I need some help with prepping(guns)

reply to post by Nephlim


at least you don't viciously attack anyone who questions americentricism.
As for shotguns: I am not a particularly strong man. I can handle an AK(shot it with a few times)but I don't know how I could handle a shotgun. I heard they have a lot of recoil. Also, my guns would serve mainly the purpose of hunting animals for obtaining food, and I kind of dislike choking on the pellets.
Also, a muzzleloader is even easier to make, and I have the knowledge of manufacturing gunpowder(a bit worse than industry grade, about 85% of the efficiency) and in the woods, making powder and carrying a few bullets is easier than restocking fixed ammo. they are slow, but I am fast, so that would not be the problem. Of course, pitching against a squad of military would not be a good idea, but that is not because of the slowness of the weapon, but because they are superior in terms of training. What I could kill with an ordinary gun, I could kill with a muzzleloader too. A long gun, and two sidearms(one for my girl) would be much easier to make than get three military grade modern weapons. I know it can never get as good as a modern gun, but it's still much better, and I suspect I will be able to get better guns 'later in the game'

reply to post by merkej23


Unfortunately, I see that the replacement parts for a henry rifle would be much harder to obtain than to any other gun, and the tubular magazine is kind of a dangerous thing when the gun is running low, and the recoil kicks them together. plus when it is loaded, you can't uncock it.

I looked around the net, but ordering a gun here would be a very dangerous thing. If the mailmen spot it, I could get a decade in jail. The only reasonable solution is to get a simple schematic(muzzleloaders hence) and make it with a metalsmith. I could also get one around the border, but if I get caught, 15 years minimum.
Trading guns with the gypsies(sorry for the alleged racism, they are still the major gunrunners here) would be a risky move too.
I know owning a gun here is a felony, so I'd like to keep my crimes to a minimum.
But if I get a chance of getting my hands on a mauser, or nagant, I will grab it.

Owning a firearm may be a bad idea in your situation.Especially when they saw you had one,that would get you shot pretty quickly.
If bad does indeed come to pass you will have to find like minded people and kill your opponents and take their weapons.Hit a road block or isolated position with at least a 3 to one ratio.You could die as well but that is how fighting is done.Learn combat martial arts and tactics.the mind is the primary weapon I can bite with lethal force.
Make sure your decision is the right one.Others may follow if you succeed.
Perhaps archery or a crossbow would be a good choice.

reply to post by SWCCFAN


You are right. Thing is that I was born in quite a turmoil. I eat around once a day, so I don't have that kind of money needed to go away. Also, there's a person in my life who grounds me here(she is still in school), but after she's done, we move, and there is no border that can stop us.
An AK is good, but they tend to dramatically increase the jail time if the gun in question is the international symbol for 'terrorism' as they say. Plus, automatic guns don't quite impress me. I'd rather go with a gun which has much more accuracy, and can be effectively used for hunting.
Poor man boils with water as they say around here, so I will get my hands on one, if I have the opportunity, but if there's a choice, rifles suit me better.
A few years ago(typical false flag) there was an alleged school shooting, so they tightened the grip on gun laws. Poor people without connections can not obtain them. You either need the written paper from a member of the governing party, or a few million forints(237forints equal a dollar, but the minimum wage is 250dollars for a month) so an average law abiding citizen sucks balls.
Even more interesting, I have quite a few police acquintances, and they too have problems obtaining the permits for civilian possession. Military personnel too.

But my government still thinks that longer jail times and harsher enforcement solves the drug problem.
(you can get jailed for eight years for a single joint of weed). They fear that the public will rise up, so they take away the guns. Problem is, that there's quite a few people plotting to overthrow them in the near future.

Still, these gun laws serve only the interests of totalitarian governments and armed criminals.

Anyway: what you said about being slaves. I don't know if you read my replies, but free speech was abolished at the time our present government gained power. Much earlier than in america, the law for martial law, and the media law was established. They regulate what you can and can't know of. There was a guy who spoke up against them, and his second cousin's permit to teach at universities was revoked.
The first moment I can leave, I will. Right now, I'd rather die than stay. This is how bad is it.

reply to post by botay


Thank you. I can't build it myself(I have no equipment, or knowledge) but with some schematics, I can get a machinist who will build me a gun. I will definiately look through these.
Also if you can show me a site where there are detalied(with all the numbers for sizes of the parts and all) drawings of parts for muzzleloaders, I'd be glad. First I need to get whatever I can get. Later, If I have time, I'll improve my collection with more modern stuff.

reply to post by cavtrooper7


Good suggestions indeed. Though I was trained rather well in both survival and fighting with whatever you can call a weapon. I have studied Sun Tzu extensively, I was a boy scout for six years(where survival training was the most important aspect), trained in martial arts for years(multiple ones at the same time) I have bug out equipment, quite a good one. The only one thing I lack is proper ranged weaponry. My country really makes steps to prevent a civilian uprising. Which is logical, since they are the definition of a rising totalitarian regime. They coordinate information flow, they punish free speech, they are breaking down the economy and deny it at the same time. The ground beneath my ass is getting hotter every day, but without a gun, I can't risk leaving.

reply to post by Narcissous


Yeah well a henry is not my first choice anyway. BTW where in the world are you located? I could look up local gun laws sometimes there's a loophole in laws.

But since the Mauser is one of the most circulated rifles in the 20th century (WWI and WWII and mass produced in between ) So at the least you can yell Heirloom

But the gypsty way CAN be dodgy bring backup, though I'd not go that way, The rifle MAY be stolen (yup feeding sterotypes ) but get an AK or Mauser if thats the case, both have easy parts to aquire and can be hidden even underground with proper precautions, AND so simple any flaws can be seen PDQ (pretty darn quick) check the barrel. ALSO if your handy enough you MAY be able to buy a parts kit and flatten reciever for an AK and a little welding a few screws and boom AK, BUT I'd advise against it

If your making black powder/breechloaders just look at history, a basic smith can make a Aquabrusier (simple musket) or aim for late 19 early 20th century ideas, I'm sure precussion caps are legal wherever you are due to their need for mining/construction and make a precussion cap rifle, you can get a good stock premade from several places (try Cheaperthandirt.com) all you need is a top quality steel pipe a dimond drill and carful welding
and a little knowhow will make a flint/precussion rifle just look around and good luck!

reply to post by merkej23


I live in hungary. BTW, our leaders are damn paranoid lot, they made sure there's no law abiding citizen with guns who has no money(ensuring that the poor portion of citizens won't rise up, how democratic...)

I think I'll start with a crossbow(I feel things will be blowing away soon, and I want to have range). Also it is more silent than a gun.

Plus if I appear at their place with a few armed fellows, I guess it'd end in a fight, especially because I have some history with them.

If SHTF, wish me luck. I have to take care of a person other than me, and it'll be important to get the hell out of here as soon as possible. I indend on staying alive, even if it means I'll have to go knee deep in blood.

If I make some money, I'm sure I'll get a rifle. I'll take it apart, so it won't be a problem. If things get messy, I can always put them back together.

BTW. If things get f*cked, good luck! I hope at least us, ignorance denying freaks will make it.

After looking carefully at things, I got to the conclusion that we can't win the war. They have superior weaponry, more thugs, armored vehicles, unmanned airplaned equipped with all sorts of weapons. We are lucky if we can get our hands on some weaponry. The best idea is to run and hide. Try to stay alive. Open rebellions, and firefights will not win this war. They made sure of that. It'd be just another reason for them to enact martial law. We can not let that happen for the sake of the common masses. Something will help, probably, but until then, survival is our best bet.

reply to post by Narcissous


Hungary? wow! that is a rough patch of woods for gun owners.

As for an unarmed mass having no effect BullHockey as we say in the US. ANYBODY can win a battle haven't you read Sun Tzu? Art of War? Buy a copy.

You can make a composite bow out of PVC pipe there's a forum somewhere on ATS also as Che once said" As a fighter wins, he picks up new equipment he gains strenth while his opposition loses strenth." also I notice how we fail Sun Tzu in western modern tactics by over streching forces and supplies. If a SHTF does occur (and it will) what REAL soldier is going to stay with the military while his family and friends starve? A knife can be more useful than a gun in many situations.

Don't be grim my friend, you must keep a good head on your shoulders! BE positive during the worst, you'll either be called a leader or madman, and both are just fine.

ALSO remember, in the 1950's when the Soviets seemed INVINCIBLE, who fought back first? HUNGARY! No army no training just afew fighters shook the foundations of the world. You come from a people who never say die, I hope this helped.

reply to post by merkej23


Thanks friend.

I devoured Sun Tzu when I was 12. From an early age, even if not knew, but thought and believed that these are the last years of our civilization. I was terrified of this, you know.
Years later, I have learned much about the world, the controlling groups, the men hiding behind the curtains. It turned around. Now I want. I wish to see the end of them. I love civilization. I love literature and other forms of art. I admire human creativity and ingenuity, but I despise the system. I have much to lose, so I will not fight until they come against us, but I am preparing. I spent half of my life learning about survival, and forms of combat, and such.
I am well trained in knife fighting(though fighting is not an apt term. killing is better)
Point is, that I almost have everything, from gas masks, to survival equipment, military grade melee weapons. I always wear clothes which would be practical in a survival scenario.
What I still lack, is proper ranged weaponry, and this, although insignificant without the other stuff, it is essential, from hunting to fighting.
The problem is, that I am a very poor man. My family is poor, no matter we do, we barely manage living. I have no means to buy high end weaponry(impossible to obtain in legal ways) and the men who deal them, cannot be trusted(who can be, anyway).
I don't say I would be indestructible with a gun in my hands, but with it, I would be a real danger to anyone or anything threatening me or my loved ones. I really don't wish to murder people, or hunt down the government(even if I did, there are plentiful of spineless gits who would take their places) so if I could get a gun, no one would ever hear or know of it, because I need not to use it in this current state. However(and I see it is close(I have this sense. with it, I can more or less feel what is going to happen.)) when(it is more of a matter of when, rather than if) it happens, my first reaction will be taking those close to me, out of this place, into the woods, down south until we reach safe haven. For that, no matter how I despise them, I need ranged equipment. (Killing with a gun is like shagging with rubber on)
You know, I am well trained in using guns, knives also, but I am a rather slim and physically not well blessed man, so I'd not risk going into close combat if not necessary.

The soviets were a curious folk. I have not seen them with my own eyes, though. My bloodline has a history of fighting against occupying forces. If I ever manage to get a gun, it will be thanks to them(most of them sold their guns in black market before they left). Thus the black market price of an AK is rather low. But If there's a choice in guns, I'd rather go with rifles, than automatics. For ammo sparing reasons, of course. And hunting with a nagant is better than hunting with an automatic. Right now, a crossbow is in the making(provided if I can get a leaf spring)

The problem is with the current occupational forces, is that they are sitting in the high chairs, and nobody seems to notice things americans do.

Like, there was an alleged 'school shooting', and in reaction to that, obtaining guns legally were made to be harder(btw, the gun was illegal) It is an obvious bull#. The reigning party haven't done anything except enacting new taxes, raising the old ones, and spending millions on some 250 APC-s for politicians. The head of state turned out to be a fraud(his degree was fake) and still, they give him a mansion, which taxpayers pay(along with his lifetime payment for being head of state). The problem is that the party has 2/3 majority, so they can enact everything they wish. The union say it is unconstitutional and unlawful, but they do # to prevent it. Meanwhile people starve.

They don't fear of revolution of course, because they already disarmed much of the population.
Point is that they will continue to anally rape the population, and I am fed up with it. As soon as I am armed, I leave.

Sorry for the long and rantful post, but I had to share. Unfortunately, there's not much left to be looked at happily. This country endured hundreds of years of turkish occupation, few years of nazis, forty years of soviet occupation, and now a few feeble minded folks in suits ruin it completely. This country is done for, and I am not its captain, the ship will go down without me(especially, because despite the hungarian majority of my blood, I still consider myself as a confederate(paternal ancestry))

There's where the cotton and the corn and 'tatoes grow,
There's where the birds warble sweet in the springtime,
There's where the old darke'ys heart am long'd to go,
There's where I labored so hard for old massa.

reply to post by Narcissous


Wow deep man, I feel we're cut from the same cloth.I too am a poor man, I save and save but still its hard. I kept only the basics (pc, guns,ammo,my car and silver ect) You have a bigger roadblock, like your friends and family your bugging out with, and as far as guns, no matter what there's a way. Traps and theft in extreme SHTF situation a large amount of firearms are found after a battle. The EU are without a doubt proof Adolf and Joseph's politics are alive and well.

I hope you remain strong, If you want, the USA is here for you.

But I know your poor like me and thats not possible, Be strong my friend.

Rust powder is Iron oxide aluminum powder mixed with that makes thermite.When lit thermite will burn down through a tank turret causing the ammo to explode.
Tactics are all you really need.I would hope you could leave the country before anything like that happens though.
I though the days of the dictators and communism were dead,how little we really know of your people.
Don't be too quick to fight let them make the first move,if they do so it will be all over the news and get them noticed they would be afraid of that.

reply to post by Narcissous


Hypothetically speaking....If your plan is to build one illegally, why not simply BUY them illegally instead?
Note, that I am not condoning or supporting any illegal activity. It is purely a logical exercise, and a moral query.

reply to post by merkej23


I know, but I somewhat fear of the good ole US these days. I mean, if # blows over, americans will get the cream of it. I would go there, but I know no one there(not that I know anyone here), and sooner or later, me and my friend dynamite would blow up the georgia guidestones, It is a dilemma. If I still have time to move, then it is. Here, we have great forests and incompetent army/military, but getting out illegally from the EU would be way too damn hard. There are many great men, like minded too(here are just zombies. terms and thoughts encountered here in ats are completely foreign and unheard in these parts. people still believe that the government is there for us, and the system is adamant) but as I've said, too much military presence, and far too well equipped.(at least, you can get straps there, here, getting guns is nearly impossible.)
Really, I don't know.
Also, if fukushima falls apart, you can move to south america, I'd never move to africa(not for racism. too damn hot, and largely unpopulated.)
It is certain that first I need to get a large amount of stuff, but if there will be time, I'll think of it.

reply to post by cavtrooper7


I only though of thermite for blasting through fortified borders, for tanks I'd rather evade(if not possible, a molotov cocktail can always heck them up).

Todays communism and dictatorialship was elected by the people. Just like yours(assuming you are american). It is the most cunning and awful way. Licking your way into the parliament, then kicking the guts out of the same people.

What is growing inside of me, is that they'll never make the 'first move' they'll just slowly take away our everything, without a single bullet fired.
I know how to bug out and survive if the roof falls on us, but without a first move, this kind of thing becomes awfully hard. In the old world, half of this stuff would have caused worldwide rebellions, now everyone sits in front of the tally, and continues to ignore the crap they have sunken in neck deep.

I just don't know the moment will ever come. They'll just continue to fake terrorist attacks and ask for us to give up our freedom and fiscal stability for security. I, of course, disagree, cry out, speak to the people as hard and as well as I can, but nobody seems to notice, and nobody seems to care.
The ugly truth is, that the thing people least want is freedom. They want the freedom of comfort, and as long as nobody rams down their door, and disturb their tallywatching time, they will not lift a single damn finger. This makes me sick.

reply to post by Gazrok


Because I don't have a single damn clue on who could hypothetically() provide me with the aforementioned products. I can get people to forge parts of metal, and wood, but I know very few people(most of my time I spend alone, reading). Building connections was always a very low priority (it never really worked out for me). I know where to look around the border, but bringin through would be a rather risky move. And here, people tend not to trade with firearms(there's this indoctrination from all sources that guns kill people). Here, people actually believe that fewer legally owned firearms produce more security(according to estimates, illegally owned firearms outnumber legal ones 10-1. how safe is that?!)
Not that I'd ever want to use it. Only if I grow tired of this great republic and decide to start marching away from here. My current life and status is much too valuable for me to start grinding down people in the middle of the day. But existing without proper ranged weaponry is just stupid.
I can use a gun, and I am almost certain that I will not shoot myself in the head, but even if I do, it is my stuff.

I was just talking to a family member a few days earlier, and I don't really know how we got there, but she said that gun ownership should be punished as harshly as first degree murder, because guns are being used to kill people.
I said something like: Guns are needed to defend yourself from other people with guns and the gov't, therefore putting them down is alike to accepting slave status, besides guns aren't needed for killing. If X wanted to murder Y, easier it is to stick a ballpoint pen in his/her neck. Guns are not at all a good way to kill. They are heavy, and noisy. A fork, a knife, or a pen is not. Should we bust people who have eating utensils and writing equipment?

There are so many elegant ways to whack somebody, and a gun is none of them. But hey, let's ban them anyway, for the sake of safety(for politicians and armed robbers). If I wished to kill a guy, I'd manufacture ricin, or extract the nicotine from tobacco, both are much finer ways to kill an unarmed guy(or dozens of them) but I don't because I have no such objectives.

Who am I to argue? I am(not by choice) living in a country where the lawful thing to do in case someone breaks into your house, is to yield.(there was this guy who sat down ten years for killing one guy and severely injuring another with a legally owned gun, when they broke into his home. what an outlaw!)

Anyway, thanks for writing, it is always an honour to see a moderator, let alone a super moderator in my casa.

reply to post by Narcissous


I have a solution to your gun problem.

Come to America

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


Good thinking!
First, I'll somehow manage to get enough food and eat every day.
Then, I'll get a gun(in case # happens while I'm here)
After that, I'll only have to raise a few million of my nation's currency to be able to afford moving(let alone settling in the new world)
If all is done, the only thing I'll have to get is befriending a few high echelon politicians and people like that, so they will allow me to leave the country.
Ohh, you need visa too? The only way to get visa for america here is lottery, and I don't believe in it.

Leaving this place is like crawling out of a twenty foot mud covered hole with your bare hands. Without tremendous help, you are stuck.
As they say around here: You have to be born there.
They say communism ended, but still it is practically impossible to get out. especially if you are low middle class.

I could do so much. I am highly educated, I can write rather well(speculative fiction), I am trained in various fields of science. With these abilities, you starve to death here. There's absolutely no possibility of advancing in terms of class. Here, a poor man, no matter what he knows, or is able to do, will die a poor man.

I was never a popular man, I never had friends, so I spent my days reading and collecting knowledge. I distill and ferment high grade alcohol, I do hydrophonics better than most people, I know all there is needed to know about producing good tobacco. I am familiar with most forms of weaponry and tactics.
I have almost a decade in survival training. I write better than a lot of writers I know, and have a great deal of knowledge in most forms of literature. In short, in an shtf scenario, I would be a great asset. What I do not have, is power(money or powerful acquintances), thus still, despite all I have, I still see my situation as 'pretty darn f*cked'. The reason is that my situation(in terms of location) is bad.

You know, the problem is, that here, in my country, there are no people like ats-ers. They not only don't see the reality, but when it is shown to them, they refuse to see it, and just sit back and continue watching tv. No matter how prepared I am, a single man army is not an army.
I practically spent my last three years telling the truth(or at least what I know is the truth. the kind of stuff you start to see when you realize that this world is a scam) and warning them about the coming collapse.
It is like speaking to a brick wall. Not quite though. When you talk to a brick wall, and back your claims with as much evidence as you can, from as many standpoints as you can, the brick wall does not hit back with blind religious views, and does not reason with 'but there's a god who protects us and will do anything, so we need not to worry...etc.' A brick wall does not call you a fanatical idiot when it is out of ways to argue with you. A brick wall does not say that it believes mainstream media more than you, just because they are on tivo and you are not('what is on the tally must be right because it is the tally, and why would rich people want even more power at all?').
Most importantly, a brick wall does not contact a psychiatrist to cure you with half a dozen forms of medication which when you refuse, the brick wall secretly starts to mix in your food.
Reasoning with a brick wall is pointless, but reasoning with this kind of people is outright harmful for your mental and phsyical stability.
I, despite all my efforts, seem to have run out of luck.

Sorry for the long post, but it upsets me greatly, and there are not many people I can talk to about this.
To close it, here's a quote from Mark Twain, which connects here very well:
'It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.'

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX


by the way:
The two x's around your name.
do they stand for:
A. Drugs and alcohol
B. Drugs and tobacco
C. Alcohol and tobacco?

no agenda, just curious.

Depending on the laws in your country and whether or not they allow you to own a C&A gun you have some options. If you are allowed to own curio and antique guns I would suggest trying to get a Mosin Nagant, any of the available models are decent, M44, M38, or M91/30. I personally would go withal 91/30, the longer 28" barrel lends some extra accuracy. I recently purchased my 3rd M91/30 for $89 online, these guns are very affordable.

They shoot the standard 7.62x54 NATO round and ammo is readily available and extremely cheap. I routinely purchase bulk ammo at around $150 for 400 rounds of mil surplus. The 2 drawbacks to the Nagant is 1) the ball ammo is corrosive and requires thorough cleaning after each day of shooting, and 2) they are heavy guns with the full wood stock.

The weight issue can be easily avoided by spending $60 on a synthetic modern replacement stock which will shave 2 to 3 pounds off the gun and also make the gun more stable. As far as the corrosive ammo goes you just have to deal with it. There are some people that shoot. 308 Cal ammo in 7.62's to avoid the corrosion issue but I wouldn't recommend it, it is not the same regardless of what anyone says. 7.62x54 is a .311 barrel bore and. 308 is, well. 308 not to mention shoulder diameters and head spacing is different between the 2.

The M91/30 is also a very accurate gun (for military surplus ammo) with some practice, I consistently hit targets at 800 meters with mine. They are also notoriously durable and dependable, drag them through sand and mud, dunk them in water and they still shoot good. The benefits of a bolt action.

This may be more info than you need, just pointing out the benefits of the gun. If you can own C&A's this would be my first choice.