Climate deniers act like actual skeptics, do own research, get "surprising" results.

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by Eurisko2012

 

And what is driving these natural cycles?


I will end up asking this 10 more times and a skeptic won't answer.

edit on 30-7-2012 by nixie_nox because: (no reason given)

Must be vaporized unicorn piss which simultaneously cancels and mimics the infrared emissivity of CO2, methane and CFC's.

reply to post by TSZodiac


The scandal that was debunked because skeptics broke into a private companies email stash and selectively edited a few to make it sound like the scientists were not backing up information?

The first scandal on skeptics part, is what you are referring too?

reply to post by mbkennel


What do you expect from a group of people who can only come up with the Sun's rays, the IPCC, Al Gore, and now the scientists must be paid off.

Originally posted by TSZodiac
reply to post by mbkennel

 

Really? That MAY be true - but we already KNOW FOR SURE that the "scientists" who are behind the "science" were on the take and skewed the numbers to help support the POLITICALLY MOTIVATED
scam that is AGCC (formerly AGW) - witness please: www.huffingtonpost.com... ...maybe you just "conveniently" FORGOT about that little scandal....so very sorry for adding some "Inconvenient Truth" to the discussion !

Bull#.

This line of inquiry has been going on for many decades, long before there was any political recognition and all the science was the same.

reply to post by TSZodiac

But the other scientists are on the side of big corporations who profit by the neglect of nature. There are two sides to everything. The middle ground is the happy ground and that means we have to start reducing our negative impact on the earth or we will destroy the Ecosystem. I could get really elaborate and bore everyone to death but it will not change the minds of those who are skeptical about it.

I'll try to summarize it. Bugs attract birds. Birds eat bugs and poop out nitrogen. Nitrogen makes trees less susceptible to fire which keeps forest fires smaller. less fires means more trees to cool the surrounding environment. More trees pull some of the energy out of the air as they sway. The more trees the more birds and bugs in the woods instead of our fields and the easier the job for us. We kill the bugs and the birds don't poop as much. We could also just preventively start producing and spraying nitrogen into the woods to lessen the severity of fires to take up the missing birds and bugs. but it would have to be done often with small quantities so it doesn't get in the rivers. Ever try to get bird crap off something? It sticks and slowly releases.

So we need planes to throw bird poop all over the place to solve this problem.

reply to post by nixie_nox


First off - I am what YOU will classify as a "skeptic", however I don't like that term - because "skeptic" implies that this whole scam hasn't already been outed ! The fact that the UN and worl governments are going ahead with legislation based on the scam does not mean its not still a scam.....now that's settled, here's your answer:

WE DON'T KNOW - your Climatologists don't know and neither do the other disciplines involved, we simply don't have enough data to know what causes our planet to operate the way it does. Why? Human beings simply haven't been around long enough - there isn't enough data. The "revelation" mentioned by the OP suggests that Climatologists has DEFINITELY determined that you and I are the cause of Global Climate change....based on 60 YEARS of climate data.....on a planet that's A BILLION YEARS OLD ! As I posted earlier - that's like a behavioural scientist telling you that he can determine all the behaviour traits of a 60 year human because he studies that person for .0036 seconds ! Laughable.....Climatologists only have reliable climate data for about 200 years....and most of that is "Farmers Almanac" data....Geologists/Archaeologists have FAR more climate data than do Climatologists (Climatologists btw are just glorified weathermen - when they can ACCURATELY tell me when its going to rain, I'll start listening to the other things they have to say !) - here's what GEOLOGISTS have to say about levels of CO2 in the atmosphere: they're at HALF the level predicted by the climatologists behind this scam: carbon-budget.geologist-1011.net...
Gee - since we already KNOW that the scientists behind the scam have lied and skewed the data to support their bogus conclusions, I wonder HOW that happened???

Want the truth - Al Gore has set up companies to take advantage of the newly created Carbon Trade Market...he will make BILLIONS....the Climatologists and the institutes that they work for

Originally posted by winnar
The so called science says two things: 1) if we keep up the co2 emissions it will become so hot that it will send us into an ice age and,

Oh you findally believe that CO2 emissions are mechanistically driver of increased temperature?

2) when we arent even adding significant co2 it gets really hot then sends the planet into an ice age. How does this even add up to anthropogenic global warming?

Actually during paleoclimate there is some evidence that there is natural release of greenhouse gases from the ecosystem (this does NOT include the fossilized sources of coal) which cause additional warming.

Scientists believe that CO2 causes additional warming because when the measure its effect there is more electromagnetic radiation hitting the ground. This is an experimental fact not an opinion.

It doesn't matter where the CO2 and gases come from for this effect.

Originally posted by TSZodiac

WE DON'T KNOW - your Climatologists don't know and neither do the other disciplines involved, we simply don't have enough data to know what causes our planet to operate the way it does. Why? Human beings simply haven't been around long enough - there isn't enough data. T

There aren't enough data to understand how the planet was for sure a billion years ago. There are enough data to understand how the planet is today with enough detail to know what will happen shortly.

reply to post by TSZodiac


Fixing this problem doesn't cost a cent. We have to start restraining ourselves and put an end to the way things are. If we fix what we got and don't buy new every time something gets scratched this problem will go away. If we think before we jump and consolidate trips the problem will lessen. If we vacation near where we live it will help and by all means buy local foods. No tax or control by governments is needed. If demand for products falls than the prices of the stuff we buy will fall. The cost of living will be reduced. Big business will not be able to afford five corporate jets or golf club memberships and things will start to heal.

Does it hurt to be cautious a little when it involves the future lives of mankind? If no evidence is possible the most reasonable choice is to the caution side.

reply to post by rickymouse


...Aaaand if my Granmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.....so? I have NEVER said that big corporations weren't primarily profit driven or that humans pollute the Earth, I simply have stated that Al Gore has convinced millions of people that its their fault that the Earth's climate is changing....what YOU'RE not realizing is that this AGCC thing IS the new frontier of profits for big corporations and the "Elite". NONE of the Carbon Tax Legislation (please read a few Australian newspapers !) STOPS ANY corporation from polluting ! It simply builds a huge new government body to TAX them for doing so ! Whom do you think will end up PAYING those taxes? The Corporations?? NOT ! YOU and I will be paying those taxes in higher costs so that the corporations can maintain their profit margins.....who benefits in the end? The Earth, no - because the pollution is still there, you and I (the common folks) ? No - our standard of living goes down because we have to pay more for the things we buy (btw - its ILLEGAL in Australia to tell consumers that a business' higher prices are due to the Carbon Tax - see previous posts)...so who benefits? The People setting up the system ! Al Gore, the Climatologists who helped support the effort and the institutions that they work for.....plain and simple. You have been lied to !

this has been done to death but here is the bullet point - pollution = bad

reply to post by rickymouse


Again - common sense, my grandmother used to send TONS of money to a certain "televangelist" - because it made her feel better and felt it brought her closer to God......sad but true.....George Carlin said it best, Religion is kind of like an insert for your shoe....if it makes you walk a little straighter, makes you feel a little better- more power to you, just don't try and nail YOUR inserts onto MY feet !

This is just another religion for people - this one being based on conjecture, incomplete and doctored data, and GUILT. If YOU want to follow that religion, fine....worship at the temple of Al Gore, just don't FORCE me to convert to your religion !

Originally posted by TSZodiac
reply to post by rickymouse

 

...Aaaand if my Granmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon.....so? I have NEVER said that big corporations weren't primarily profit driven or that humans pollute the Earth, I simply have stated that Al Gore has convinced millions of people that its their fault that the Earth's climate is changing....what YOU'RE not realizing is that this AGCC thing IS the new frontier of profits for big corporations and the "Elite". NONE of the Carbon Tax Legislation (please read a few Australian newspapers !) STOPS ANY corporation from polluting ! It simply builds a huge new government body to TAX them for doing so ! Whom do you think will end up PAYING those taxes? The Corporations?? NOT ! YOU and I will be paying those taxes in higher costs so that the corporations can maintain their profit margins.....who benefits in the end? The Earth, no - because the pollution is still there, you and I (the common folks) ? No - our standard of living goes down because we have to pay more for the things we buy (btw - its ILLEGAL in Australia to tell consumers that a business' higher prices are due to the Carbon Tax - see previous posts)...so who benefits? The People setting up the system ! Al Gore, the Climatologists who helped support the effort and the institutions that they work for.....plain and simple. You have been lied to !

Global warming was never about the climate.

It was always about gaining control of the general population through - fear & deception-.

The Al Gore - Hockey Stick - graph was just a very clever - zoom - on the larger graph.

reply to post by mbkennel


Really - please tell me with 100% accuracy if and WHEN it will rain tomorrow ! I won't be holding my breath for your answer.....because the SAME PEOPLE who are in charge of telling you that, are behind the Climate data !
BTW - the "chance" of rain tomorrow in my town is 30%....that's how accurate our science is.....but they can tell you FOR CERTAIN that you and I are the cause of climate change...BOLLOCKS ! Scam from the word go.....

reply to post by Eurisko2012


NOW you're waking up ! Proud of you !

Second line (but still proud of you !)

reply to post by mbkennel

Oy vey. The entire article will be published in a scientific journal.

Sometimes actual facts and analysis matter to actual scientists.

Papers are published in science journals. Articles are published in newspapers and online blogs/rags/news or quasi news sites.

You should know the different.

What was cited in the OP is a biased piece about a person who was involved in a paper.

That's why I thought we were discussing the person (the article) and not the paper.

reply to post by TSZodiac


I realize that there are people who want to profit off these things, the evidence is in how many times it has happened in the past. To deny we are disregarding nature is not right. To fight the tax and do this ourselves is good. We just have to stop being too good of consumers, something that has been conditioned into us for a long time. I am definitely against the taxing of people. Taxing will work though if it is implemented because prices will rise so high that we can't buy anything and that will shuffle the money to the rich without needing workers. I have no problem with having vehicles or heating our homes, I have a problem with people thinking they deserve more than they need. We have gotten spoiled. What was a treat when I was a kid is everyday now. Take it from a toolaholic, I have so many tools that I finally don't desire to buy anymore, there is no dream anymore. Now I have started studying everything and don't want to use the tools anymore.

reply to post by mbkennel


Really? Wikipedia, Dude ? I just went on and changed the entry at your link to read "AGCC is a scam".....it won't be up long, but really - even schoolchildren aren't allowed to use wikidedia as a source.....c'mon

Originally posted by TSZodiac
reply to post by mbkennel

 

Really? Wikipedia, Dude ? I just went on and changed the entry at your link to read "AGCC is a scam".....it won't be up long, but really - even schoolchildren aren't allowed to use wikidedia as a source.....c'mon

Which means your point is moot.

It will, at any time, have some errors, but be constantly fine-tunning for the most accurate data available.

It's the exact same thing with a paper encyclopedia.

reply to post by rickymouse


I appreciate your view of the world - and I really wish that we lived in a world where everything was simple....but its not....its pretty clear to me (based on my research) that this was most likely thought up well in advance of the Presidential election that Mr. Gore lost....I'm sure this threw a wrench into their timeline and its been a battle for them ever since....prompting the whole "Inconvenient Truth" thing...I have NO DOUBT that if President Obama is re-elected, the US will have Climate Legislation similar to the recent legislation passed in Australia...instituting the UN Carbon Tax. This tax FIXES NOTHING.....it does NOT stop ANY pollution - the SAME amount of CO2 will be going into the atmosphere....you and I will just have to pay more for it to happen.....