Free energy perpetual motion machine.

Originally posted by Wifibrains
reply to post by old_god

 

1: the load from the screw is on top centre of the wheel this puts pressure on wh wheel from the right angles. All the load is now in a small area (bearings) at the centre of the big wheel, but still balanced on top. There should be little risitance becouse you gain on leverage, by adding your water supply to cups or paddle at the edge turning down.

2: proberly not for it to run forever becouse the prototype will be using bycicle wheels. But if it works, engineering will over come this.

3: the power that can be drawn from this machine I'm not sure but I'll aim to keep charge in a12v battery. Then 2 then 3 ones so on.

edit on 22-5-2012 by Wifibrains because: (no reason given)

I hate to say it but all you are really gonna get from all this is a long drawn out lesson in physics. You would be better to learn the physics before attempting the work of building it. That would be a lot cheaper and less time consuming. Either way you will arrive a the same result - a better understanding of the physics involved and a better understanding as to why your idea won't work.

Just saying ....

Originally posted by Wifibrains
reply to post by old_god

 

1: the load from the screw is on top centre of the wheel this puts pressure on wh wheel from the right angles. All the load is now in a small area (bearings) at the centre of the big wheel, but still balanced on top. There should be little risitance becouse you gain on leverage, by adding your water supply to cups or paddle at the edge turning down.

2: proberly not for it to run forever becouse the prototype will be using bycicle wheels. But if it works, engineering will over come this.

3: the power that can be drawn from this machine I'm not sure but I'll aim to keep charge in a12v battery. Then 2 then 3 ones so on.

edit on 22-5-2012 by Wifibrains because: (no reason given)

Cool, as long as you can reduce friction and resistance (through load) you should get good results.

reply to post by MegaMind


That's how this will work becouse the leverage will be in real time unlike the jack, pump pump pump. The leverage will be constant with enough water flowing onto the edge of the wheel and from the right angle.

Originally posted by Wifibrains
reply to post by MegaMind

 

That's how this will work becouse the leverage will be in real time unlike the jack, pump pump pump. The leverage will be constant with enough water flowing onto the edge of the wheel and from the right angle.

You don't understand. The energy required to lift the water is the same as the energy produced by the falling water.

Some energy, no matter how well designed your machine, will be lost. Unrecoverable. But even if it weren't lost here is the REAL problem. ALL, and I mean ALL, the energy produced by the falling water will be needed to move the water back to its original position. What energy is left then for you to store? In a battery for example?

If your machine is designed just right - that it will move the same amount of water up as is coming down. That is the flow rate up matches the flow rate down - then the machine will not turn at all on its own. If the flow rate down is greater than up it will turn until the rate is equal. Then it will not turn ...

Like I said studying physics is quicker and easier. You are not trying anything new. There are better ways to get energy for only the cost and maintenance of the machine. Look into these and you may find a way to improve or better utilize concepts that really do work.

Look at heat engines you may find that fascinating. They are engines that run on heat. Consider the Sun as a source of heat for example.

I truly believe that "free", renewable, energy is the answer. Over unity does not exists. You are trying to make an over unity device. Not only is that not possible but it is not needed. This Universe provides energy in abundance all we have to do is channel it for our purposes.

reply to post by MegaMind


This is why magamind. My machine works on the laws of diagrammed 2 in this pic. You keep referring it to 1,

flic.kr...

Do you see now?

reply to post by MegaMind


People forget about frictional loss, and refuse to do the math.

Add in a 10% loss for every axial component, and it's easier to see the device uses more energy than it creates.

As a novelty, using energy to perpetually spin, it would be interesting to put out front in a flowerbed, and listen to the water trickling, just make sure to add water periodically.

Originally posted by Wifibrains
reply to post by MegaMind

 

This is why magamind. My machine works on the laws of diagrammed 2 in this pic. You keep referring it to 1,

flic.kr...

Do you see now?

edit on 22-5-2012 by Wifibrains because: (no reason given)

This idea you have will fail ... and from that failure you will learn. Good luck!

reply to post by MegaMind


And you shall never rule metropolis. if it works that will be a new thread and we shall meet again. Thanks for ur input.

reply to post by Druid42


One axial that's all.

Originally posted by Wifibrains
reply to post by 12voltz

 

If it works it will be so easy to build petents won't be nessasery, people will build their own. How much power can be drawn, I don't know. I'm hoping gears will run a alternator to hold charge in a battery. Not much I know.
I'm not interested in earning money of it I'm doing it so I can come less dependent on money.

First off, as had already been stated, it's not a closed system so it's not over unity. Perpetual motion is possible but only with a continuous input of energy. Where that energy comes from is the question. Without pictures and an better illustration of what you're describing, I'm not sure whether what your proposing is feasible or not.

Patents will always be necessary, especially with the change in the patent process so that whoever files first gets it.

You can file for the patent and then not enforce it, but if you don't file for the patent and it actually works, someone else will file for the patent and then not only will other people not be able to use it for free, YOU won't be able to use it for free.

Jaden

Let's not jump the gun, first it has to work.

Mega Mind is right in that this will never work. He is however wrong in stating that a conventional education is better. Tinker away friend, who knows your efforts may well change the world someday.

You ever seen air lift systems? You very much should look into the things around you and explore your ideas.


What would happen if the tower from the video above was 100 feet high and the air was injected through the pipe wall at ground level? Would the pressures be the same on the air pump or less? Water has a frictionless flow by the way. You should see the Conservation of Energy laws and Newton's third law of motion.

Remember what Edison said when he was asked why he didn't quit after failing to make a light bulb a thousand times. He said I didn't fail a thousand times I just learned a thousand ways not to make a light bulb.

Many of mankind's most famous inventors first tinkered with perpetual motion. If at first you don't succeed try again, friend. Take what you learn and apply it to your next project. That said you can take it to heart that Perpetual motion is impossible. The only thing over unity is the Universe itself and if it is infinitely old and never needed a beginning then even it does not apply. I think it is a good starting point though.

Originally posted by Wifibrains
reply to post by Pilgrum

 

That concept looks impossible to work. I had to re-design mine three times before I even thought it would work. Like I said balance is the key. Ball bearings make wheels turn much more freely now and my design looks nothing like that. This picture gave me hope not put me off. It's nearl 400 years old. We have come a long way science then.

You still have friction CANT WORK WONT WORK!

Good luck my friend. Do what you want to do, I hope this perpetual motion machine does in fact function for you, have fun and do not stop trying.

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


I couldn't disagree more. A basic education in physics, self taught, will be of incredible benefit. Its not like the human race hasn't learned anything of any value in the past thousand years. And its not like the universities have a monopoly on learning. I have taught myself several subjects using the web and books and become well versed in them. Physics being one.

If he understood what energy even meant he wouldn't be wasting his time on that idea instead he could be pursuing other avenues that could lead to something of real value. I understand the desire and drive to come up with something like this but his lack of understanding on the subject is causing him to waste his time. As he persists with that idea one way or another he will learn that the physics of what he is attempting to do is impossible. It is not impossible because I say it is - It is impossible because the universe doesn't work that way. If he persists in his efforts he will come to see that as well.

I applaud the efforts of people to think outside the box and come up with new and inventive ways of doing things. I just think that a knowledge of the fundamentals might just help save time.

edit: On a side note. I have noticed that the more educated an "over unity inventor" is the more elaborate the design and the more hidden the "flaw" becomes to even the inventor himself. No matter how elaborate - over unity does not exists. Harness the REAL energy all around us in an inexpensive device. That is free energy or nearly so.

Originally posted by Wifibrains
reply to post by rickyrrr

 

No, it's concept is the water cycle of weather. But it's a,..drumroll.....gravity driven perpetual motion free energy device, hi hat.

If it relies on solar heat for evaporation it is solar powered. If it does not then unless there is another source of heat or energy I reserve judgement until I see it working, but there is nothing in my knowledge of physics to predict success. Good luck though

-rrr

Originally posted by rickyrrr

Originally posted by Wifibrains
reply to post by rickyrrr

 

No, it's concept is the water cycle of weather. But it's a,..drumroll.....gravity driven perpetual motion free energy device, hi hat.

If it relies on solar heat for evaporation it is solar powered. If it does not then unless there is another source of heat or energy I reserve judgement until I see it working, but there is nothing in my knowledge of physics to predict success. Good luck though

-rrr

Actually it doesn't. He is simply talking about falling water being used to lift water back to the start again. He is using nature's weather pattern (evaporation and rain) as an example of perpetual motion. Which it isn't. Notice he says the water screw is like evaporation to carry the water to the "cloud" tank where it will "rain" (fall) down turning the water screw. No purposeful evaporation taking place at all.

All his references to weather, evaporation, and rain have nothing to do with it except that water starts higher than it ends and instead of evaporation moving the water up to the top again it will be a water screw turning from the falling water.

The concept is a simple as any perpetual motion machine can get - falling water to lift water. Hell if that would have worked the Egyptians would have had that working 6000 years ago.

perpetual water wheel

Whole topic defeated in one word:

Thermodynamics

Originally posted by MegaMind
reply to post by Donkey_Dean

 

I couldn't disagree more. A basic education in physics, self taught, will be of incredible benefit. Its not like the human race hasn't learned anything of any value in the past thousand years. And its not like the universities have a monopoly on learning. I have taught myself several subjects using the web and books and become well versed in them. Physics being one.

If he understood what energy even meant he wouldn't be wasting his time on that idea instead he could be pursuing other avenues that could lead to something of real value. I understand the desire and drive to come up with something like this but his lack of understanding on the subject is causing him to waste his time. As he persists with that idea one way or another he will learn that the physics of what he is attempting to do is impossible. It is not impossible because I say it is - It is impossible because the universe doesn't work that way. If he persists in his efforts he will come to see that as well.

I applaud the efforts of people to think outside the box and come up with new and inventive ways of doing things. I just think that a knowledge of the fundamentals might just help save time.

edit: On a side note. I have noticed that the more educated an "over unity inventor" is the more elaborate the design and the more hidden the "flaw" becomes to even the inventor himself. No matter how elaborate - over unity does not exists. Harness the REAL energy all around us in an inexpensive device. That is free energy or nearly so.

edit on 22-5-2012 by MegaMind because: n

I agree with you fully.Gravity engines are possible but they cannot be perpetual Motion Machine.

Gravity is a source of energy and that is the input energy to gravity engine.
A real gravity wheel/gravity engine does not violate laws of thermodynamics,

Why don't you try researching NITINOL. It is becoming more and more refined in its response to temperature change. A power engine whose drive is a response to its environment by a movement, and thereby changing the environment, which again provokes a response from the engine



www.springerlink.com...

foundationcanada.ca...

www.dtic.mil...

The naval research lab did much of the work on it, look for info there too.

Hi,
This is a good topic.

Isn't it about cause and effect? Energy is free, accessing it is free, harnessing and utilizing it is not...(using a volt meter; see what you're individual voltage is by holding the two connectors).

I use a diode on a 32v Earth battery to run a cd-rom motor, in concert with a 5watt solar panel. (panel acts as storage/load/feed???)

The drive pulley is twice the size of the pulley connected to an identical motor...having a diode in-line to maintain a constant charge to the 12v car battery utilizing an 400watt inverter. (very small scale)

I wonder if you could use an out-side means of perpetuating the flow of water like you describe, OP.
I say yes. Who cares if it is not a closed system? Think of a set of drums, all by themselves producing the only effect they can cause...add a bass, a guitar etc etc;

to orchestrate an effective cause is the prize after all isn't it?