The Reason Some Americans Hate Immigrants...it's not because they are "illegal"

reply to post by TheRedneck

Now it is you who are arguing my point. that is exactly what the legal immigration process is there to accomplish. Admittedly it is bloated and inefficient, but that can be fixed... well, that can be fixed as soon as we stop the illegal immigration. No sense worrying about the front door until you put the back wall up.

Or, we can fix the front door so it functions properly...and then no one will bother walking around to the back door to get in.

You talk about living in reality...but you are living in a fantasy world where you think you can successfully patrol a 2000 mile long border.

The only way to stop that is by making it more attractive to enter legally.

You have made multiple references in this thread to "lazy Americans", with the obvious insinuation that all Americans are included in this description. Now you want to stop excluding those who can prove themselves not "lazy" to you?

There are lazy Americans...many of them. There are also many Americans that aren't lazy.

I never said "all Americans are lazy"....I am defining the group I am talking about..."Lazy Americans"...."Americans" who are "lazy".

No one has to prove anything to me...the lazy ones know who they are.

No, they feel ENTITLED to it because they BUILT it!

Ummmm...no...they feel entitled to it because of their geographical birth location.

They didn't build a damn thing...maybe their ancestors...but they don't get credit for what they did.

reply to post by TheTardis

Yep.. Go to any McDonalds down my way and instead of high school kids they are full of immigrant workers. I wont say illegal on that because I am assuming that if McDonalds hired them they are probably legal but I bet they are still working for minimum wage and those jobs are not going to a local high school kid.

And how do you know they are "immigrants"???

Do they wear a sign?

Outkast why don't you just start saying "I know you are but what am I", that about perfectly sums up 9/10 of your posts.

I don't HATE immigrants like you would like to say, I'd just like my countrymen to be taken care of FIRST.

Maybe things are different in America but in Australia I can assure you the aslyum seekers we get are not hard working. They get free housing, free internet, free education, free food and water, pay no taxes, get free cars, and don't have to look for work?
Its the Australians who are doing all the work and these third world scum leach off us.

reply to post by seeker1963

Let's not forget! Have you taken a peak at Mexico's immigration policys???? DOUBT IT!!! They throw people in prison if they don't have the proper papers!

Mexico has a crappy and corrupt government.

Do you want to emulate them...are they your role model...should we aspire to be like them???

Originally posted by MRuss
I see you didn't take my challenge. In fact, you ignored my entire post because just like any good liberal, you can't back up your "theories" with proof.

What!?

That's just silly. Stick to reality. No need for the false dichotomy of liberal vs. conservative.

This is a CIVIC issue.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
My point has been proven over and over by people in this very thread.

Wrong. Your point has been proven over and over in your own mind, and that's about it. You claim that Americans are afraid of competition for employment? What, for farm work, mowing lawns, cleaning hotel rooms and homes or working inside slaughter houses or fast food chains? Yeah right bro.

Come on now my friend? That is such a crazy assumption, and so far from the truth.What Americans are sick and tired of, is having to pay for illegals health care, schooling and incarceration ect. Americans don't want those jobs, Oh and hey, isn't that what you guys have been screaming in defense of illegal immigration for decades, that they take the jobs that we don't want? So which is it? Make up your minds.

I am terrified that some illegal alien is gonna steal all my clients? There are none in my industry. See how crazy that sounds? Now, you could say that there are alot that compete in the Construction industry, but it's the Americans that bring them in and take them under their wings. I know because I have seen it myself but you're in error if you believe that these guys feel threatened by them. They teach them everything they know and before long they are running their own crews making very good wages..

One thing I do agree with you about is that most are here to find work, work and provide for their families. The criminal types are in the minority. The majority are without a doubt out their busting their butts for crap wages. These are very good, honourable people. I have spent alot of time down in Mexico as well, and have never had anyone ever be rude to me. I know that may not always be the case, but that's my experience anyway. So yeah, I think that your assumptions about us pretty much amount to nothing more than mindless drivel. ~$heopleNation

I am pretty certain the Native Indians hate the European immigrants and the way they were treated.

Originally posted by jjf3rd77
I think only two people agreed with you OutKast.

Take the hint...

Oh...is that what we should aspire to...to have people agree with us???

I didn't expect many people to agree with me here on ATS...if you haven't noticed it is a bit of a right wing crowd.

I'm stating my opinion...I really don't care if it is popular or not....I don't need others to validate my beliefs like some others may.

Originally posted by LastProphet527
reply to post by OutKast Searcher

 

I wonder what the Indians think about the illegal Immigrants that are over here to

!

being 1/2 American Indian we were beaten out by lies and fire power .To me not long be for Mexico does the same

reply to post by TheRedneck

It really sounds like you want to just let everyone walk out without bothering to pay... I was trying to be generous.

Really??? I think I have made it clear that I want to make it much easier for people to enter legally to solve the "illegal" problem.

Link to that post please? I don't think I have ever said any such thing. I have said I want the border closed to illegal immigration... I have said I want illegal immigrants deported back home... but never have I said I want to restrict legal immigration.

Do you want to make it easier???

In fact you said that you want to find out if they are criminals (or potential criminals) or not...still not sure how you are going to determine that...but seems like that is going to slow things down.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
I'm stating my opinion...

You're stating your opinion as fact with no facts or data to back it up. Just broad generalizations. C'mon man I am disappointed in you that you have sunk to such low levels. I never knew you were this much of a liberal democrat. We were partners against the Paul crowd. I thought you were smarter than this.

Please stop playing the race card!!!! It only hurts people and makes them angry because you are calling us all racist saying that we hate all immigrants and we want to shoot people's families up and chop their hands up...

I was using the hand chop punishment as an example. You took it out of proportion but then you say, we can't do the same thing to you/them...

This is why I said you were beginning to sound like a Paulbot...

reply to post by TheRedneck

It is... at least it will be when people like you quit trying to call others lazy for having what they built or trying to give it away to criminals.

You, sir, believe it or not, are the very reason immigration is as difficult as it is. It's hard to fix a problem when people are doing everything they can to make new ones.

Not really...it is people like you who say we can't do ANYTHING until we 100% completely shut down all our borders...you are the one making it hard for anything to get done.

I simply want it to be easier for them to enter legally...thus taking away any desire for them to enter illegally...and look at that...problem solved.

But you won't even consider that until you build your fence...or your fence next to a wall...or a fence on top of a wall...or a wall and a moat...or whatever other crazy idea you think will keep people out.

I don't hate immigrants....

And I have a unique perspective as a Native American which gives me license to point out the
inherent hypocrisy in most threads like this.

But I also live in Texas in an economic climate that is better than most of the country where jobs
actually do get taken by undocumented workers.

My personal experience....

I have two brothers in construction for the last thirty years. One does concrete, homes, driveways,
sidewalks, patios, and some commercial jobs as a small business owner, and the other does
remodeling, framing, some electrical and plumbing, as a jack-of-all-trades type small business owner.

The brother that does remodeling is MORE affected by a poor economy where people simply
don't have the funds to pay for improvements for their homes, than he ever has been by
undocumented workers. The reason is because this type of business (after thirty years)
is largely return customer related, word of mouth referral, and Angie's List referral. An undocumented
small business owner has a much harder time securing contracts in this area because of trust issues,
lack of referral business and often outright prejudice.

The other brother, however, has helped create his own problems.

The concrete business is unique in that it only takes one or two men to secure the contract, get the
permits, lay the forms for the foundation, and with diggers and tractors have the pad ready for
concrete. But when the concrete comes it may take up to a dozen semi-skilled laborers on
concrete day to get the job done....

This brother extensively used undocumented workers on concrete day--they were readily available and
waiting for work on local downtown street corners, and parking lots of home improvement stores.
They were paid as contract laborers for one day's work.

His problem is that many of these workers became semi-skilled and began small businesses of their
own. In the concrete business (on a residential home for example) the initial bid for the home is
very competitive and little profit is made from the pad itself---the profit comes with the driveways
and sidewalks and patios (which are two man jobs and are usually tied-in the contract of the home build).

But builders began separating these jobs and undocumented business owners (which my brother
helped train, and benefited from) began taking these jobs from him.

So now with thirty years in business and good reputation he can barely make ends meet...and his two
boys which both had begun there own concrete businesses have sold their equipment and
taken jobs instead of working for themselves.

Now part of the blame belongs to my brother, who helped create...or let's just say he made the bed
he is now sleeping in. But part of the blame can be attributed to the low overhead of an undocumented
business owner who is paid contract labor and skirts the law. (one of his ex laborers--I know the
guy personally, actually secured a contract for about a dozen tract homes, employed a dozen
laborers to set up, finish, and pour....and then on the last day called immigration (on his own workers)
and had them sent back from whence they came before he had to pay them. He also ran up big
bills with several concrete companies and then instead of using the money to pay his bill, put the
money into the *quick* construction of his own house and defaulted on his bills. Now he runs a
mobile taco stand...with a home that's paid for...and though you can't apparently tell...he is still
an undocumented worker.)

Now that was just an interesting anecdote...I'm not trying to say undocumented workers are
are all evil and manipulative...in fact, they mostly are hard workers, more driven to succeed
by virtue of the circumstances and lack of opportunity from the country that they emigrated from.

I guess the point of this ramble is that undocumented workers DO sometimes take skilled
labor opportunities from American citizens...it is a refutation of the argument that immigrants
only take jobs that Americans don't want, or won't do. This may often be the case, but is not
always true.

My unique perspective as a Native American does make the whole point moot though...(Although
I do enjoy the blistering self-righteous hypocrisy of some people in threads like this).

We are, after all, all human, and the playing field is level for all (save for government subsidy and
corporate monopoly).

Undocumented workers are not here in-mass trying to take your jobs...they are here for the opportunity
to work, and in our supply and demand economy, their presence does drive down wages. Their
standards are third-world and so they require less than the average American with first-world
tastes.

Originally posted by borracho
reply to post by jheated5

 

The only real way to combat illegal immigration would be to go after the employers that are exploiting the immigrants. Nobody seems to want to talk about that though. Star shutting down businesses that are found to be employing illegals whether knowingly or not and they will vet their prospective employees very thouroughly.

I'm fine with that policy.

Go after employers that hire illegals and make it easier to enter the country legally...problem solved...we don't even have to build a wall with a fence that have armed guards on it.

reply to post by fleabit

It's difficult to hang with someone who is willing to take wages well below even minimum wage, working for no benefits. Are you suggesting Americans are lazy because they don't have 12 relatives living with them, living on meager wages, and providing no health benefits to their family? What fantasy land are you living in?

Then work harder or perform better...sorry...dont' know what to tell you.

Your comment that race means nothing, and hard work does was also hilarious. You don't live in reality. In my reality, the company I worked for let me go and others to meet a RACIAL quota. Yes, I was fired because I was white. Performance had nothing at all to do with it.

Then sue that company...because that is illegal.

Of course...that is only if that is the actual reason and not just your imagined reason.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by borracho
reply to post by jheated5

 

The only real way to combat illegal immigration would be to go after the employers that are exploiting the immigrants. Nobody seems to want to talk about that though. Star shutting down businesses that are found to be employing illegals whether knowingly or not and they will vet their prospective employees very thouroughly.

I'm fine with that policy.

Go after employers that hire illegals and make it easier to enter the country legally...problem solved...we don't even have to build a wall with a fence that have armed guards on it.

Stupid idea.

If you want to destroy the US economy then that would be a good way to do it, keep going after small business and the ability to start one. It's not like the deck isn't already stacked against small business owners.

Right now we are moving more and more towards a grand monopoly, inevitably a totalitarian corporate oligarchy. Criminalizing people starting organizations of their own is only going to exacerbate that.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
After reading the reply after reply in immigration threads from American citizens that are very against immigrants (some with vile hatred)...I think I know what the problem is.

Some American citizens fear competition from immigrants because they know the immigrants will win hands down in the job market.

The immigrants are more driven, harder working, and in a lot of cases smarter than these American citizens who are complaining about them. But they can't admit that...because of their American ego...so they just go with that these immigrants are criminals, stupid, and lazy....even though it just isn't true.

These immigrants come here to WORK their asses off to provide a better life for their children. Their children see all their parents have done for them and in turn they WORK their asses off to become successful in this country. They come with one goal...to WORK.

The Americans in this immigration threads that are complaining about these immigrants are just scared because they know they can't compete with them...because in fact they are the lazy ones...they want the job that gives them everything for doing nothing...they want to get paid a ton of money for little work...they aren't willing to sacrifice to give their children a better life...they want it NOW and they want it for THEMSELVES.

Immigrants aren't lazy, they risk their life in most cases just to get here. They'll take a job that gives them little for doing more work in a day than most people do in a week. They just want to get paid a little money to feed their family (regardless if they live here or in another country). They are willing to sacrifice to give their children a better life. They will do without now, so their children and family can have better later.

What we see here is the difference between two types of people, this subgroup of Americans that hate immigrants because they feel ENTITLED to be successful just because they are a citizen. And we have the immigrants who feel DETERMINED to be successful despite if they are a citizen or not.


That is what it all comes down to...it isn't about breaking the law...it isn't about speaking a different language (well...maybe for some)...it is about ENTITLEMENT vs DETERMINATION.

Correct.

Although we also shouldn't forget about just plain old-fashioned racism and xenophobia. Northern Wisconsin has a hell of a lot of Russian and Eastern European immigrants who come to work at the resorts. It's funny how often they are referred to as "good kids" while the Mexican kid washing dishes right next to them is "stealing jobs".

reply to post by Golf66

Really, we had no idea – I bet you hate America and think we are imperialist pigdogs too

I'm an American...I love America...that's why I continue to live here.

Look we all know its “cool” to bash America and cry racism

Who cried "racism"???

They are not only illegal immigrants but fraudsters and thieves

There you go...demonize them...hate them...make them the boogeyman.

Then again claiming racism is such an overused meme today. I guess because it works toward the advantage of those who have no real substance to their argument otherwise. People are afraid of being labeled racist.

Again...who mentioned anything about racism???

I think maybe you are projecting.

Originally posted by JiggyPotamus
I couldn't even continue reading because this thread contains so much ignorance. First of all, you don't know what other people think, unless you're psychic, in which case you wouldn't be wasting your time posting crap like this on ATS. Now what are you talking about here? Immigrants, or ILLEGAL immigrants. That's what I hate, illegal immigration.

I don't care how hardworking anyone is, when there is someone who will work for a fraction of the LEGAL limit, they are going to be hired. Hands down, because there are crooked employers. How do you think that is right, and how does that reflect badly on Americans? It doesn't, and that is why you are ignorant.

Maybe you should hate the crooked employers who are American citizens instead of the people just trying to provide for their families.