Colorado Massacre a Result of Attacking Christianity?

So I came across this article in the Huffington Post about Republican House Rep Louie Gohmert's thoughts about the shooting in Colorado. He said:

"You know what really gets me, as a Christian, is to see the ongoing attacks on Judeo-Christian beliefs, and then some senseless crazy act of terror like this takes place," Gohmert said. "Some of us happen to believe that when our founders talked about guarding our virtue and freedom, that that was important," he said. "Whether it's John Adams saying our Constitution was made only for moral and religious people ... Ben Franklin, only a virtuous people are capable of freedom, as nations become corrupt and vicious they have more need of masters ... We have been at war with the very pillars, the very foundation of this country.""People say ... where was God in all of this?" Gohmert said. "We've threatened high school graduation participations, if they use God's name, they're going to be jailed ... I mean that kind of stuff. Where was God? What have we done with God? We don't want him around. I kind of like his protective hand being present."

So this guy basically believes that the shooting happened because there is an "attack" on Judeo-Christian beliefs. I kind of feel like he saying without saying that since Christians are not allowed to dictate societal standards anymore that their god is no longer protecting the general public from harm. Which is ridiculous because we all know that Christians have committed horrible atrocities in the name of god, and god did nothing to protect the people being murdered. God himself even commits genocide in the bible so, eh, not exactly the best deity to count on. Also, America is not a Christian nation. Anywho he goes on to say:

"It does make me wonder, with all those people in the theater, was there nobody that was carrying a gun that could have stopped this guy more quickly?" he asked.

So god is the solution but we still need guns? Which one is it? I mean if god is the solution why is he still promoting guns. Goes back to what Obama said, "Americans cling to their religion and their guns." My personal opinion is that Gohmert is just crazy. A killer will kill people whether people around them believe in god or not, they may actually use god as their reason to do so. An invisible being will not prevent violence from happening within a society. Neither will guns. These things are not the solution, they have been tried and were not successful. What do you think?

You can read the article here

reply to post by acmpnsfal


Star and flag. I like your prospective. Check this out, www.abovetopsecret.com...

This guy needs to be exposed for the lime light seeking, give me some more attention, media whore he is!

Really! What constitutional rights would he take from whom, and what criteria would he use?

reply to post by acmpnsfal


Dear acmpnsfal,

Really, you wish to exploit this terrible tragedy in the same way as a christian that you criticize? Start off by being hypocritical and heartless and blame him for just being heartless and fools. Do you know that the shooter was a christian or do you only know that at one time he attended church? That is how foolish you are. How many kids are forced to go to church and don't believe? You are as bigoted and silly as the person you are railing against. Would it be okay if we waited until some facts came out before jumping before the conclusions that fit our favorite bigotry?

reply to post by acmpnsfal


And to think people voted for this guy.

Christians are limiting the rights of gays and trying to limit the rights of Muslims, they are also attempting to dictate if we can have contraception or not. How are they being attacked? Are they being attacked because people don't agree with there ideology? If we were indeed a Christian nation our laws from the beginning would reflect that, Christians would never give freedom of religion, and it would be death for adultery.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by acmpnsfal

 

Dear acmpnsfal,

Really, you wish to exploit this terrible tragedy in the same way as a christian that you criticize? Start off by being hypocritical and heartless and blame him for just being heartless and fools. Do you know that the shooter was a christian or do you only know that at one time he attended church? That is how foolish you are. How many kids are forced to go to church and don't believe? You are as bigoted and silly as the person you are railing against. Would it be okay if we waited until some facts came out before jumping before the conclusions that fit our favorite bigotry?

What are you going on about? Are you more offended that a Christian lawmaker came forward to exploit this terrible tragedy to promote his bigoted agenda of taking away our constitutional rights based on his idea of morality, or that there's threads on ATS about it?

These kinds of people need to be called out and exposed. It's too bad that he (Louie Gohmert) showed his true colors because of such a tragedy, but hey, that's how he rolls.

EDIT: That star you have is a mistake given to you by me. I wish there was an unstar button!

reply to post by windword

Thanks for the S&F. I didnt know it was already posted. But yea this guy is clearly seeking attention and has an agenda against non Christians.

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by acmpnsfal

 

Dear acmpnsfal,

Really, you wish to exploit this terrible tragedy in the same way as a christian that you criticize? Start off by being hypocritical and heartless and blame him for just being heartless and fools. Do you know that the shooter was a christian or do you only know that at one time he attended church? That is how foolish you are. How many kids are forced to go to church and don't believe? You are as bigoted and silly as the person you are railing against. Would it be okay if we waited until some facts came out before jumping before the conclusions that fit our favorite bigotry?

What exactly are you talking about? Im not using this tragedy to exploit anything. Im simply responding to what the Rep said. I dont think religion or guns is the solution. I never even referred to the shooter so I have no clue where you are getting this from..

My thoughts on this are strange, seeing that I am more of an occultic type. Over the last 60 years or so, you have seen an increasing hostility towards Christianity. Prayer in school, atheists wanting god taken out of everything, including Christmas etc. Most of our elders never encountered these type of tragedies. You never heard of random, wacked out, lone gunman blasting crowds of people just for the fun of it back in the good 'ol days, when most Americans were religious. Americans have always had guns, but these type of incidents are pretty much a today's problem. You hear of all kinds of new strange evils today that those 60 years ago never would have imagined.

I remember growing up in the 80's, even as recent as then.. I do not remember much of the crazy things you hear now days. It seems everyday you hear of some evil madness.. Some mom kills her kid, mass shootings, drugged out cannibals etc. Youth today have maybe 20% of the respect they had when I was a teenager. You would have never seen a youth talking to an elder like the kids on that bus, 30 years ago.

Most of the Christians I know personally and I have grown up with MANY, are kind, very loving people.. Including my grand parents. They grew up in an era where everyone got dressed up and went to church on Sunday, came home and had major family get togethers with plenty of food. Society was very moral, family strong, and respectful.. Today it is just the opposite. In my opinion, the lack of faith in SOMETHING, has brought on a very crazy, highly immoral society. Like I said, I am not a Christian, but with such a lack of belief in something.. Society has fallen into madness. There seems to be no moral compass with the rise of Atheism.

reply to post by acmpnsfal


they should outlaw every object that can be used to murder , we will then live in a murder-less society, right?

Dear acmpnsfal,

What is wrong with you people? How do you know that their families and friends are not also on these sites? What is wrong with you, let the facts come out and stop speculating that it is whatever you hate in this world that is responsible. Wait for the facts to come out and stop being such heartless, bigoted fools. I don't care if one calls themselves a christian or an atheist, your all jerks if you behave in such a manner. If you think I am picking on you because you are not a christian, you are even more foolish, my response to a christian who used this for pushing an agenda would not be as nice.

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by acmpnsfal

 

Dear acmpnsfal,

Really, you wish to exploit this terrible tragedy in the same way as a christian that you criticize? Start off by being hypocritical and heartless and blame him for just being heartless and fools. Do you know that the shooter was a christian or do you only know that at one time he attended church? That is how foolish you are. How many kids are forced to go to church and don't believe? You are as bigoted and silly as the person you are railing against. Would it be okay if we waited until some facts came out before jumping before the conclusions that fit our favorite bigotry?

What are you going on about? Are you more offended that a Christian lawmaker came forward to exploit this terrible tragedy to promote his bigoted agenda of taking away our constitutional rights based on his idea of morality, or that there's threads on ATS about it?

These kinds of people need to be called out and exposed. It's too bad that he (Louie Gohmert) showed his true colors because of such a tragedy, but hey, that's how he rolls.

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
So I came across this article in the Huffington Post about Republican House Rep Louie Gohmert's thoughts about the shooting in Colorado. He said:

"You know what really gets me, as a Christian, is to see the ongoing attacks on Judeo-Christian beliefs, and then some senseless crazy act of terror like this takes place," Gohmert said. "Some of us happen to believe that when our founders talked about guarding our virtue and freedom, that that was important," he said. "Whether it's John Adams saying our Constitution was made only for moral and religious people ... Ben Franklin, only a virtuous people are capable of freedom, as nations become corrupt and vicious they have more need of masters ... We have been at war with the very pillars, the very foundation of this country.""People say ... where was God in all of this?" Gohmert said. "We've threatened high school graduation participations, if they use God's name, they're going to be jailed ... I mean that kind of stuff. Where was God? What have we done with God? We don't want him around. I kind of like his protective hand being present."

So this guy basically believes that the shooting happened because there is an "attack" on Judeo-Christian beliefs. I kind of feel like he saying without saying that since Christians are not allowed to dictate societal standards anymore that their god is no longer protecting the general public from harm. Which is ridiculous because we all know that Christians have committed horrible atrocities in the name of god, and god did nothing to protect the people being murdered. God himself even commits genocide in the bible so, eh, not exactly the best deity to count on. Also, America is not a Christian nation. Anywho he goes on to say:

"It does make me wonder, with all those people in the theater, was there nobody that was carrying a gun that could have stopped this guy more quickly?" he asked.

So god is the solution but we still need guns? Which one is it? I mean if god is the solution why is he still promoting guns. Goes back to what Obama said, "Americans cling to their religion and their guns." My personal opinion is that Gohmert is just crazy. A killer will kill people whether people around them believe in god or not, they may actually use god as their reason to do so. An invisible being will not prevent violence from happening within a society. Neither will guns. These things are not the solution, they have been tried and were not successful. What do you think?

You can read the article here

edit on 21-7-2012 by acmpnsfal because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-7-2012 by acmpnsfal because: (no reason given)

So you are trying to introduce derision based on your interpretations of statements of our fore-fathers? Do you really believe that guns are an all important factor in committing a murder? If you truly believe that man can only do harm to another via the use of a firearm, all hope for humanity is truly lost!

reply to post by acmpnsfal


www.veteranstoday.com...

Brevk saw itself as a Wjite Knight did he not ??
And what was found back at its said home address ???

So... the Christian God of commanding genocide upon those whom he disagreed with is going to protect the innocent from violence? I highly doubt that for some odd reason. With that said, I do agree the major problem is a result of the failure of our society to properly instill values upon its citizenry. This failure stems largely from the nihilistic belief of moral relativism wherein each individual may willfully invent his/her own belief system, immediately rejecting any notion of objective morality save the notion of not harming another (physically or emotionally).

There will always be violence, whether we have faith pervading every aspect of our society or not. Man will still be man at the end of the day. All the Christian God is able to do is scare people into submission with threats of eternal hellfire. Sure, this will prevent some lunatics but it will only fan the flames of others. We always have and always will live among violence; it comes as natural to humans as breathing or eating. It is where we direct our violence that matters. Most people will just shrug if you tell them an American soldier shot an Afghani "Islamist" but will be furious if they hear a man has beaten his wife or children.

As for the United States being a "Christian nation", while it is true that Christianity did play a role in the foundation of our nation, it took a backseat to an even bigger player. We must remember the Revolution was but the reassertion of traditional English Rights stemming from the Magna Carta (1215), Habeas Corpus (1679), Petition of Right (1628), and Bill of Rights (1689), all rights of Englishmen. These rights were being asserted by colonists from the British Isles and Northern Europe. If anything, the United States is a Northern European nation (not geographically of course). That has had far more of an impact on the formation of our government, the creation of our laws, the establishment of our traditions, and shaping of our values/morals/ethics than Christianity.

reply to post by Startruth144


Back in the '50's and 60's the adults were still traumatized by the war and brainwashed by the propaganda. People didn't "know" their religions, they were ignorant slaves, and happy with their picket fences and bank loans. They had refridgerators, toasters, cars and transistor radios! No need to work on spirituality, that was weird stuff to them.

It's their complacency and willingness to build this society on the back of WWII and the Korean War and Vietnam. Killing the commies was all they cared about, oh and Humphrey Bogart, John Wayne and Ronald Reagan.

Originally posted by Startruth144
There seems to be no moral compass with the rise of Atheism.

There does exist today (among Atheists and so called "religious folk") a moral compass. Except its arrow is always pointing at them.

reply to post by AQuestion


Why don't you attack the topic instead of the poster.

Better yet, take your rant to the other 20 some odd threads on the ATS boards about this shooting right now, instead of attacking the one that's exposing Christian hypocrisy!

Originally posted by Misoir

Originally posted by Startruth144
There seems to be no moral compass with the rise of Atheism.

There does exist today (among Atheists and so called "religious folk") a moral compass. Except its arrow is always pointing at them.

And your moral compass points where? It's unfair to classify any group, atheist or religious folk as morally wrong. Altruism and overall kindness exists in all walks of life.

Originally posted by Startruth144
My thoughts on this are strange, seeing that I am more of an occultic type. Over the last 60 years or so, you have seen an increasing hostility towards Christianity. Prayer in school, atheists wanting god taken out of everything, including Christmas etc. Most of our elders never encountered these type of tragedies. You never heard of random, wacked out, lone gunman blasting crowds of people just for the fun of it back in the good 'ol days, when most Americans were religious. Americans have always had guns, but these type of incidents are pretty much a today's problem. You hear of all kinds of new strange evils today that those 60 years ago never would have imagined.

I remember growing up in the 80's, even as recent as then.. I do not remember much of the crazy things you hear now days. It seems everyday you hear of some evil madness.. Some mom kills her kid, mass shootings, drugged out cannibals etc. Youth today have maybe 20% of the respect they had when I was a teenager. You would have never seen a youth talking to an elder like the kids on that bus, 30 years ago.

Most of the Christians I know personally and I have grown up with MANY, are kind, very loving people.. Including my grand parents. They grew up in an era where everyone got dressed up and went to church on Sunday, came home and had major family get togethers with plenty of food. Society was very moral, family strong, and respectful.. Today it is just the opposite. In my opinion, the lack of faith in SOMETHING, has brought on a very crazy, highly immoral society. Like I said, I am not a Christian, but with such a lack of belief in something.. Society has fallen into madness. There seems to be no moral compass with the rise of Atheism.

I feel like you are maybe romanticizing the past, a trap a lot of older people fall into. I mean murderers have always been around. I mean this is America, lol. Lets not forget all the Indians that were murdered and black people that were killed both during and after slavery. After that there are all kinds of bizarre stories from colonial times, my favorite is during the starving time when they ate each other. Weird incidents and disappearances blamed on witchcraft rather than people. There was a serial killer in America back in 1780. So time really is not the issue here. I assure you, your elders did know about these things. A lot used to be taboo for polite conversation, so if something like this did happen back then, it would not be talked it about in public or in front of kids. I'll add some links for you about murderers in the past.

Taking god out of holidays is just the right thing to do. Not everyone worships the same god so if the nation is going to recognize something as a national holiday it needs to be secular. Plus, most of these holidays are not god centered just consumerism. Most Americans still believe in a deity though, so I don't see this big jump in not believing in something you are referring to. Athiest are still a very small minority. Even if you want to blame non-belief, Europe has a large amount of athiests, is very secular, and has almost no serial killers or incidents like this. So its not about religion, belief in a god, or a lack thereof. This is an America thing, which is ironically one of the most religious countries on the planet.

The family unit has always been loose, the nuclear family is a myth, single parent families have always been more prevalent. Kids do have less respect for their elders today, im pretty young but even I can observe the difference from when I was a kid. But I don't think this is a bad thing. I mean just because someone is older than you does not mean they have any authority over you or deserve respect. Like these kids do still respect elders, but usually only those relevant to their life. If they dont know you, they dont owe you anything. Thats just my personal opinion though. Kids in the past most likely only respected other adults out of fear of it getting back to their parents if they lived in a small community.

As an occultist im a little confused as to why you have a problem with god being take out of these things. I mean most occultist I talk to think christianity is a sham and an extremely watered down and simplified explanation of how things really are beneath the surface.

Mass Murders from the 70s on

Mass murder in 1927

Mass murder in 1700s

reply to post by DocHolidaze

Eh, not outlaw everything. I think we could improve on guns. Like make everyone get a gun license and have to pass a psychological exam to get the license to ensure guns are only given to stable individuals.

reply to post by ajay59

Never said guns are the only problem, just that more guns isnt the solution.