A Chink in the Armor For Global Warming? Record Snowfall in Anchorage.

reply to post by jimmyx


nice little lesson there but has nothing to do with global warming.
climate scientists will agree with whomever funds their studies.
if climate scientist fully unserstand global warming, then why is there still debate on the subject?

reply to post by ErEhWoN


Yet again, reading comprehension is key. 150 years of [B]HARD[/B] data. Temperature records, meaning "on this date the temperature was 72°F", have only been kept for that miniscule amount of time. ANYTHING else is inferred. However, even 400,000 years of data is less than 1% of 1% of climate data, since the Earth is over 4 billion years old.

I even stated in my post that:

I'm not sure anyone believes that there is not some sort of a climate shift occurring on Earth.

The Earth's climate is quantifiably shifting, But, again, any scientist that bases it on mankind's influence because of 1% of 1% of data should be strung up. Especially since they're ruining the global economy because of their egos.

/TOA

Originally posted by listerofsmeg
reply to post by jimmyx

 

nice little lesson there but has nothing to do with global warming.
climate scientists will agree with whomever funds their studies.
if climate scientist fully unserstand global warming, then why is there still debate on the subject?

edit on 9/4/2012 by listerofsmeg because: (no reason given)

i answer that with this...if you have 100 people look up and say the sky is blue today, and you have 1 person say the sky is orange, then i guess you could say that there is still a debate going on that the sky is blue.

Originally posted by The Old American
reply to post by ErEhWoN

 

Yet again, reading comprehension is key. 150 years of [B]HARD[/B] data. Temperature records, meaning "on this date the temperature was 72°F", have only been kept for that miniscule amount of time. ANYTHING else is inferred. However, even 400,000 years of data is less than 1% of 1% of climate data, since the Earth is over 4 billion years old.

I even stated in my post that:

I'm not sure anyone believes that there is not some sort of a climate shift occurring on Earth.

The Earth's climate is quantifiably shifting, But, again, any scientist that bases it on mankind's influence because of 1% of 1% of data should be strung up. Especially since they're ruining the global economy because of their egos.

/TOA

to prove yourself right that there is nothing wrong with air pollution and the effects that it has on mankind...maybe you and your family could move into a house right next to a coal plant and have your kids breathe all that clean air coming from it. walk the walk, my friend, just don't talk the talk.

reply to post by The Old American


Yeah. The Gov try to make us belive that the Worlds warms up while NASA hidden photographs shows the Earth cooling. The Gov tries to add credibility to his global warming marketing scam by toying with the climate using HAARP devices, but HAARP just can't control all climates in the world at the same time.

reply to post by The Old American


Yeah, sure, how about this chink in the armour. This totally destroys the myth that the planet is heating up. Totally destroys it.
Watch and weep you global warming NWO dupes.


Yeah, no warming there is there! NOT.
I mean after all, you can't argue with observation, its a cornerstone of sience. Multiple locations, same result. Melting, but hey it can't be man now can it?

(CNN) -- March 2012 will go down as the warmest March in the United States since record-keeping began in 1895, NOAA said Monday.

global warming real !!!


proof !!!!

lol

reply to post by atlasastro


great video. i wasn't clear on your sarcasm at first. i thought the video was going to be disproving climate change

i think this is the first thread in fragile earth i've seen in a long time where more posters are NOT "global warming is a hoax" people. i thought everyone had left!!!

reply to post by atlasastro


Well, you posted in English, so I can assume that you read it, in whic case you seem you to have completely skipped, like other...special people, where I stated that the Earth's climate is quantifiably changing. It is. In places it is getting warmer. In some, however, it's not.

Like in Afghanistan:

Kabul has been experiencing its worst cold snap and heaviest snowfall in 15 years, according to the national weather centre. It said the weather was expected to improve by the end of the week.

Mongolia:

With temperatures reaching -40 to -60 degrees Fahrenheit throughout January, it was the coldest winter in local memory, and animals both froze and starved to death. Most families in Azraga said this year was even worse for them than the notorious dzud of 2010, in which almost 8 million head of livestock, or 17 percent of the entire country's animals, died and the government of Mongolia declared disaster status.

Japan:

It was the first time in 26 years temperatures remained below average throughout the three winter months in eastern to central Japan and western to southwestern Japan, and the first time in northern and northeastern Japan in 11 years.

Temperatures were at normal levels in Okinawa and on islands in southern Kagoshima Prefecture.

Climate change: scientifically proven.
Why: post hoc ergo propter hoc



/TOA

reply to post by The Old American

reply to post by mbkennel

Do you have quantitative evidence to suggest this?

Regarding solar influence:

A recent review paper, put together by both solar and climate scientists, details these studies: Solar Influences on Climate. Their bottom line: though the Sun may play some small role, "it is nevertheless much smaller than the estimated radiative forcing due to anthropogenic changes." That is, human activities are the primary factor in global climate change.

Global Warming - Factors

As regards CO2:

Human activities, responsible for a projected 35 billion metric tons (gigatons) of CO2 emissions in 2010 (Friedlingstein et al., 2010), release an amount of CO2 that dwarfs the annual CO2 emissions of all the world’s degassing subaerial and submarine volcanoes (Gerlach, 2011).

Volcanic Gases and Climate Change Overview

Refer to my previous post in this thread quoting a post of mine in yet a different thread about CO2 and it'as contribution to "global warming."

On the other hand:

The greatest volcanic impact upon the earth's short term weather patterns is caused by sulfur dioxide gas. In the cold lower atmosphere, it is converted to sulfuric acid by the sun's rays reacting with stratospheric water vapor to form sulfuric acid aerosol layers. The aerosol remains in suspension long after solid ash particles have fallen to earth and forms a layer of sulfuric acid droplets between 15 to 25 kilometers up. Fine ash particles from an eruption column fall out too quickly to significantly cool the atmosphere over an extended period of time, no matter how large the eruption.

Sulfur aerosols last many years, and several historic eruptions show a good correlation of sulfur dioxide layers in the atmosphere with a decrease in average temperature decrease of subsequent years. The close correlation was first established after the 1963 eruption of Agung volcano in Indonesia when it was found that sulfur dioxide reached the stratosphere and stayed as a sulfuric acid aerosol.

Without replenishment, the sulfuric acid aerosol layer around the earth is gradually depleted, but it is renewed by each eruption rich in sulfur dioxide. This was confirmed by data collected after the eruptions of El Chichon, Mexico (1982) and Pinatubo, Philippines (1991), both of which were high-sulfur compound carriers like Agung, Indonesia.

EFFECTS OF VOLCANIC GASES

And

For example, Mount Etna in Sicily emits 3,000 tons of sulphur dioxide on an average day, which is equivalent to the UK's total industrial emissions.

Volcanic pollution

Furthermore:

One fact stands out: the Tambora eruption produced "only" 40 cu. km of ash yet it influenced the world climate over several years. Toba blew at least 16 times more ash into the atmosphere as well as a vast amount of sulphuric acid, and that its debris reached much higher levels, staying in the atmosphere much longer. Particles blown into stratosphere could have remained there for centuries, even millennia, blocking and altering the influx of solar energy to the lower atmosphere.

Toba Volcano 4. Aftermath: Climate and Environment

So it would seem as though solar influence is minimal and greenhouse gases are more contributory to changes in climate.

However:

Numerous questions remain. For example, why has there been only a 1 degree F increase in global temperature, when climate models predict it should have been twice that amount, given current greenhouse gas emissions? What other factors are influencing global climate? Have the oceans - been responsible for moderating warming by absorbing excessive greenhouse gases? What is their capacity to absorb still further increases? Do current climate models tend to exaggerate the effects of increased greenhouse gas emissions?

emphasis mine

Ohio State University Fact Sheet - Global Climate Change

I will concede that anthropogenic global warming arguments seem to have some merit, but I will stand by my statement that there are other factors which need to be accounted for.

See, I can change my mind, can you?

reply to post by The Old American


Your asinine comments are encouraging, in fact I welcome them.

But what ever dude, you can try and side step the fact you have claimed to present a "chink in the armour of global warming" by isolating incidence and then correllating them as you see fit.
Not only is it incredibly weak, it is old and dated. AGW Skeptics and blogs and the MSM have been doing it for about 15 years now, yet the big picture just keeps on producing undeniable evidence that we are effecting the energy balance of the planet which is resulting in global warming.

Your simplistic approach to the topic is fundamentally this: you seem to think weather is climate.
You are simply wrong.

CO2 is undeniably linked with temperature. It is a fact, it is physics.

For the first time in the earths history CO2 output is climbing independant of temperature purely as a result of HUMANS.
That is undeniable too.

You may say that history demonstrates that temperature and CO2 rises have happen before, and you are right.
BUT, this time CO2 is rising INDEPENDANTLY of temperature, BY HUMANS.

History shows us that temperature and CO2 are linked, and have an effective relationship on one another. Again this is physics, and unquestionable.

SO! We know CO2 and temperature are linked. We know that we are putting copious amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere! We know through physics, that CO2 will effect the temperature of the planet.
It is unquestionable.

It is an easy equation, the sun is the input and the earth has a natural system that balances that input by being able to radiate that energy back out into space or store it in natural sinks like the ocean.

CO2 changes all that, CO2 we place in the atmosphere. CO2 output that is now INDEPENDANT of temperature yet has an undeniable effect and relationship with temperature. Again this is known by standard physics, and even skeptics do not deny this.

AND.....

We have global melts, excellerating global melts, everywhere on the planet. That means the planet is warmng. The sub-tropics have shifted some four degrees in latitude. Springs and autumns are coming sooner and ending earlier.
Globally.

The oceans around the world are warmer. www.argo.ucsd.edu...

Why do we need Argo?

We are increasingly concerned about global change and its regional impacts. Sea level is rising at an accelerating rate of 3 mm/year, Arctic sea ice cover is shrinking and high latitude areas are warming rapidly. Extreme weather events cause loss of life and enormous burdens on the insurance industry. Globally, 8 of the 10 warmest years since 1860, when instrumental records began, were in the past decade.

You can look at all the data yourself.

The best way to measure the imbalance of energy is to determine how much extra energy(heat) is being stored in our sinks. The oceans are getting warmer.
The above link is the result of over 3000 floats being dispersed through out the worlds oceans in order to measue this more accurately.
Again, this is global, not local or regional weather.

AND.......... we have had an extended solar minimum this past decade.

We are beginning to come out of it.

Its going to get warmer.
Alot warmer.

But don't take my word for it.

Early Warning Signs of Global Warming: Downpours, Heavy Snowfalls, and Flooding
An increase in global temperatures will lead to an intensification of the hydrological cycle. This is because an increase in surface air temperature causes an increase in evaporation and generally higher levels of water vapor in the atmosphere.

link

www.hewsweb.org... Look at this site, scroll down and look at the last three months of flood events and how many of them are related to extreme rain events, or precipitation.

But anyway, back to YOU with the weather.........."RECORD SNOWS today in Anchorage, A chink in the armour of Global warming?".
Umm, no! Just more evidence as predicted.

Technaically its solar system warming as all planets are effectivly heating up due to the solar cycle. And usually when our atmosphere heats up it equals more precipitaion than usual in winter or summer it makes no difference.

The jet stream is all jacked up as well in the upper level pattern, I believe this to be due to the compression of the cloud formations to a much lower area in the atmosphere from the previous heights they would normally form. Mix that with more evaporation and moisture and you get record everything happening everywhere, not just here.

Now living in Anchorage I will tell you this, in 20 years I have never seen such a boggle jam of snow. The streets in most neighborhoods were down to one lane with 8-10 foot berms on the side being a regular sight.

The city could not keep up with the snow removal and the city snow dumps were full to the hilt. So much so that businesses had to store it on their lots and loss of parking was a mess in most places.

The moose had a hell of a time with food and invaded the city becoming aggresive. We've killed more moose this season on the highway than any other year. And it's not like hitting a white tail with your minivan.

So ya for sure, something funky is goin on......global warming? Maybe, maybe not. If it is though understand that such a thing usually also ushers in a global cooling as well. Such a transition at rapid pace would also be cyclical. Of course the sun doesnt help either when its going into a grand maximum.

reply to post by The Old American


Here is a link to a programme called global weirding. It is about these extreme weather patterns and how they are formed and by what

link

reply to post by pasiphae


Reality is sinking in, the skeptics are thinning out.

About the sarcasm, it was a trap for the skeptics. A honeypot of truth so to speak.

Unfortunately, the nectar ain't that sweet.

Global weirding it is too. Much more accurate than another other name so far.

All I know for certain is that for the past four years we've matched top snowfall records in Finland. This year we exceeded the maximum for the entire time Finns have been recording such things: 157 years. That seems like a long time in human terms, but in planetary terms it's not even a blink.

I wonder if we've even got a "normal" set on Earth. From my long years reading archeology and anthropology I'm more of the mind that we haven't got to that point yet. So the question is really "what are we trying to maintain?" Is it a weather pattern that is even in Earth's best interest? How would we know? Is it simply to maintain things to our maximal comfort and if so, who do we think we are in the scheme of things? And do we really think that we can control the Earth's climate in any case? We can't cure the common cold but we know what's best for the planet. lol

Originally posted by jimmyx
i answer that with this...if you have 100 people look up and say the sky is blue today, and you have 1 person say the sky is orange, then i guess you could say that there is still a debate going on that the sky is blue.

now you're being silly.
but its ok, being silly is more common in ats these days than an actual adult debate so who will notice.

reply to post by atlasastro


For the first time in Earth's history? You sure you want to stick with that? Today's activists...scientists...I meant scientists...really like to use that "in the last 400,000 years" number. But let's go back a bit, maybe before humans even existed?

"During the Middle Miocene (the time period approximately 14 to 20 million years ago), carbon dioxide levels were sustained at about 400 parts per million, which is about where we are today," Tripati said. "Globally, temperatures were 5 to 10 degrees Fahrenheit warmer, a huge amount."

Last Time Carbon Dioxide Levels Were This High: 15 Million Years Ago, Scientists Report

/TOA

reply to post by The Old American


LOL talk about shooting ones self in the foot

The term Middle Miocene disruption, alternatively the Middle Miocene extinction or Middle Miocene extinction peak, refers to a wave of extinctions of terrestrial and aquatic life forms that occurred around the middle of the Miocene Epoch, c. 14.8 to 14.5 million years ago, during the Langhian stage of the Miocene.