Satan Is Not A Real Being

Originally posted by Starchild23


Lucifer was never a physical being, but a concept. A trait. Our trait.

edit on CSaturdayam515102f02America/Chicago17 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)

Just like JC...

reply to post by BrokenCircles

you have not experienced things you call "fairy tails", thats why you are not competent.

Originally posted by BrokenCircles

This World would be a much better place to live, if so many people did not believe in fantastical fairy tales

What makes so many people believe in such fantastical fairy tales?

What makes so many people believe they've been abducted by aliens? Is it really the desires of the flesh that make people think they're being haunted and abducted to serve some greater purpose for themselves?

reply to post by Starchild23


Your post reminds me of an old french story.
I'll quote a line from it.

"My dear brothers, never forget, when you hear the progress of enlightenment vaunted, that the devil's best trick is to persuade you that he doesn't exist!"-Baudelaire, 1864

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by morningeagle

 

That's not what it sounds like here, based on what you say...

Job 1:6-12

6) Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7) And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8) And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9)Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

10) Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11) But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

12) And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

www.biblegateway.com...

Again, we are lost in translation...

"The Satan", meaning literally "the adversary", appears in the prose prologue of Job: he is not the devil, as he becomes in later Judeo-Christian works, but one of the celestial beings who stand before God in the heavenly court.[11] As a member of a divine council "the adversary" observes human activity with the purpose of searching out men's sins and acting as their accuser. "The adversary" occurs in the framing story alone—he is never clearly alluded to in the central poem. However, Abaddon and Sheol are mentioned throughout the central poem. Job does speak of an adversary on several occasions within the central poem, but it is doubtful that he is referring to "the Adversary" of the prose prologue. Source

"The appearance of “Satan” in virtually all English translations of the book of Job befuddles me since it is very clear that Satan was never in the book of Job to begin with! While almost every English translation of the book of Job will refer to “Satan” in the first couple chapters of the book, there is scholarly consensus that this is certainly not what the Hebrew original is referring to!" Source

People need to understand that these stories have been told down through the ages and have transferred to and from many different languages and certain terms and words are added and taken away from the original texts:

As Hebrew and Greek, the original languages of the Bible, like all languages, have some idioms and concepts not easily translated, there is in some cases an ongoing critical tension about whether it is better to give a word for word translation or to give a translation that gives a parallel idiom in the target language. Source

reply to post by morningeagle


Did you even read all of your sources? Here's a clip from within...

The only passage in the entire Hebrew Bible where satan may refer to “Satan” as the fallen leader of demonic forces is 1 Chronicles 21:1, where satan (significantly without the definite article) incites King David to take an ill-fated census. This passage is also an interpretive crux historiographically, since it parallels 2Sam 24:1 where Yahweh incited David to take the census. Evidently, the Chronicler had theological problems with Yahweh inciting the census and then punishing David for taking it, and therefore made the change in his text for theological reasons (alternatively, the Chronicler’s Hebrew text of 2Samuel may have already contained the change, since the evidence of 4QSam-a suggests the Chronicler may have had a different text).

While I still lean towards the traditional understanding of this passage as referring to “Satan,” I should note that most recent commentators have moved away from this understanding and have proposed a human adversary or an angelic adversary akin to Job and Zechariah. When we turn to the book of Job, then, we do not find the full-blown figure of Satan. Instead, we find a celestial being who is part of Yahweh’s divine council, i.e., one of the “sons of Elohim”, who functions in the book of Job as a heavenly adversary. More specifically, in the book of Job, the satan fills the role of a prosecuting attorney. In this respect, the NJPS translation as “the Adversary” is perhaps the best possible.

The development of “the satan” into “Satan,” i.e., the evil arch-enemy of God, seems to have occurred primarily after the Hebrew Bible, perhaps under the influence of Persian Zoroastrianism (although this is debated).

Whatever the influence, when we turn to Second Temple Jewish literature such as 1 Enoch or the DSS, we find a far more developed angelology/demonology. This is continued into the New Testament where you find a full-blown (albeit not systematic) angelology and demonology.

biblical-studies.ca...

Reply to post by Starchild23

So what you have basically done is personify a human characteristic, and claim that it manifested itself before human's existed and tried to overthrow God? I politely disagree. To me this seems like the other misconception and excuse many people use, "the devil made me do it". We have Freewill, and it is true we have a built-in desire to fulfill the wants of the flesh, and unseen forces do try to manipulate us to go against the will of God, but in the end we have the final say as to what choices we make. Which is the reason not many people want to acknowledge God exists, because on the day we are judged by the Source of Life we cannot lay blame on anyone for our wrongdoings. The rebellion a child has towards the parents as the same rebellion that goes against God. In a sense you're right, Lucifer does not exist in our personal space, but he does exist outside our realm of being. The church has done a good job at distorting the truth regarding God and Lucifer, which is why there's a gazillion opinions of God.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by BrokenCircles

This World would be a much better place to live, if so many people did not believe in fantastical fairy tales

What makes so many people believe in such fantastical fairy tales?

What makes so many people believe they've been abducted by aliens? Is it really the desires of the flesh that make people think they're being haunted and abducted to serve some greater purpose for themselves?

People can't accept death. They want to be with their dead loved ones again. They want to know bad people are judged and don't get away with it. They want to know this isn't just a brutal world where everything eats everything else, and 'Gods', who war for our favor, love us and consider us special. Some humans have even wanted to believe they could take all their crap they accumulated in life with them! Even their pets and animals!

Humans beings, even athiests, are desperate to believe we are special.

Our imagination is more limited than we believe... all of gods, monsters, aliens...everything is modeled around our natural environment and ourselves.

There will always be people who create BS to explain the unknown.

reply to post by Balkan


I'm not sure I fully understand what you're saying.

Can you elaborate some more?

Originally posted by Sinny
Thank you!!

I've been trying to tell everyone this!!

Satan does not exist. Period.

Neither does "God". Just to clarify.

edit on 17-3-2012 by Sinny because: (no reason given)

I never said the being we call "God" doesn't exist. I'll admit I think it is entirely different from the traditional definitions...how can humans define something that is beyond human comprehension? But in truth, I think there is a consciousness triggering the course of nature.

I'd just talked to a friend about how there is no destiny, only causality. He tried to pull some equations on the number of choices in a day, and I said that there IS a consciousness to it. However, the Consciousness is embedded in a fabric that grew of its own nature.

That is the closest you can come to truly defining God. And it doesn't even touch the truth.

reply to post by Starchild23


satan is a spiritual entity...who plans is to lead humans astray....he does this merely by implanting wicked suggestions into peoples minds. The person will just think that he is acting out of his own reason and logic.... without even suspecting that the original thought of sin originated from satan.

Lucifer, Satan, Mara..they are all the same thing. Lords of our own illusions and ego that we all must overcome on a daily basis if we are to maintain balance in this world of cause and effect.

reply to post by Deetermined

Originally posted by Deetermined

What makes so many people believe in such fantastical fairy tales?

Gullibility, coupled along with the ultimate fear of considering the actual true reality of death: [color=DBE3B1]Non-Existence.

Originally posted by Deetermined

What makes so many people believe they've been abducted by aliens? Is it really the desires of the flesh that make people think they're being haunted and abducted to serve some greater purpose for themselves?

Currently, what is the average price for a dozen eggs, in '[color=DBE3B1]Trinidad and Tobago'?




reply to post by icepack

Originally posted by icepack

you have not experienced things you call "[color=DBE3B1]fairy tails", thats why you are not competent.

That's not what I called it. I said "[color=DBE3B1]Fairy TALES".

Regardless though, I see that you're still pointing that finger. You know absolutely nothing about who I am, or the experiences that I have had throughout my life, leading up til right now.

It seems that you are basically saying that I am incompetent, because when I screw up, I blame no one but myself. So if I was to blame El Diablo for my own mistakes, then I would be a competent human being?

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Starchild23

 

satan is a spiritual entity...who plans is to lead humans astray....he does this merely by implanting wicked suggestions into peoples minds. The person will just think that he is acting out of his own reason and logic.... without even suspecting that the original thought of sin originated from satan.

Satan was never apart from man. Satan was born as soon as people decided that desires of the flesh were a bad thing and must be set apart from man. But in truth, it is merely a concept defining a quality within all of us.

You are welcome to your views, but this makes more sense than an invisible demon giving me bad ideas for the pure joy of it.

reply to post by BrokenCircles


I don't believe in non-existence after death. None of us know anywhere near enough to say for certain what comes after death; however, I follow Newton's law that nothing can be created nor destroyed, so I believe that the energy within us goes somewhere to be renewed, wiped clean, and recycled after death.

Our physical body will decompose into less compact pieces of energy, which will feed the earth, turn into boxed compost, or sit in an urn. The energy that we call our soul, however, will go to another plane.

These bodies are just vibrational vehicles used to learn. Death of the body is not death of the soul.

Originally posted by BrokenCircles
reply to post by Starchild23

 

In other words: [color=42F2FF]Lucifer is your scapegoat.

What you could do, is man up and take responsibility for your own actions.

We are not talking about me. I blame "Lucifer" for nothing.

I would be sorely amiss if I did not adhere to my own beliefs.

reply to post by Balkan


This is true. People want to believe there is more to life than just survival. Throughout history, mankind has shown that if nothing but survival has meaning, then everyone will be killed. No one will care what happens as long as they survive, unless everyone is helping each other live.

And that's essentially what our society is about. Everyone must conform for the stability and security of the nation. As long as we are taken care of, we decide what we can spare to help others, always putting ourselves first before we check to see who else we can help.

This is what survival is about. The wolves are geniuses compared to us in this regard.

But if you have a God who gives you meaning, who makes it about more than just surviving and random births and impartial deaths, then why would you give that up?

People will more often cling to their delusions of peace and happiness, than cold harsh reality. It keeps tham sane, and that's all that matters to them. They value the ability to view life in a positive, purposeful light more than anything else.

reply to post by BrokenCircles

That's not what I called it. I said "Fairy TALES". Regardless though, I see that you're still pointing that finger. You know absolutely nothing about who I am, or the experiences that I have had throughout my life, leading up til right now. It seems that you are basically saying that I am incompetent, because when I screw up, I blame no one but myself. So if I was to blame El Diablo for my own mistakes, then I would be a competent human being?

you knew what i meant. thats cheap to use a writing error to give more power to your arguments.
what i was saying: you do not know, that non-human beings influence human lives, so your judgement is wrong. it will not get right by repeating a trained atheistic form of arguing.

Even fairy tales have truth in them. In this case, fairy tales were a way to explain advanced science and philosophical concepts to a people who were looking for hope, not science.

The Bible is full of riddles and metaphors, such as "Lucifer", but people continue to take it literally.

reply to post by Starchild23

You are welcome to your views, but this makes more sense than an invisible demon giving me bad ideas for the pure joy of it.

The reason the "invisible demon" gives you bad ideas is because he hates mankind...and has sworn to take many down with him.