Cloud Tops Dropping Closer to Earth, NASA Satellite Finds

reply to post by luxordelphi


........totally factually incorrect:

Cirrus aviaticus are a cirrius problem. They cause drought conditions which mean more geoengineering with toxic silver iodide and assorted other toxic cocktails in order to make it rain. We used to have a natural weather system. Then atomic bombs got exploded in the upper atmosphere and so it began...the days of geoengineering the sky.

Contrails do NOT "cause drought conditions". You are just making crap up, now. Just as you did with the non-scientific claim that it was "nicer" when airliners were grounded temporarily.

And, "atomic bombs got exploded in the upper atmosphere"? Seriously? (Do you even understand how long ago that was??)

Total rubbish.....and, BTW, there are plenty of days when contrails just don't form, at all...even all over the entire USA.

This is validated in satellite photos.


Oh, and speaking of "pseudo-science"? That is more your forte'.......

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
Alright the guessing game..I love games..

You dont say...really? Well that would explain your posting of
a HOAX.

[CONFIRMED] Iranian nuclear facilities attacked by UN spectre gun ships!!!,
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I see a lack of credibility on your part.

Originally posted by ProudBird
Oh, and speaking of "pseudo-science"? That is more your forte'.......

Talking to yourself again I see.

And speaking on Con men trails....

Have you seen these depictions? I would think these rather to be

"Chemtrails".




Image taken from about 4:20 into the video.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by proob4
No hoax. It makes clouds.I take it you are gonna be the shill here?

Proud Bird is no shill... he is just desperately trying to hold on to the illusion that airline pilots are not involved in this mess...

He may be right... I mean pilots may have no idea what is being mixed into that fuel

Originally posted by Uncinus
Also, consider how much of a "cloud" that smoke machine would leave if it were moving at 500 mph. Somewhat thin, I think.

You guys need to come to terms with a new phrase "Global Dimming" I would recommend you google that

What is "global dimming” and how can it counter global warming? See how this critical phenomenon was discovered.

www.pbs.org...


Contrails, the man-made clouds left in the wake of jet aircraft, may alter climate, particularly regionally,

Well, I might now. After a lifetime of enjoying contrails, it came as a surprise to me to learn recently that something so ephemeral may not be a harmless by-product of the jet age but may in fact impact the climate. This is of particular concern in well-traveled air corridors, where contrails by the hundreds can spread into man-made cirrus clouds that can both block sunlight from reaching the Earth and trap radiated heat from escaping to space. Whether contrails cause a net cooling or a net warming, even whether their effect is something to worry about within the greater general concern about climate change, remains unclear. But with air traffic expected to double or even triple by 2050, leading contrail researchers say the influence of these artificial clouds cannot be ignored.

www.pbs.org...#


PBS NOVA Mainstream media

Global dimming has been on a consistent downward trend since the late 1980s

www.sciencemag.org...

Variations in solar radiation incident at Earth's surface profoundly affect the human and terrestrial environment. A decline in solar radiation at land surfaces has become apparent in many observational records up to 1990, a phenomenon known as global dimming. Newly available surface observations from 1990 to the present, primarily from the Northern Hemisphere, show that the dimming did not persist into the 1990s. Instead, a widespread brightening has been observed since the late 1980s.

Originally posted by burntheships

Have you seen these depictions? I would think these rather to be

"Chemtrails".

Sure, you could call them that, but like your video says, they have not been used yet.

Incidentally, they would be unlikely to produce trails that looked anything like a contrail. They would be far less substantial, and quickly dissipate. Contrails can last for much longer, and spread out to cover the sky.

Originally posted by Uncinus
Sure, you could call them that

That would be exactly what they would be, "chemtrails".

But you really cant prove what you asserted, how would you know?
Have you ever tested the chemtrails for your self?

Your probably just thinking that some scientist has "modeled" this
and your thinking about that.

This seems to indicate otherwise, its in place now and it may be happening...
Its not just pie in the sky, fantasy.

Modification of cirrus clouds to reduce global warming

Fortunately the coldest cirrus have the highest ice supersaturation due to the dominance of homogeneous freezing nucleation. Seeding such cirrus with very efficient heterogeneous ice nuclei should produce larger ice crystals due to vapor competition effects, thus increasing OLR and surface cooling. Preliminary estimates of this global net cloud forcing are more negative than −2.8 W m−2 and could neutralize the radiative forcing due to a CO2 doubling (3.7 W m−2). A potential delivery mechanism for the seeding material is already in place: the airline industry. iopscience.iop.org...

reply to post by Uncinus


I don't believe Zorgon is speaking about natural global dimming. Nice try though.

You are correct that natural global dimming has been declining and we are seeing a brightening of the atmosphere, which means that "they" are looking into artificially dimming the globe -- hence what Zorgon was referring to.

www.berkeleydailyplanet.com...

Did you know that the U.S. Congress has been holding hearings on solar radiation management, (SRM), a geoengineering technique which intends to mitigate global warming by blocking sunlight from the earth? Geoengineering (as laid out by the Council on Foreign Relations in their “Unilateral Geoengineering” workshop May 2008) is defined as “Any of a variety of strategies, such as injecting light-reflecting particles into the stratosphere, that might be used to modify the Earth’s atmosphere-ocean system in an attempt to slow or reverse global warming.” Yeah, things didn’t go well in Copenhagen, but not to worry, atmospheric scientists to the rescue. House testimonies of scientists Ken Caldiera, John Shepard, James Fleming, Alan Robock, and Co-director of the American Enterprise Institutes’ Geoengineering Project Lee Lane can be found at: http/science.house.gov/Publications/hearings_markups_details.aspx?NewsID=2668.

The scientists testimonies lay out possible “future” geoengineering techniques including the SRM Aerosol Program. This is described as being administered by military jets, high in the atmosphere, laying down particles of sulfur dioxide which effectively haze the sky and dim the sun. Other candidates include hydrogen sulfide and soot. “A broad range of materials might be used as stratospheric scatterers,” says Lee Lane. ”Potential types of particles for injection include sulfur dioxide, aluminum-oxide dust, or even designer self-levitating aerosols” (CFR Unilateral Geoengineering workshop, May 2008).

Originally posted by Afterthought
You are correct that natural global dimming has been declining and we are seeing a brightening of the atmosphere, which means that "they" are looking into artificially dimming the globe -- hence what Zorgon was referring to.

"They" are looking into solar radiation management. But nobody has done it yet.

reply to post by burntheships


Well genius that was a hacked thread by a member that was mad at a reply I gave him. You may want to get your facts straight before you make a fool out of your replies to me.Sorry you don't have all the facts correct.In fact I will U2u the facts if you are interested.....

reply to post by Uncinus

But nobody has done it yet.

I have yet to see any concrete evidence that they haven't.
I have my eyes to the sky and all the other evidence that I have read and posted to cause me to believe otherwise.

The last I heard, "they" were trying to determine if cloud seeding was going to be declared geoengineering or not. At this point, I just think they're trying to figure out what words are going to be used and what baskets to put them in so they don't stumble and bumble during the press conference when it's all brought out into the open. Let's just keep in mind that their biggest concern is that they want to appear as though they know what they're talking about. All they care about is themselves and their stake holders. Money, money, money.

Originally posted by Afterthought
I have yet to see any concrete evidence that they haven't.
I have my eyes to the sky and all the other evidence that I have read and posted to cause me to believe otherwise.

Have you seen any trail in the sky that does not look like a contrail of some kind?

reply to post by ProudBird

Contrails do NOT "cause drought conditions". You are just making crap up, now. Just as you did with the non-scientific claim that it was "nicer" when airliners were grounded temporarily.

Unbelievable. Here I am providing links, as usual, while you, as usual, just spout off. Providing nothing but opinions. Frustratingly for you, the jet emissions arena has been muddied by claims of how water vapory and wonderful these emissions are and by claims of how grid patterns in the sky have always existed. I foresee a rift.

www.astro.umass.edu...

Aviation makes a significant contribution to anthropogenic climate forcing. The impacts arise from emissions of greenhouse gases, aerosols and nitrogen oxides, and from changes in cloudiness in the upper troposphere.

Here we use a global climate model that captures the whole life cycle of these man-made clouds to simulate their global coverage, as well as the changes in natural cloudiness that they induce.

Contrail cirrus change the water budget of the surrounding atmosphere and therefore can have an impact on natural clouds. Water vapour that is deposited on ice particles within contrail cirrus is not available for formation and deposition in natural cirrus any longer. Therefore, contrail cirrus have the potential to modulate the optical properties of natural clouds, delaying their onset and replacing them, which may partly offset the direct climate impact of contrail cirrus. Virtually nothing is known about those cloud and humidity changes.

Locally, the decrease in natural-cirrus coverage (over Europe and the US) amounts to up to 10% of the natural-cirrus coverage or up to 20% of the contrail-cirrus coverage. Furthermore, in the main contrail-cirrus areas of North America and Europe, the optical depth of natural clouds is significantly (at the 95% significance level) reduced by up to 10% owing to the presence of contrail cirrus.

www.contrails.nl...

Aviation-smog is responsible for more clouds, rain, drought, bigger hailstones (megacryometeors), a stronger greenhouse effect (global warming), and, maybe, even gives extra power to hurricanes.

www.docweather.com...

In image 11 a haunting angelic dance of late in the day virga tell of dry weather ahead even though their appearance delights the eye and stimulates the imagination. This type of cloud formation is the result of a busy day of aircraft contrails being laid down in the sky at the border of the tropopause the most sensitive boundary for weather in the atmosphere. The question regarding the influence of contrails on drought patterns is a deep one involving many variables. With contrails, the wonderful predictive images of the high ice clouds as harbingers of storms weaves into the more darkly etched human concerns of an economy based on fossil fuels.

getpain.blogspot.com...

www.pa.op.dlr.de... "The researchers note that contrail cirrus also reduce natural cirrus coverage"

www.pa.op.dlr.de... "Contrail-cirrus clusters build up regionally and may prevent natural clouds from forming"

www.nature.com... "We also find that contrail cirrus cause a significant decrease in natural cloudiness"

www.theglobeandmail.com... 61584/

But a key difference is that carbon dioxide lingers for decades while warming from contrails quickly ends if flights are grounded, such as after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States, or in Europe after last year’s Icelandic volcano eruption.

“You can get rid of contrails very quickly. You can’t get rid of carbon dioxide quickly,” lead author Ulrike Burkhardt at DLR told Reuters.

The main climate effect of white lines and related cirrus clouds is to trap heat radiating back from the Earth’s surface. They also have a smaller counter-effect by slightly dimming sunlight and so slowing warming. Contrails are especially dense over parts of Europe and the eastern United States

The UN panel of climate scientists has estimated that fuel burned at altitude is roughly twice as damaging for the climate as when used at ground level. Dr. Boucher said that the study might slightly raise that estimate, adding to potential costs.

reply to post by luxordelphi

Cirrus clouds do not produce precipitation which reaches the surface.
Not one of those links states any connection between contrails (or cirrus) and drought.

reply to post by Phage


Contrail cirrus are not harbingers of systems like natural cirrus. Contrail cirrus - cirrus aviaticus - inhibit natural cloud formation. They supplant natural clouds. This is clear from the varied sources. Fewer clouds = less rain.

reply to post by luxordelphi

Contrails are indicators of approaching weather systems in exactly the same way natural cirrus is and for the same reasons.
cf.synergylearning.org...


It is not clear from the sources you reference that cirrus, natural or otherwise, inhibits low level cloud development so as to produce drought conditions.

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by burntheships

 

Well genius ....

Now your talking my language....
Ok then, I apologize for that and thanks for the u2u.

reply to post by Phage

Contrails are indicators of approaching weather systems in exactly the same way natural cirrus is and for the same reasons.

Cirrus aviaticus are artificial clouds, artificially formed, and possible in venues not conducive to natural cirrus.

www.nature.com...

Contrail cirrus form and persist in air that is ice-saturated, whereas natural cirrus often require high ice supersaturation to form.

This implies that in a substantial fraction of the upper troposphere, contrail cirrus can persist in supersaturated air that is cloud-free, thus increasing high cloud coverage.

It is not clear from the sources you reference that cirrus, natural or otherwise, inhibits low level cloud development so as to produce drought conditions.

Cirrus aviaticus form where natural clouds fail to go. Forming, they use up the available moisture that could have allowed the eventual formation of natural clouds. Persisting, they spread using up more and more moisture.

reply to post by luxordelphi

Cirrus aviaticus form where natural clouds fail to go. Forming, they use up the available moisture that could have allowed the eventual formation of natural clouds. Persisting, they spread using up more and more moisture.

Clouds which produce precipitation form at much lower altitudes than contrails and cirrus clouds. The moisture which produces them also originates at much lower levels. A reduction of ambient water vapor levels at 30,000 feet has no effect on water vapor levels at 3,000 feet.