America On Verge Of Communist Takeover, Says Former Castro Revolutionary

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by LucidDreamer85

We imported Nazi's after WW2...

Not much of a difference.

Wow... This man WAS an officer of Che Guevara, but he left when he saw what was truly happening...

You want to claim that Cubans who escaped socialism/communism are the same as NAZIS?... Are you of your damn mind?...

I've heard a number of people from the former Soviet Union as well as people who got out of Cuba speak on the topic of Communism and what it REALLY is, not what so many romanticize. It's ugly, brutal and cruel with absolutely no upsides I can see. East Germany looked just as dismal and miserable when the Wall fell as I'd imagined and been told it would, growing up.

The fact anyone would lessen the horror of actually coming under that system which even Russians finally said said enough to (Until enough time..they seem to be getting it back now) is scary. Socialism is fine in nations like those in Northern Europe but even officials there have noted the like minded and small populations it governs and how it WOULD NOT likely work for a BIG nation.

Thanks again for the thread. It's timely, even if I think so many will only realize that in hindsight.

Originally posted by daskakik

Funny, in the post above this one you say that Nazis are Hitler's socialism and in this post you say they are not the same.

Since when is being a Cuban equal to being a NAZI?...

Cubans are not NAZIS... Except those who worked with the socialist/communist system murdering other Cubans who would not accept socialism/communism...

This man fled when he saw this happening...

I had an uncle who was a captain under castro's command fighting in "La Sierra Maestra", when he saw what castro was truly bringing to Cuba he turned his weapon, alongside other officers and soldiers, against castro and Che Guevara... Because of this he spent 15 years in a Cuban prison where he recieved daily beatings... Because of the beatings he lost a testicle, several vertebrae were dislodged in his spine, and had countless broken and fractured bones... He died in exile in the U.S. a few years back...

I guess according to you he was also a NAZI for TRULY fighting for the people when he saw the truth about socialism/communism?...

Originally posted by daskakik
Hey if the US does become communist at least you'll be able to visit your family back on the island. Got to look on the bright side of things.

edit on 3-8-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

I have already visited my family in Cuba in the year 2000 and spent about 3 months living with them...

What they need now is money (which they use mainly to buy food in the black market), medicine and clothes which we send them instead of wasting the money on going there.

There is NOTHING positive about socialism/communism...

oh bs.....we have a group of people that have chosen not to conform....not news....it's good to see a healthy check against the machine.....but be serious....no one is going to completely give up their right to choose....so in there is the death of communism...it will never take over....it hurts tooo many. And too many are smart enough to see the pain....we are not dumbed down enough yet...it might be coming...but us Virginians are not retards...we can smell a skunk.....

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Since when is being a Cuban equal to being a NAZI?...

According to you, since they are both socialists.

I had an uncle who was a captain under castro's command fighting in "La Sierra Maestra", when he saw what castro was truly bringing to Cuba he turned his weapon, alongside other officers and soldiers, against castro and Che Guevara... Because of this he spent 15 years in a Cuban prison where he recieved daily beatings... Because of the beatings he lost a testicle, several vertebrae were dislodged in his spine, and had countless broken and fractured bones... He died in exile in the U.S. a few years back...

So, same type of stories exist coming the other way.

I guess according to you he was also a NAZI for TRULY fighting for the people when he saw the truth about socialism/communism?...

I was just using your terms, which I don't really agree with anyway.

I have already visited my family in Cuba in the year 2000 and spent about 3 months living with them...

There is NOTHING positive about socialism/communism...

And yet you live. You didn't starve to death, get sent to a gulag or stand before a firing squad. Guess it wasn't all that bad. Had it been as bad as you make it out to be you would have not spent 3 whole months there.

What they need now is money (which they use mainly to buy food in the black market), medicine and clothes which we send them instead of wasting the money on going there.

Not much different than many capitalist 3rd world countries with democratically elected representative government under a constitutional republic. And many of those don't have an embargo placed on them. Go figure.

reply to post by beezzer

What could it be, that would make the people, the Tea Party, the freedom lobbyists support martial law?

What made the People accept "income" taxation in 1913? Were employees being taxed in 1913? Did employers insist a From W4 be signed on condition of employment in 1913? Were Social Security Numbers being used as "taxpayer identification numbers in 1913?

Social Security didn't even exist in 1913, but the newly passed "income" tax did. That was the first incremental step in the direction this thread is suggesting. The "false flag" neo speaks of all ready happened with the artificially created depression by the Federal Reserve, also a product of 1913. The "Great Depression" kicked a whole bunch of American's asses, and the socialized programs of the "New Deal" were easier to swallow than they were in 1913.

Teddy Roosevelt fought for universal health care while President. What has made the Americans, or a large portion of them embrace a notion that was considered way to Progressive in the first decade of the 1900's?

Would Americans accepted a license and registration scheme for horse and buggy's? What made American's accept such a scheme for automobiles? Were state governments circumventing Constitutional restraints and justifying it by pointing to a persons signature on a license and registration contract in the early 1900's?

Step by steady step, largely in the name of expedience, We the People, historically disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, a long train of abuses before finally one day waking up and looking around and declaring: "WTF?! How did this happen?"

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


reply to post by neo96


I conceed the point. You both have made convincing arguments for something like this occuring.

*tips hat*

Originally posted by sheepslayer247

I though the topic was Communism taking over America....not what has happened in other countries in the past. That is another topic for another thread, and I would be glad to discuss that topic.

YOU claimed communism is not an issue at all, which shows how much you truly know about it.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
Quite presumptuous and rude...huh? I'm quite the history nerd and have done a lot of research on various topics relating to government and politics. Am I an expert? No....but I am not flying blind either.

Again, YOU claimed communism is not an issue, which sorry to say says the contrary to what you claim now that you have read books on the topic. Unless those books were written by leftwingers who of course paint socialism/communism as the best thing in the world despite none of them knowing a thing about it...

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
No...Fascism is the ideology those men used in an attempt to create their vison of perfect government and people. Socialism has nothing to do with it.

Oh yes, Benito Mussolini was a socialist all his life, and he had a vision of what form of socialism should exist in Italy which lead to fascism.

It is too long but here is an excerpt from wikipedia, a very leftwing source, about the fascist manifesto of Mussolini...

The Manifesto of the Italian Fasci of Combat (Italian: Il manifesto dei fasci italiani di combattimento)
...
The manifesto thus combined elements of contemporary democratic and progressive thought (franchise reform, labour reform, limited nationalisation, taxes on wealth and war profits) with corporatist emphasis on class collaboration (the idea of social classes existing side by side and collaborating for the sake of national interests; the opposite of the Marxist notion of class struggle).

en.wikipedia.org...

What got him thrown from the socialist party in Italy was the fact that he agreed with Karl Marx that socialism came from violent revolutions. He disagreed with Marx on class struggle and thought that class collaboration was better but still this doesn't make his views any less socialist than they were.

There are MANY branches to socialism and they all have different views on what form of socialism/communism is better. Just because they have different views/ideas doesn't make them any less socialist than Mussolini was...

The same thing happened with Hitler, and if you are one of those people who claim that because Hitler was against other forms of socialism makes him less of a socialist then what have you to say about the differences between Lenin, Stalin and Trosky?... Stalin even ordered the death of Trosky and Trosky wrote about this...

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
Socialism is nothing more than a group of people collaborating or sharing resources in order to provide a need or service for all people involved.

Police is socialism.
Fire dept is socialism.
Streets are socialism

Very wrong... Capitalism also provides needs and services, and btw police officers, firemen, and streets built in the U.S. were built under capitalism, not under socialism...

Socialism/communism FORCES people to work for the government, claiming to represent the workers, for free and/or for almost no money at all...

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
and on and on and on........the word socialism is also another word, like communism, that is being used to scare the masses into knee-jerk responses that benefit those disseminating propaganda for their own gain.

Again, according to you the 125- 160 million murdered under socialism/communism is nothing but an invention as well...

Please, go back to your couch and keep reading what leftwingers claim about socialism meanwhile the truth is far different from their CLAIMS...

Originally posted by neo96
What is funny is people think that communisn is just so great that never seen any of them packing up all their belongings building a makeshift raft and floating right on down to the grass is greener Cuba,

Or North Korea

edit on 3-8-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

they're either posters from another country or shills or people that are fascinated but have never experienced the conditions in those nations Plenty of such hypocrits that would love to send the others to the greener pastures while they duke it out on dry land

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by neo96
What is funny is people think that communisn is just so great that never seen any of them packing up all their belongings building a makeshift raft and floating right on down to the grass is greener Cuba,
Or North Korea

edit on 3-8-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

Well because they want it in their own homeland.
Why go somewhere else when they can make it happen at home.

And you think the funding for their organization in NYC is not being funded by external entities outside of US to ensure the chaos occurs in the US?

Originally posted by hp1229
And you think the funding for their organization in NYC is not being funded by external entities outside of US to ensure the chaos occurs in the US?

What I think doesn't change the fact that some in the US may want a socialist form of government without having to leave home.

The French aided the colonials during the revolutionary war and no one, except those that wanted to remain loyal to the crown, seem to think of that as a bad thing. Why would things be different now? People will choose sides and make the other side out to be the bad guy.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

YOU claimed communism is not an issue at all, which shows how much you truly know about it.

I said that communism is not an issue. Let me clarify to say that it is not an issue as it pertains to America as asserted in the OP. Isn't that the topic being discussed? We are not talking about communism in other nations in the past.

Again, YOU claimed communism is not an issue, which sorry to say says the contrary to what you claim now that you have read books on the topic.

I said nothing about reading books on the topic.

Unless those books were written by leftwingers who of course paint socialism/communism as the best thing in the world despite none of them knowing a thing about it...

Leftwinger...socialism is good, blah blah blah. Propaganda, plain and simple. I am well beyond falling for crap like that.

Oh yes, Benito Mussolini was a socialist all his life, and he had a vision of what form of socialism should exist in Italy which lead to fascism.

You are taking the worst examples of socialism mixed with fascism or communism and attempting to discredit socialism altogether. That's like using Bernie Madeoff as an example to discredit capitalism.

On it's own, socialism is not inherently evil. Nor is capitalism. It takes the intent of bad people to use the ideology in a negative way.

Capitalism also provides needs and services, and btw police officers, firemen, and streets built in the U.S. were built under capitalism, not under socialism...

Police and other services are provided by taking wealth of the people and creating a service for the common good. By definition...that's socialism. Please explain to me the mechanics of how exactly capitalism created these services without taking wealth from citizens.

Socialism/communism FORCES people to work for the government, claiming to represent the workers, for free and/or for almost no money at all...

Communism may do just as you described but socialism does not. Socialism is nothing more than the idea that all goods and resources should be shared by all for the common good. It does not become oppressive as you describe until communist or fascism are injected into the mix.

Again, according to you the 125- 160 million murdered under socialism/communism is nothing but an invention as well...

I never said anything of the sort and this is an outright lie! Please quote in your response speciflly where I said that.

Please, go back to your couch and keep reading what leftwingers claim about socialism meanwhile the truth is far different from their CLAIMS...

Again... presumptuous and rude. I could care less what leftwingers or rightwingers say about socialism or communism. I rely on my own ability to read and discern fact from outright propaganda.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Socialism is fine in nations like those in Northern Europe but even officials there have noted the like minded and small populations it governs and how it WOULD NOT likely work for a BIG nation.

That is, in my opinion, the most honest assessment of Socialism in this thread. Socialism works great in smaller nations but not in larger ones... but neither does Capitalism. In truth, no economic government system works on a macrocosm scale. This is why both capitalists and socialists should support decentralization.

Each state we have in our fine nation would work well with either philosophy because it would be localized for their industries. The centralized government, as a whole, should do nothing for us but act as a disaster safety net and to provide defense in the event of invasion.

We should have socialist states! We should have capitalist states! But we should have an indifferent body in DC.

On the odds of this actually happening:

There's a better chance that the Galactic Federation of Light shows up and ordains Blossom Goodchild and Steven Greer rulers of the earth.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Taking away our rights is as simple as feeding wild animals. The more you feed the wild animals the more used to you they get, the more docile and less succeptible to realize the danger about to befall them, they get desensitized to being in the vicinity of a predator and then one day they end up in the cookpot.

The same principal applies to establishing a dictatorship, you heap on the people more and more laws slowly over a given period of time and then arrange a crisis where someone needs to take absolute power to deal with the threat, but when the threat is over, you find it was never about being the hero, it was about someone establishing an empire. This is exactly what Julius Caesar did.

Originally posted by daskakik

According to you, since they are both socialists.

Just because the Cuban people are living under an oppressive socialist/marxist system doesn't make them socialist...

Originally posted by daskakik
I was just using your terms, which I don't really agree with anyway.

You were not... You were TWISTING what I wrote, which is completely different...

You need to learn some reading comprehension because you obviously have no idea what it means.

Originally posted by daskakik
And yet you live. You didn't starve to death, get sent to a gulag or stand before a firing squad. Guess it wasn't all that bad. Had it been as bad as you make it out to be you would have not spent 3 whole months there.

I live because my parents escaped with me when I was young, and you really should shut the hell up about what you don't know.

YES, people do starve in Cuba, and since the revolution took over there was a rationing of food and other resources EVEN BEFORE the embargo from the U.S...

You have no idea what I experienced in Cuba, and what my family still living there is still experiencing there...

At 7 years old the Cuban government claims that children don't need millk anymore, not that there is lots of it, and families with children starting at 7 years old are not allowed to buy the daily litre of milk anymore...

Even in the 70s, and before that, families had to choose each month what to buy, from a bar of soap to a toothpaste PER FAMILY... My mother always chose the bar of soap, and we used our index fingers as toothbrush with the soap...

Every Cuban family was given a "libreta" that says what they can BUY each month, if it is available, and if they had the money to BUY it...

Per person if it was available you could buy 4 lbs of rice a month, 1 chicken per 5 people per month, 12 ozs of black beans per month, 4 ozs of coffee per month, 4ozs of meat per month, 8 eggs per person per month, 4 lbs of sugar per month (when available). Each family could buy 1 litre of milk per day per child until 7 years of age.

When it was available, which was not often, you could buy 1/2 lb of potatoes per family no matter if the family consisted of 10 people or 20.

All of this was about $30 - $40 Cuban pesos PER PERSON, and that was WHEN and IF it was available.

Cubans earn from about $80 - $120 Cuban pesos a month depending on their line of work. So if you are a single parent working in a factory you made about $80 Cuban pesos, if you were a nurse/doctor you made/make about $110 - $120 Cuban pesos.

You have to pay about $15-$20 Cuban pesos for electricity which was available only sporadically but you still pay the $15-$20 Cuban pesos. You have to boil water, and warm water for showers.

Men and women could buy once in a year 1 set of pants and 1 set of long sleeve shirt for work. A shirt was like $15 Cuban pesos, and the pants about $14 or so.

The money that most Cubans make isn't enough for all the necessities.

Many times Cubans had to fight in the lines of the "bodeguas"/small markets because there wasn't/isn't enough food for everyone. And yes, there are, and were Cubans who would go hungry.

Sometimes all you had to eat, if you had it, was a stale piece of bread with some cooking oil, or with some sugar for a day. Some people had nothing to eat for a couple of weeks or so.

There was/is no pizza, you can't and could not buy soft drinks or orange juice, or any other type of juice unless you have family outside of Cuba visiting who would buy these things in the market for tourists...

On birthdays a family could buy 2 boxes of the old coke in a glass bottle, with 24 small bottles, no matter if the family was of 10, 20, or 30 people, not counting friends.

Cooking oil was only available in the black market for about $50 Cuban pesos.

Since the 1970s a black market sprung up in Cuba, for the Cubans who could pay, for food and other necessities, and when people are caught who are part of the black market they get sent to prison...

The black market occurs amongst some farmers, and "bodegueros" (people who work in the market) who can hide some extra food, and sell it to families they know to be able to buy other things also in the black market...

Once every six months women could buy either 3 bras, or 3 panties, and men could buy either 3 underwear, or 3 t-shirts.

There were never any tampoons, or pads for women, and women have had to use old rags and boil them in water...

There has never been ACs, or central heating, and yes there are times when it is very cold in Cuba.

Originally posted by daskakik
Not much different than many capitalist 3rd world countries with democratically elected representative government under a constitutional republic. And many of those don't have an embargo placed on them. Go figure.

Sorry but that is BS... I see you using the damn internet and having reliable electricity... and even the one member in here who claims that he is poor has reliable electricity, internet and a laptop...

MOST Cubans don't make enough money to buy for all the necessities and this has happened ever since the revolution...

BTW, in case you didn't know Cuba has been making business with Canada, and even European countries... the U.S.A. is not the only country that exists in the world, and these businesses haven't helped the Cuban people...

BTW, i didn't spend 3 months there as a tourist, or because I liked it, but to help my family. Since I am a U.S. citizen I could go to the tourist stores and buy food and other necessities that my family couldn't buy on their own...

Just like tourists hospitals have the best things that medicine has to offer, tourist markets have the best things that can be bought, but the regular Cubans are not allowed to go to either the tourist hospitals, nor the tourist markets...

I had to watch how one of my aunts cried her soul out when she saw all the things that tourists could buy in the markets for tourists, including games that Cuban children can't have...

Again, you should shut up about things you really have no idea about.

Originally posted by yadda333
On the odds of this actually happening:

There's a better chance that the Galactic Federation of Light shows up and ordains Blossom Goodchild and Steven Greer rulers of the earth.

Really?... You mean a better chance than for OBama to nationalize GMC?... Or Obama claiming that businesses started by entrepeneurs doesn't belong to them, and that someone else made that happen??... hummm...

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Just because the Cuban people are living under an oppressive socialist/marxist system doesn't make them socialist...

But the guy you mentioned was not just living under it but actually help put it in place. Having a change of heart afterwards does not change that fact.

You were not... You were TWISTING what I wrote, which is completely different...

You need to learn some reading comprehension because you obviously have no idea what it means.

I could say the same back at you.

I live because my parents escaped with me when I was young, and you really should shut the hell up about what you don't know.

I was talking about your trip back. You were not put to death during that trip.

As for the rest of the sob story you laid out, it happens all over the world in capitalist countries as well.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Yes--I've read a thread with the same recurring theme for going on four years now. It isn't going to happen. At one time in my ATS life, I also considered it plausible that Bush would suspend the election and stay president. Oh yeah, I also thought TPTB had already selected Rudy Giuliani to win in 2008.

Originally posted by daskakik

But the guy you mentioned was not just living under it but actually help put it in place. Having a change of heart afterwards does not change that fact.

That person bought the same things about socialism/communism as you seem to have bought, but he woke up to reality... He didn't participate in the executions done by the castro brothers and Che Guevara...

Originally posted by daskakik
I could say the same back at you.

Care to show what I twisted?...

Originally posted by daskakik
I was talking about your trip back. You were not put to death during that trip.

As for the rest of the sob story you laid out, it happens all over the world in capitalist countries as well.

Oh please... You obviously have no idea that Cubans die in the ocean, or eaten by sharks trying to get out of there. Not to mention that what happens in other countries like Haiti, is not because of capitalism...

Again, you are only showing ignorance and nothing more.