Magic, when the art will become a science.

I know little or nothing about the subject but magic has always intrigued, fascinated and captivated me whenever I did see a movie with persons practising that part of nature.

The first time I started to believe that such secretive practices are real was when I read about the warning against it in the bible. I do not remember reading specific warnings against magic in general but the fact that there was a warning about it was enough for me to understand that the subject should not be taken lightly.

Over the years I have seen threads on the subject passing through but could I never grasp the nuts and bolts of it. With that I mean, how should this occult practice scientific be understood.

I am aware that this thread can easily be trolled and debunked by people who claim that magic is BS and can not be proven by science. Let me explain to these people that this thread is not for them. In this thread magic does exist. If you become frustrated by the fact that you know for certain that magic does not exist start your own thread about just that.

Let me continue with my thoughts. Now, with the new developments in physics it will become maybe possible to explain the workings of magic. I mean, it will not be a question of believing but will it become a fact. The fact that magic works makes it a part of the workings of the universe..of Gods creation, a part of physics yet to be understood. Like reality dictates the laws of newton so will in some way the workings of magic be explainable and understood.

Exotic particles that inter-act instantly if removed a billion light-years from eachother does sound like magic to me. Calculations and communication with other dimensions will maybe be possible because of new understandings of nature. We, science, is on the verge of discovering the Theory Of Everything. This theory should also make us to be able to understand and comprehend the science that ancient cultures all over the world have been practising with only the knowledge and believing that it works.

Once the TOE (theory of everything) has been discovered it will take time for sciencist to come up with the nuts and bolts of magic but if I am correct there will not be much magical about magic.

I know that some of us here on ATS know a lot about Wicca, Witchcraft and that sort of thing and I am curious about how they place this art in nature. The way I see it will the art of magic will become a science, like alchemy became chemistry and astrology became astronomy.

Not that I care much for the drug-addicted, debauched old fool, but Aleister Crowley defined Magic(k) as, "the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will."

So "magic" by that definition includes your everyday, ordinary positive thinking, as well as ritualized forms.

Of course there's more than we know about the world we live in, and I believe we are surrounded by non-human forms of consciousness.

In addition; Science and Alchemy were pretty much the same thing at one time. Not to mention that Philosophy is the Father of Science.

As Science expands it's own mind and rediscovers it's roots in philosophy; that's when the real breakthroughs will probably happen.

However, I kind of doubt that mankind will ever unlock all the secrets of the universe...we are so small and it is so big...and maybe that's not why we are here anyway.

Peace.

Originally posted by The GUT
As Science expands it's own mind and rediscovers it's roots in philosophy; that's when the real breakthroughs will probably happen.

I agree. I think it's only a matter of time before science explains the workings of majic the way they explain how everything else works. But you have to remember that many scientists make their living off of grant money so you always have to keep in mind who's paying them and take that into consideration when looking at what scientists prove.

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reply to post by zatara

Let me explain to these people that this thread is not for them. In this thread magic does exist. If you become frustrated by the fact that you know for certain that magic does not exist start your own thread about just that.

Just as magic exists to rural villages that encounter normal, technologically advanced people for the first time. Some of these villagers think modern day people are Gods.

Good explanation in itself of what magic is.

Talking about "magic" is like talking about "shoes". What kind of magic or majick or magick are you speaking?

Harry Potter style?

The magic is real, it's what you do with it that matters.
I believe the original families were given/shown and what we see today is the result of their manipulation of it while keeping from everyone else, making majority of mankind, so confused they can't see it right in front of their noses.
Once you realise this, they have no power over you and yours and yes it's a faith thing too.

So I'm content to sit back and watch what the next couple of years brings.
When you constantly unbalance something that was supposed to be equal, it will right itself in the most inconvenient way, for those that did the wrong thing with it, that is.

The answer is inside all of us equally, including the brothers and sisters we have yet to meet, they're just waiting for us to catch up

Originally posted by AussieAmandaC
The magic is real, it's what you do with it that matters.
I believe the original families were given/shown and what we see today is the result of their manipulation of it while keeping from everyone else, making majority of mankind, so confused they can't see it right in front of their noses.
Once you realise this, they have no power over you and yours and yes it's a faith thing too.

So I'm content to sit back and watch what the next couple of years brings.
When you constantly unbalance something that was supposed to be equal, it will right itself in the most inconvenient way, for those that did the wrong thing with it, that is.

The answer is inside all of us equally, including the brothers and sisters we have yet to meet, they're just waiting for us to catch up

Aussie, your post is pretty and all, like wedding cakes thrown in the dumpster.

Still trash though. The hopes and dreams of a child. No matter, you are of and can be of your opinion, no matter!

Originally posted by AussieAmandaC
The magic is real, it's what you do with it that matters.
I believe the original families were given/shown and what we see today is the result of their manipulation of it while keeping from everyone else, making majority of mankind, so confused they can't see it right in front of their noses.
Once you realise this, they have no power over you and yours and yes it's a faith thing too.

So I'm content to sit back and watch what the next couple of years brings.
When you constantly unbalance something that was supposed to be equal, it will right itself in the most inconvenient way, for those that did the wrong thing with it, that is.

The answer is inside all of us equally, including the brothers and sisters we have yet to meet, they're just waiting for us to catch up

What you say is about what I think that one property of magic is. All kinds of ancient wisdom like Jin and Yang is probably based on the experiance that the universe works that way. If you change one side an other side comes in motion to restore the balance. This principle does belong in the world of "magic" of how I understand it too.

The rituals performed by secret groups or individuals, the energy released by focus and concentration can bring certain changes about but there will be always a price to be paid for restoring the equilibrium. On the other hand do I also believe that people practising this knowledge also know about the "sideffects". They understand that succes requiers precision and qaution just because of these balances in nature. Only fools meddle with such knowledge without really knowing what they are doing.

I think good example of people that do know what they are doing while performing rituals are shamans. The shaman enters supernatural realms or dimensions to obtain solutions to problems afflicting the community. These people have the knowledge how to leave these realms without causing not to much disturbance in that world and their own.

Originally posted by WillowToadie
Talking about "magic" is like talking about "shoes". What kind of magic or majick or magick are you speaking?

Harry Potter style?

I don't know..can you explain to me the difference between the three....or are there more variants?

True Magick is the Force that surrounds and is in everything there is. All use it, whether they know it or not. It cannot be used for personal gain of any kind whatsoever. Used wisely, it can help people, and heal the sick.

Originally posted by zatara
I know little or nothing about the subject but magic has always intrigued, fascinated and captivated me whenever I did see a movie with persons practising that part of nature.

I have seen something, that not many have. I used to be in the place you are, then it happened. Magic happened. So that I can study every detail but I cannot do magic, for sure I would like to.

Originally posted by autowrench
It cannot be used for personal gain of any kind whatsoever. Used wisely, it can help people.

Why can't it be used for personal gain? Magicians see themselves in 'people.' 'People,' are 1.

Originally posted by zatara

Originally posted by WillowToadie
Talking about "magic" is like talking about "shoes". What kind of magic or majick or magick are you speaking?

Harry Potter style?

I don't know..can you explain to me the difference between the three....or are there more variants?

All kinds of variants, wiccan, Potter, Voldemort...

Originally posted by WillowToadie

Originally posted by zatara

Originally posted by WillowToadie
Talking about "magic" is like talking about "shoes". What kind of magic or majick or magick are you speaking?

Harry Potter style?

I don't know..can you explain to me the difference between the three....or are there more variants?

All kinds of variants, wiccan, Potter, Voldemort...

I'm not sure if you're making fun... but Magic is real. I've actually done a spell and it scared the f*&k outta me. Then my entire reality changed... slightly.

The principles of magic (spell it as you please) have long been fully understood.

They are two:

1. Like breeds like
   
   
2. Association is forever

The trouble is, they are false principles. The trouble with magic, as Aleister Crowley's biographer pointed out long ago, is that it doesn't work. Magic is neither an art nor a science; it's just play-acting.

Originally posted by Mizzijr

Originally posted by WillowToadie

Originally posted by zatara

Originally posted by WillowToadie
Talking about "magic" is like talking about "shoes". What kind of magic or majick or magick are you speaking?

Harry Potter style?

I don't know..can you explain to me the difference between the three....or are there more variants?

All kinds of variants, wiccan, Potter, Voldemort...

I'm not sure if you're making fun... but Magic is real. I've actually done a spell and it scared the f*&k outta me. Then my entire reality changed... slightly.

I wonder about my eternity and I'm playing with all kinds of stuff,,,awesome colors and staring at the sun every day for weeks. sleeping on my back to better induce lucid dreaming...looking for my guides and trying to ascend and evolve at a quick rate.

I think I'm having a problem by making mountains out of molehills when I should be more hush-hush about it, since speaking of things diminishes their power in the subjective world...but I exist mostly to help otherz

Want a good book on Magic? pick up Julius Evola's "introduction to magic".

reply to post by Astyanax


Than you're a total ignoramus without any EXPERIENCE with magic

I think your pathological skepticism might be preventing you from understanding that without intention - the proper type - any positivist approach towards the efficacy of magic will be undermined by a desire to 'test' it on experimentalist grounds.

Magic, or rather, mysticism/metaphysics, does not work the same as science. Science works a posteriori, while magic, a priori.

The only similarity between the two is the fact of causality. Certain causes have certain determined effects; this makes magic, undoubtedly, a science - to debate that only shows how thoroughly ignorant you are of the subject.

Magic became a science the day ROBert Bacon
( the LAST GREAT ALCHEMIST as he is often billed )
developed gun powder

incidentally:
thats the day he figured out how to turn lead into gold
BY MAKING IT INTO BULLETS!!!

bacon is called bacon because of the nitrates ( a principle in the explosives Bacon invented)
(well stole from the chinese)
ROBBED is for AT GUNPOINT from his first name
the term "to Bake" from Bacon because he used a RECIPE

funny how language works innit?

Ps
funny thing about INTENT
the INTENT to educate through insult seldom achieves its end
example oft works better

might I suggest an examination of the IChing and why it is the oldest book in the world?
or
perhaps a fable
of how righting a good little bar tune
maketh beer magically appear
on the table?

PS
cool about recipies
you can use them to see the future
"IN two hours there will be CAKE in this oven!"
and if you were thorough in your adhrance to the recipy there will be.

Chemical equation like the one used to make Gunpowder work the same:
a chemist knows exactly what will happen next

Originally posted by WillowToadie

All kinds of variants, wiccan, Potter, Voldemort...

Originally posted by Mizzijr

I'm not sure if you're making fun... but Magic is real. I've actually done a spell and it scared the f*&k outta me. Then my entire reality changed... slightly.

Thank you for your post.

Was you "majic" "majic", "magick" or "majick"?