Syria Shoots Down Turkish Jet, Turkish Navy Massing, Article 4 NATO Treaty Invoked...

reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher


Cold hard facts do, but most countries in NATO do their best to AVOID going to war. They don't have the military to support small actions like this would be. Why do you think the US is involved so often. Most of the refueling support comes from the USAF, along with logistical and ISR capabilities. Not to say that European nations DON'T have capable militaries because they do, they just don't have big enough militaries to be involved in multiple conflicts (there are still several countries in Afghanistan), or want to get involved in the area, as there is no benefit to them.

We must remember, if they want this War now, they will have it, regardless of Facts and Articles, they can find loop holes, likewise spin whatever tale they require to commence war,

we sit here saying they can't because it doesn't follow orders, but they can if they desire,

reply to post by Zaphod58


Most members of NATO try to avoid going to war hmmm? They say that yes, but the hard cold facts say otherwise.

Since the inception of NATO, can you tell me the percentage, of all the wars fought since, that involved NATO?


I am a citizen of a NATO country, and I am not trying to justify or negate the legitimacy of their reasons for doing so, but the facts speak a million words.

NATO, for whatever reason, is systematically removing any regime they feel are threat to the west, whilst positioning themselves favorably around the borders of Russia and China. Both these conditions need to be met for a war to be fought by NATO, either overtly or covertly. Look at a map, look at shipping routes (namely Suez) and supply routes and supplies (oil) that might be adversely affected, should a more direct resumption of the cold war ensue. What nations could really hurt the west if they declared alligience to Russia and China? Then measure that answer against what Nations regimes have been changed or are about to be changed, and you will have an answer.

The question is why? What do they know, that we do not? Why do Russia and China ignore human rights abuses from regimes that are favourable to their own, whilst slating anyone else, who is not? Why are Russia and China not taking Syria and Iran in hand, when they are under their realm of influence? Is it a coincidence that mleaders of both countries were big on communism? And big players in their respective fileds in upholding communism? Who are these nation states that keep attacking the west in cyber attacks? Iran? I don't think so....

It's funny that Russia and China now claim to be democracy's, when their politcal stances and actions suggest otherwise.



Mine own personal opinion, is that they have both been playing the 'good child', whilst waiting for an oppurtune moment for something big. Ofcourse NATO and it's members know something, why else insist upon this missile defence shield going up, and aggravating the aformentioned nations, when those nations are now 'good guys'? They just aren't announcing it to us just yet.

reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher


Individual countries have gone to war, on their own choice, but NATO as an organization has not often. Just because a country is a NATO member doesn't mean that it's NATO involvement.

But countries right now are war weary, and unless there's something in it for them, they don't want to fight. Syria doesn't have anything to make it worth their while, so they are going to try to not go to war (in my opinion).

reply to post by Zaphod58


You say that without any facts. I asked for a percentage of the wars fought since it's inception, have been fought by NATO (as and organisational body). If you want to include all wars fought by NATO member states,but not neccesarily by NATO as an organisation, the outcome will be even more damning.

reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher


That's because I have to go help work on a car soon, and that kind of research is going to take some time to do. I'll have time when I get home later tonight after work, if I'm not a zombie. Tomorrow at the latest. Don't worry, I try hard to post facts with citation as much as I can.

No worries.

Btw, when the world is at war, economies and wether a country can afford to be at war, doesn't really come into play. Supplies, Industrial capacity, weaponry and manpower, however does.

Still not so much as a word about the pilots on any of the reporting I've seen.....Doesn't this strike anyone else as odd?

If the pilots were killed, surely the Turks would have mentioned it?

If not, surely we would be hearing about the search and rescue operation?

This whole thing is more than a little bit fishy!

reply to post by squarehead666


I was thinking the same..

Intuition suggests that the plane was a remotely controlled, pilotless plane, sacrificed to increase tensions..

Seems very staged..

Very Ferdinand-esque......

Originally posted by EvanB
reply to post by votan

 

Lets hope your smug laughter continues..

Indications are that Russia and China are moving navy vessels to the area..

Perhaps you will find that funny too hey?

It is not smug. No WW3 scenario will come of this. YOu were claiming OH WE WILL BE AT WAR BY TOMORROW> And nada zip zilch. it is not a smug attitude.. it is just that we cannot be drama queens and expect every little thing that goes wrong in this world as a WW3 trigger.

OH vessels move big woopdee doo. I don't find war funny but i do find people overreacting without being in the know about such matters and only speculating about what could happen funny.

The article I linked didn't make it sound like turkey was out for war. I have family in russia and they are always talking about the news to my wife on the regular and this hasn't really been mentioned... and mother in law just spends time on news and likes to gossip.

You might want to switch to decaf and stop being such an emo about WW3 and how we are all going to die.

reply to post by squarehead666


There IS a search and rescue going on, by the Turkish Navy, and the Syrian Navy both.

The Syrian Foreign Ministry spokesman has revealed that the aircraft was downed by anti-aircraft fire and not by a radar-guided missile.

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Syrian air defenses had to react immediately to a Turkish jet flying at 100 meters altitude inside Syrian airspace in what was "a clear breach of Syrian sovereignty", Foreign Ministry spokesman Jihad Makdissi said on Monday. "Syria reacted to the breach," he told a news conference about the incident on Friday. "We had to react immediately, even if the plane was Syrian we would have shot it down," he added. Makdissi said the jet -- a Turkish airforce F4 Phantom -- was shot down by anti-aircraft fire, not by a radar-guided missile. Despite the incident Syria remains committed to a "neighborly relationship" with Turkey, Makdissi said.

www.cnbc.com...

Originally posted by tommyjo
The Syrian Foreign Ministry spokesman has revealed that the aircraft was downed by anti-aircraft fire and not by a radar-guided missile.

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Syrian air defenses had to react immediately to a Turkish jet flying at 100 meters altitude inside Syrian airspace in what was "a clear breach of Syrian sovereignty", Foreign Ministry spokesman Jihad Makdissi said on Monday. "Syria reacted to the breach," he told a news conference about the incident on Friday. "We had to react immediately, even if the plane was Syrian we would have shot it down," he added. Makdissi said the jet -- a Turkish airforce F4 Phantom -- was shot down by anti-aircraft fire, not by a radar-guided missile. Despite the incident Syria remains committed to a "neighborly relationship" with Turkey, Makdissi said.

www.cnbc.com...

Most countries would merely send escort fighters to escort the fighter out of their airspace. Syria is shooting their nose to spite their face on this one! If I were them, I'd do everything in my power to keep all outside interference at bay. Giving NATO an excuse to intervene will absolutely spell doom for the Asad regime and potentially an escalation of Russian/US tensions.

reply to post by Trajan

I think the 'war games' is just a front to have a force in the region for what SHTF.

Or perhaps to prevent the SHTF maybe?

Interesting fact that there was an elder orthodox monk that somewhat foretold 20-30 years ago what is now happening in Eastern Mediterranean sea.

His name was Paisios Παισιος

www.youtube.com...
orthodoxchristianreligion.blogspot.gr...
hellasfrappe.blogspot.gr...

and more words from him
www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by Moneyisgodlifeisrented
Well we have a Air force base in Turkey, nestled right next to the border of Syria.
I would be willing to say, that we are 2 sheets away from having some issues take place.

Incirlik, A.F.B. Turkey

This all kinda fits, economic issues around the world, ok let's have a war.

My daughter in-laws brother is on this base right now, he's an AF MP.

The main gate is closed, nobody in or out, security is at highest levels.



As far as Syria not knowing it was a Turkish plane goes,

Who's did they think it was?

Pretty much every option is a bad outcome for Syria. The rebels don't have aircraft, so it was obviously not theirs.

It's starting to look like war is coming.

Here come the video of the "plane shooting" look near the coast for me

www.liveleak.com...

sad we dont see the plane realy

reply to post by EvanB


I knew someone was going to mention Archduke Ferdinand and Sophie!

An interesting update. Supposedly they have recovered the tail of the aircraft and other wreckage that shows heavy caliber machine gun holes in it, which means it was much closer than the 13 miles that Turkey says. There is also supposed to be a recording of Syrian radio communications that show that they knew it was a Turkish aircraft.

theaviationist.com...

Originally posted by squarehead666
Still not so much as a word about the pilots on any of the reporting I've seen.....Doesn't this strike anyone else as odd?

Yes I think it's very strange. I suspected from the outset that the jet was remote controlled for the purpose of probing Syria's air defenses.