I need some help with prepping(guns)

Hi.
Let me start with saying that I am not planning on going on a rampage, or doing anything nasty, I value my life too much. This is the main reason I am writing this.

My country is ninety percent against guns. Getting the permits and the actual gun is at least a three year process, involving at least as much money as I could get through at least four years without eating, heating, paying taxes, or living. Now, this kind of policy can have adverse side effects on the health of citizens. I normally adhere to laws. I don't drink, or do drugs. But our gun laws are bull#, and I wish not to go down defenseless, because my country says so.

Look around, the state of things, and you will see that planning for the worst is much more realistic than its opposite. Long story short, I need a gun. Nothing fancy about it.
I have thought about it, long and hard, and I don't have 1.5 million in my country's currency(the shooting range license, the medical, the minimum price of ammo, and the rental price would in sum, cost this much through the minimum required three years you have to show up when buying a gun)
You, americans(and pretty much everyone else in a more free country) have the right to own and defend yourselves with guns, we don't. That's a problem. As you see, I plan on surviving

I am lower middle class. I can barely afford living, not to mention the preparations for a hypothetical SHTF scenario. I have no record of violence whatsoever. Plus I hate violence, and killing. If I can evade it, believe me, I will(as I have done every time.)

I have amassed a few things I would need, to survive in the wilderness, I was a scout for six years, and have been on every(five each year) camping they've had, so I guess I could manage. Still, without a gun, it would be much more dangerous.

I've thought about what to do about it. Building a crossbow was my first idea, but I have actual training with only firearms(and briefly, bows) so a gun would be the best.
To be more specific, a long gun.
Now, there's a gun I revere. The Henry Rifle. It suits me, so please, don't start debating about it's qualities, or any gun's qualities, this is not the topic.

So, I have absolutely nothing, in terms of ranged weaponry. I have no skills at crafting metals, or mechanics. I can not order a gun parts kit, and an opportunity for buying guns would be crossing the borders, and going to a black market dealer. That I wish not to do.

Lucky for me, you can own a gun permitless if it's a museal gun. Museal pretty much defines a 150 years old gun design. This is the reason why I go with the henry rifle, and not a mosin nagant for example.(also, I fricking love it)

So, what I ask of you, is a schematic, and the name of the profession, who can make me the parts in low quantities(one of each, to be exact).
Alternatively I'd settle with a muzzleloader, but that's made of metal parts too, so it is pretty much the same(I know it's not. the henry rifle consists of much more parts.)

Ohh, I almost forgot. I don't necessarily ask for the original henry rifle designs. Any Lever-action repeating rifle is good enough for me. The only requirement is that it needs to have every data necessary for a metalsmith, to be built. I don't have this kind of knowledge.

So, If you could help me, it would mean life and death in a hypothetical scenario, so many of you believe will happen soon. I want nothing more or less, than most of you already have. A chance to defend myself and my other half in the future. If this means crossing a line of some sort in the eyes of my country, deport me. My life is worth more than the servitude of a stupid policy, and a government which essentially broke my country's spine, and tore its heart out.

Thank you all, in advance.

P.S.: Please, don't convert this thread into a debate about gun policies, ownership, or safety. I have read the statistics. In general, owning a gun is safer than not owning one. In this matter, I can not be shaken. Also, I am neither a boy, nor a psychopath, so I think I can decide what is best for me.
P.P.S.: I am aware of the fact that a henry rifle is not at all a safe weapon. I need not to be reminded. I did not plan to carry it around loaded, anyway.)
P.P.P.S.: Also, any kind of a schematic for a crossbow, or a muzzleloader would be very much appreciated.

reply to post by Narcissous


if your thinking about going with antiques to circumnavigate the regristration, look into a 1893-1898 Mauser 7x57 bolt action.

Uses a modern smokeless cartridge, kinda hard to get but its at my local gun store. You can always reload it too.
Very accurate, mine is more acurate than my modern sks. They're meant to shoot at range, the ballistics are supposed to be some of the best out there, i think the .30 06 (or maybe .308) was designed after this mauser round.

It was known as the Elephant round of its day, famous for being used by W. D. M. Bell who put down 1000+ elephants with it, mostly due to its extremely accurate shot placement.

I love this rifle, i got mine in near perfect condition straight to my door for about 300, 350 with shipping.

I have manuals that contain parts lists and assembly and disassembly instuctions and diagrams but they do not contain the specs for the parts. My manuals are all NRA manuals and can be purchased on many websites like amazon, ect.

For specs I would suggest trolling the internet starting with the manufacturers websites. I'm not sure if you guys have actual gunsmiths or not but machinists can make the parts and the manuals like mine would help you assemble them no problem. I also don't know how accessable ammo is to you but that is always a consideration.

Well, I don't know about the laws in your country, but in order for this weapon to be strictly legal you would probably have to have an actual 150 year old Henry rifle, and not a modern replica. If you aren't worried about crossing lines, I'm not sure why you'd want such a firearm. If your true motive is to protect yourself, you would want the best protection you can get. It sounds more like you want something "cool" for collecting purposes...

Most likely the situation you're going to find yourself in would be that the only ones with good serviceable weapons will be the police and the military. During WW2, those that wanted weapons built their own throw away weapons (crossbows,Zipguns,kitchen knives) and used them to get better ones from some cop or grunt that wasn't paying attention! Any weapon in a SHTF scenario is going to have to be in a caliber that is plentiful, so if you are going to prep for the inevitable downfall of civilization as we know it, go to your library and look up antique weapons! You will be amazed at what you can find. Even in Europe museums have reference books and texts with drawings of these old weapons.
Your idea of the Henry repeater as your go to weapon isn't really practical. Lever action rifles are very complex in their design.There are over 90 parts just in the action itself that must be balanced and timed perfectly to work!
A bolt action is much more practical and the first part of my post is probably what you will end up considering in the event we do go down the drain and you just happen to be one of the last standing!


Zindo

reply to post by usmc0311


Thanks. In fact, I happen to know a machinist, who might help. BTW, I am, step by step, drawn towards muzzleloaders. The ammo is the cheapest, the parts are simple, and you can easily make gunpowder if you know how to properly char the wood for it. Could you mail me a schematic of a firing mechanism? I could figure the specs out for some extent. Thank you.

reply to post by mattifikation


I checked, and they consider only the year the design was made, rather than the actual age of a weapon. you can't really carbon date a gun anyway, can you? BTW, I don't say it's not cool, but yes, you are right. it isn't really practical. There is a henry rifle in my family, I got to use it too, sometimes, however, I can't get it, because I am kind of a bastard in my family's eyes(they are highly critical of my maternal ancestry), so they don't think I am worthy enough to possess something of that value. It is just that I love the design. Too much parts though. And no, I have no collection. I have two knives, a nepalese and a cold steel khukri, a bb-gun, and a bear claw. Hardly a collection. If I wanted something cool, I'd get that particular henry rifle.

reply to post by ZindoDoone


Unfortunately, I have a moral code of not attacking anyone who did not provoke. I'd have no problem mowing down police or military who are hostile towards me, but backstabbing a police officer would be rough. Also, I would like to get a gun before a particular kind of excrement falls into any kind of rotating device.
Anyway, I got the schems for the henry rifle, you are right. Not practical. I think I'll settle with muzzleloaders. With a little practice, man can shoot three times a minute, which is 3 times more than zero.

reply to post by Nephlim


The only problem is that if I'd be found with a weapon of this accuracy and superbness, I'd get life for conspiring the assassination of a high ranking politician. Considering the way this #ty country runs, or rather falls.

reply to post by Narcissous


straight from BATF website,
www.atf.gov...-definition
DEFINITION OF ANTIQUE
A. any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
B. any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica —
is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or
uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
C. any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol, which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term ‘antique firearm’ shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon, which can be readily converted to fire fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any combination thereof.


so basically if you build it now to antique designs it cannot fire centerfire or rimfire ammunition to be considered antique. Only modern muzzleloaders count as antique, and only if they can not be easily converted to fire normal cartridges.

The laws gets kinda technical here.

Trust me I did alot of research before buying my antiques, the mauser 1893 was the best antique rifle i could find. look at gunbroker to figure it out. Antique rifles are normally about $1k -$3k a pop, and they fire blackpowder and/or are muzzleloaders too. antique mausers are about $300 and are the best quality antique you can buy. they are the only antique that uses smokeless powder besides some 22lrs, or converted rifles. for the converted you have to remember they are not always safe unless the round its converted too is low pressure like 22 lr. Metaluralgy was not nearly as good back then.. however the mausers were mostly made by the germans who were very on it.

smokeless powder is alot better than blackpowder, easier to clean, doesn't give away your position, fires 20x faster, etc etc. you just have to start reloading....

here is a link to gunbroker with a mauser for sale for $300.

www.gunbroker.com...

here's an article talking about the mausers
findarticles.com...

reply to post by Nephlim


I live in europe, and the arms of ATF does not extend here. I'd happily buy a gun or a parts kit if I could, but there are reasons why I can't.
1. I'm poor as hell.
2. You can not get parts kits around here. Importing them is illegal too.
3. Nobody sells them either.
The only choice of obtaining a firearm I have, is if I get a machinist who will make me the parts, and a carpenter who will make me the wooden parts(stock for example)
I once went to a shop of this sort(gun shop), and they asked for a gun permit for buying a gun barrel. I swear they were looking at me as if I asked for a box of dynamite.

reply to post by Narcissous


ahh, sorry friend, i just assumed you were in america. that actually makes alot more sense now.

which country are you in

reply to post by Nephlim


If I were in america, I'd just get a gun. I am living in a country which absolutely has no constitution. By it, I mean right to own guns, right to free speech, nothing.
Recently a man spoke up against the president, and his second cousin's license to teach in an university as a professor was revoked. I not only need a gun, because if SHTF, I'm leaving. I need a gun, because sooner or later, either civil war's going to break out, or I'm running off into the woods. The leadership is deliberately #ing up the economy. A year ago, they made a statement that the country is brankrupt, hence most of the investors went away, so they could buy up much of the property, and the smaller businesses
I would give one of my arms to get myself out of the balkans, but we have barely enough money to feed ourselves(food prices skyrocketed in the past year) People starve, because the government spends all the nation's money on million dollar armored vehicles(we bought 200 or so, to every politician).
If this ain't enough, they brought in a lot of immigrants, and gave them voting, so they will vote to them. The European Union doesn't do anything.

Sorry for the rant. My ancestors fleed the south after the confederacy fell, they thought they'll be better off in europe. My mother has worked at the same place in the university as an administrator for 15 years, and she makes 250 dollars a month. The minimum wage by the way. This is how much the situation is f*cked up.

reply to post by Nephlim


Hungary. The sewage drain of Europe. The only place where law enforcement considers prop guns as viable self defence weapons. You know, this gun looking thing which makes a loud bang sound when you pull the trigger. They think it is a good tool for self defense. Taser guns are banned too. other banned items are police batons, optical scopes, laser pointers for guns, and night vision scopes. Of course, even with these strict laws, you can't expect the police to stop a certain minority with a katana in broad daylight, to enter a public transport vehicle, and then impale an elderly with it after he refused to pass the seat. Of course, if you stop this man, you get jailed for vigilantism. When I was fourteen, me and my mother were beaten up by two tough guys by day in a very public park, around at the center of the city. When the police arrived(after half an hour) they were long gone.
If only I could properly express my hatred towards this place.

I just don't understand why you people(americans) think that the right to bear arms is global. Here, owning a gun is not a right, but a serious felony. One reason why we have this oppressive government. The country is entirely subjugated to the will of the highest echelon, any attempt to 'play american' results in very serious backlash. No matter what they do, we have to obey, because the only revolution we are going to have is with pitchforks and steakknives.
BTW: here people use the term 'playing american' to anything which promotes freedom and inalienable rights of the people.
You can own a gun, we can't even carry a knife longer than 8 centimetres.

reply to post by Narcissous


ahh, sorry we americans do tend to assume everyone on the internet is from america. I get annoyed by it but then end up doing it too.. I read your first post as county instead of country, because america has very different gun laws state to state, my bad.

Going back to your original topic maybe a shotgun would be easier for a machinist to make than a lever action? from what i hear they're the home made gun of choice for gangsters, people even make them out of straight pvc pipes, since they're smooth bore. If your ganna go through the trouble that might be a good beggining/direction.

reply to post by Narcissous


WOW what a pickel your in, yet another reason for more arms to the common man. Enough said.

As for a Henry Rifle (nice taste BTW) the Big Boy series you can't go wrong the .357 would be my choice, you can load .38 special to reduce recoil and a scope could be mounted but not needed.

How about a Mauser? Old style rifle AND accurate add a scope and drop a deer, Even in Norway people can own them.

A Lee-Enfield is in the 100 year bracket too, 10 round magazine, all the pros of a Mauser get an Ishipore for .308 caliber (7.62x51 mm ) much cheaper than the .303

Or a Springfield 30.06 is a real humdinger BUT pricey.

All are EXCELLENT for scouts too, well good luck.

My advise is acquire an AK 47 some ammo and several mags and keep it out of sight and out of mind. Remember you can always move.

Slaves can't own guns....

reply to post by Narcissous

look through these sights, they are full of home builders, and there designs. I wish you luck.
www.weaponeer.net...
www.weaponsguild.com...