Why do some people in the west feel Israelis or jews are entitled to a "Jewish state with a jewish

identity ? When people in the west look at muslim countries or even at christian countries where religion plays quite a significant role in the politics, most people in the west feel they should get with the program already and become modern and their states ideally tollerant laical/secular states where people of all religions and skin colors can live in peace.

But when it comes to israel, many people feel the jews are entitled to conserve the jewish character of their country with measures that are racist and xenophobic. Many people in Europe and America would throw a tantrum if somebody would introduce measures to try and preserve the christian identity of country X.

Is it because of the Holocaust? Is it because they fear a jewish state, might give way to a muslim state that is even further removed from being secular than the current Israli state.

And yes I am well aware most Israelis would be happy with Israel just being another laicistic state, or at last indifferent to the matter.


Disclaimer: I dont feel Israelis should be subjected to terror and are entitled to react to threats of violent agression with propositional force. This is not meant for discussion of the Israeli-Palestinian Violence.

reply to post by Cassius666


I think everybody deserves a home.

Originally posted by DoctorMobius
reply to post by Cassius666

 

I think everybody deserves a home.

Well Israel can be a home to muslims/jews/ and Christians as a secular state, same as New York Canada England, I dont see why not. Many people feel giving palestinians citizenship would end Israel as a jewish state. I say so what? If there are just not enough jews around, to maintin a jewish minority in the long therm in Israel, why fight it?

I don't agree with this theory....i personally think religion should not be a factor in running a state. However, there are plenty of nations out there that are religiously oriented.....ie, Islamic faith.......or christian. Given the fact that the jews caught a shaft in WII, why not give them a small plot of land to hold up? I can understand the rationale, but don't agree with it...I understand the logic of giving a group something for pain and suffering, but i don't agree with how it was executed...removing people of another religion, and generally pissing people off. The separation of church and state is a joke, even in America.......so why shouldn't the Jewish religion have a nation? Should it be a powder keg as it is now.....maybe not....but should they be able to practice in peace..yes

Because they have been brainwashed by religious books and the media to believe so.

I mean if turning Israel into a lacistic nation like America or any European country means the jews cant maintain a majority in Israel and that Israel due to a demografic shift will cease to be a jewish state, because there are not enough jews around, shouldnt we just accept it as a fact of life and move on?

It's because they always use the excuse of how the Jews are always mistreated in other countries. So Hitler got together with some of his Zionist buddies and dreamed up Israel.

Originally posted by Cassius666
Why do some people in the west feel Israelis or jews are entitled to a "Jewish state with a jewish

Assuming your parents are decent people; you have to make up a story about how you obtained the stolen item you brought home, if you want to keep it.

That is the core.

What I am particularly intrigued about is the contradiction. The same people would argue that some of the measure that are needed to conserve Israel as a jewish state would be xenophobic, racist, backwards if somebody would even suggest to use them to maintain the christian character of a particular country. Like a jew and a muslim cant even marry in Israel, they have to marry offcountry and come back as a couple, IF they can come back.

its because they are white. at least in my viewpoint. it has to be. thats where the double standard seems to lie.
also that they are 'victims'. realspoke mentioned brainwashing or mind control (limited but existent) which plays right into it.

reply to post by Cassius666


That would be their problem. They can figure it out. Im not arab or jew. Israeli or Palestinian, it is their issue, their history their destiny. We can all butt out now.

The Zionists bought off C.I. Scofield and hammer away at Christians to this day with people like John Hagee, who is so desperate to please his masters that he has become an apostate. The pew-warming laity believe whatever pabulum their pastors feed them, never suspecting that they are bought and sold. I speak, of course, of political Zionism, not religious Judaism - do not confuse the two.

reply to post by Cassius666

The title of this thread is misnformed at best and misleading in general.

You assume the straw man position of "some people in the West" supporting an entitlemnt to the land known as Israel.

The U.N. authorized the settlement of the area occupied by The British Mandate in Palestine in 1947.
Jewish people forced out of Europe and other countries migrated there under the leadership of David ben Gurion.

Although the population is 75% Jewish, there are Arabs, Muslims, Christans and many others who call Israel "home."

A similar question could be posed for Western nations that are predominantly Christian, or Asian countries that are Bhuddist or Hindu.

So, what?

Would you deny any of these their "identity?"
Is it somehow wrong or suspicious to have a unifying identity; national, ethnic, or religious?

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by Cassius666

 

The title of this thread is misnformed at best and misleading in general.

You assume the straw man position of "some people in the West" supporting an entitlemnt to the land known as Israel.

The U.N. authorized the settlement of the area iccupied by The British Mandate in Palestine in 1947.
Jewish people forced out of Europe and other countries migrated there under the leadership of David ben Gurion.

Although the population is 75% Jewish, there are Arabs, Muslims, Christans and Jewish and many others who call Israel "home."

A similar question could be posed for Western nations that are predominantly Christian, or Asian countries that are Bhuddist or Hindu.

So, what?

Would you deny any of these their "identity?"
Is it somehow wrong or suspicious to have a unifying identity, national, ethnic, or religious?

Apparently yes, cause if you try to do that in the west.. the word Nazi starts to fly around and the ADL will be right on your ass. .

I don't think there is anything wrong with preserving your "identity" "heritage" and whatever, just don't get upset when others try to do it and stop trying to push diversity on people.

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by Cassius666

 

The title of this thread is misnformed at best and misleading in general.

You assume the straw man position of "some people in the West" supporting an entitlemnt to the land known as Israel.

The U.N. authorized the settlement of the area iccupied by The British Mandate in Palestine in 1947.
Jewish people forced out of Europe and other countries migrated there under the leadership of David ben Gurion.

Although the population is 75% Jewish, there are Arabs, Muslims, Christans and Jewish and many others who call Israel "home."

A similar question could be posed for Western nations that are predominantly Christian, or Asian countries that are Bhuddist or Hindu.

So, what?

Would you deny any of these their "identity?"
Is it somehow wrong or suspicious to have a unifying identity, national, ethnic, or religious?

Christian and hindus have countries/a country with a christian identity because there are so goddamn many of us. If Israel needs to resist multiculturalism with racism and xenophobia to maintain its jewish identiy, then I say this needs to stop and if that means Israel ceases to exist as a jewish state due to a demografic shift, then we should just accept it.

The reason Palestinians, those who want to, are not granted Israeli citizenship is because the demografic shift would end Israel as a jewish state. I feel very lucky that my particular religion is so popular and that my hollidays are national hollidays around the world, but I dont feel entitled to it and I dont feel xenophobia and racism should be acceptable tools to maintain the christian character of, say, Sweden.

Because the concept of Israel is based of a folklore fairy tale story, therefore it can only be a disaster...

When reality and intelligence reigns, there is progress and a normal life...

Originally posted by Cassius666

Originally posted by DoctorMobius
reply to post by Cassius666

 

I think everybody deserves a home.

Well Israel can be a home to muslims/jews/ and Christians as a secular state, same as New York Canada England, I dont see why not. Many people feel giving palestinians citizenship would end Israel as a jewish state. I say so what? If there are just not enough jews around, to maintin a jewish minority in the long therm in Israel, why fight it?

edit on 17-6-2012 by Cassius666 because: (no reason given)

I did the math on that and there are lots of ways around that problem and the constitution of theirs has protection for the state and keep in mind lots of Arabs Palestinians are already Israeli citizens and live and work within Israel.
But if the West Bank was assimilated its population is...2,345,000
Population of Israel is...7,879,500

So they would never be able to elect a majority in Israel in order to take over the state of Israel.
And the reason that nations like Canada for instance consider themselves a type of secular state, for instance Canada since its inception, has been a Christian country, as has America, its culturally bound in every aspect of our laws and ideology, and our holidays, and our manners and customs but we tolerate other beliefs.

Try to change our countries into something other than Christian though, and there will be another inquisition.

And thats because our identity as a nation, and our culture is based on the Christian ethic.
And our morals are also based on the Christian moral standards.

So its religion but more so in todays world its about culture. The Jewish identity for instance is no different than our identity, theirs just has different customs. And they are entitled to preserve those customs, since that is their national identity. People want to be certain ways as a people and as a nation.
The only time the world at large interferes in that is if the customs are so unacceptable to us from our own cultural perspective that we can't tolerate it. Like native cannibalism. The world of the past put a stop to that.

In Israel, no one is suggesting that the Palestinians convert to Judaism. And Israel has a good relationship with the religious governing bodies of the religious sites which would be protected as World Heritage sites regardless. Israel is a country, that has been struggling to get established. And they get accused of a lot of things but I will tell you this, they never gave small pox infested blankets to the Indians.

Yeah, I've been following them going crazy over there lately to get the blacks out and send them to africa. What a great irony huh? I ain't gonna get into the whole thing, but these people are VERY smart and at their core have a long term plan in place for themselves. The day of selling their BS around the world with holocaust guilt is running thin though.

If you want Israel to exist, go there and fight amongst all the people that despise you in the ME, leave us out of it. If not, let the sham country of yours go back into the rightful hands of Palestinians, and leave political affairs of the rest of the world to it's own people. You can't call people nazis then act like total nazis, it's got to stop.

As for the actual question presented within your thread title.... I'd wager very few people in the west feel that way, they just go along cause they are terrified of the anti-semitism and racist hammer they will get hit with. Besides the dough the zionist lobbyist throw around is appealing to political leaders.

The Jews have been around for so long because they have always stuck together. Enormous power comes from this and they understand this.

They also realize that mixing everyone else up makes them weaker.

A great example is.the recent deportation of illegals in israel.

Not much word from the ADL about that policy, but they are the first to praise obama's Amnesty to illegals recently, and were very vocal against the Arizona Immigration Law.

Abe Foxmann meets with the Israeli government on a regular basis.

Very strange... well not really.

When you say Israel is a Jewish state, it means everyone else is a second class citizen and they are treated like it.

reply to post by Cassius666


I think the way this pans out, is that rather than having Jews wandering around, and getting kicked around, they need to be put somewhere, and what better place than the barren heap of rocky desert of Palestine, since Madagascar did not accept them either.