seeking the truth and encouraging others to seek truth.

Check out these films. I am the author fo the first one. Theosophy is discussed in these films, especially the second one.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Satan is not merely a symbol of individualism. The Angel of Darkness is real.

Well, I guess he needs people like you to believe in him and give him animus.

If there is one thing I have learned from the Masons on ATS, they do not have a high regard for Jesus as the Son of God.

Nah, I just think they do not have a high regard for loud-mouth Christians that constantly proselytise about their faith, quote voluminous amounts of irrelevant scripture and have zero tolerance for anyone eles's beliefs.

That about sums it up.

Are you on the wrong forum? Dogma is the basis for belief and values. Intolerance of ignorance is the objective of this forum. Denying ignorance requires a basis for belief that is then applied in conversation on an open forum of debate. Intolerance on the street is another issue. Intolerances of ignorance on a message board is the subject and nature of debate on a forum that says, "DENY IGNORANCE." You can do the same if your end of the debate was anything other than incredulity against truth.

You are confusing the audience with the suggestion of prejudice and a zero tolerance for ignorance that causes wars. Religion does not cause wars. People cause wars by taking what does not belong to them. Nations also fight wars based on the defense of their nation against the thieves. In this country, we are overrun with thieves claiming to be members of Secret Societies. They have infiltrated government and are running the world into an irreversible demise. All the while, they are claiming to follow the Bible, Compass and Square as their main symbols. The triangle is the Father, Son and Mother. It's the thing we all protect with truth--the family unit. War creates orphans. The Societies then claim "Religion" is to blame. The problem is, religion only has one definition.

James 1

27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

The will to give and receive is what religion is all about. Debate is all about denying ignorance and finding the high ground with truth. If you are here in error, there are places on the internet for good old boys. My only concern is showing the error against the truth. Our families depend on the true men of this world stepping up to the plate and standing for the honor of truth and love. Debate me, but speak to the subject instead of stepping on the object.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Are you on the wrong forum?

No, I think you are. This is not biblebelievers.org or godsaidmansaid.com.

Dogma is the basis for belief and values...You can do the same if your end of the debate was anything other than incredulity against truth.

But sadly your 'truth' is a strict adherence to Christianity which was predated and anteceded by a host of other religions. You obviously have a very hard time coming to grips that not everyone is going to have your cultish view of religion and a prerequisite belief in Satan.

People cause wars by taking what does not belong to them.

Yeah, like other taking people's religious views personally and finding it necessary to try and testify to them about their perceived 'error'.



Maybe you can do something original and quote some scripture for everyone.

James 1...

(irrelevant scripture passages removed)

Thank you for being so predictable.

If you are here in error, there are places on the internet for good old boys.

Guess what? There are places on the internet for religious wackos and fundementalists, and this aint one of them. You are sorely (and quite thankfully) in the minority here.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

But sadly your 'truth' is a strict adherence to Christianity which was predated and anteceded by a host of other religions. You obviously have a very hard time coming to grips that not everyone is going to have your cultish view of religion and a prerequisite belief in Satan.

All things flow from their source and resemble the things they are mixed with as they flow down the stream. The original spring holds the pure water. No person can claim to be above their source based on time, space or the manipulation of matter for learning.

Augustin Said it best.

Augustine, from City of God

"And yet the validity of logical sequences is not a thing devised by men, but is observed and noted by them that they may be able to learn and teach it; for it exists eternally in the reason of things, and has its origin with God. For as the man who narrates the order of events does not himself create that order; and as he who describes the situations of places, or the natures of animals, or roots, or minerals, does not describe arrangements of man; and as he who points out the stars and their movements does not point out anything that he himself or any other man has ordained;—in the same way, he who says, “When the consequent is false, the antecedent must also be false,” says what is most true; but he does not himself make it so, he only points out that it is so."

Natural law by proverb and scripture is truth, evident in our axioms that match.

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by network dude

 

The devout born agains seem to be directly opposed to the searching for any answers.

Why would you search for what you already have? If you are a born again believer, you already have all the answers.

Its actually a very beautiful and lovely thing to be found born again and saved from any choatic gnostic realm!