Let's Cut to the Chase - Iran Must Be Stopped

reply to post by Soshh


the only one pretending and going off his INTERPRETAION of the situation is you. links, facts, sources???

none, ok....then please go play some xbox or something.

Originally posted by curedby432
So what are your viewpoints on Israel no obliging to the treaty? What about Israel not declaring their Nuclear sites?

Israel is not violating any UN agreements / International laws. They are not a signatory to the NPT, which means they are not subject to the rules that member nations are required to follow. Iran can easily withdraw from the treaties as well and do their own thing without violating the treaties. North Korea did that, and Pakistan and India are the same as Israel - non signatories.

Holding Israel to a treaty they never signed is like the International Criminal Court wanting to prosecute Khaddafi. By that entity issuing arrest warrants for his regime, they violated their own rules as Libya was not a member of the ICC.

The very dangerous legal precedent they established, the concept of universal jurisdiction, is a disaster waiting to happen.

With that said im all for banning any and all nuclear weapons. I dont think they are needed and the harm they can cause far outweighs the minuscule return. With that being said I come to that position as a US citizen, so my experience and views are based on the US military added into our location on the globe, and having friendly allied nations to our north and south.

For Israel, there view is completely different because of the drive by some countries / entities in the past up to now. When there are countries who refuse to acknowledge your existence, chances are conflict is not far away.

As far as Iran goes, I dont think they should have nukes because they are signatories to the treaty. If Iran were to withdraw from those treaties, then it is what it is and Iran can do what they want.

Originally posted by curedby432
Not attacking you just trying to see if you see it both ways or in only the light that the propaganda wants you to see it.

No your cool.. As I said its difficult to get context / tone etc in typed format.

The IAEA Report on Iran is based on Fake Intelligence. IAEA "Soviet Nuclear Scientist" Never Worked on Weapons

The report of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) published by a Washington think tank Tuesday repeated the sensational claim previously reported by news media all over the world that a former Soviet nuclear weapons scientist had helped Iran construct a detonation system that could be used for a nuclear weapon.

But it turns out that the foreign expert, who is not named in the IAEA report but was identified in news reports as Vyacheslav Danilenko, is not a nuclear weapons scientist but one of the top specialists in the world in the production of nanodiamonds by explosives.

www.globalresearch.ca...

here is that proof you spoke of.

Originally posted by casenately
reply to post by Soshh

 

the only one pretending and going off his INTERPRETAION of the situation is you. links, facts, sources???

"Any plan that seeks to divide Palestine is totally rejected," the Leader noted.

He said that the two-state solution under the cover of giving the Palestinian state a UN membership is aimed at nothing but "complying with Zionists' demand for the recognition of a Zionist government on Palestinian land".

"That means spoiling the rights of the Palestinian nation and ignoring the historical rights of the Palestinian refugees and even threatening the rights of the Palestinians who live in the 1948 territories," the Leader warned.

"And that means the existence of the cancerous tumor (Israel) and a permanent threat to the Islamic Ummah (community), the regional nations in particular," Ayatollah Khamenei stated.

english.farsnews.com...

reply to post by Soshh


so what, a two state solution....that was offered when, by whom, to whom?

you do realize the ME issue is older than you right? and that there have been hundreds of proposals and talks by many.

is the Xbox broken?

Originally posted by casenately
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

20 % is fine for the research reactor or the navy they have.

REsearch / medical reactors require 12% - 19% enrichment, and the higher end is for the more advanced studies.

20% enrichment places the uranium into the category of Highly Enriched. HEU is whats required for a nuclear weapon, and 20% is the bottom base line to achieve a nuclear explosion.

Iran has no need for uranium at those levels since they have no infrastructure that requires it. Its right up there with Iranian plant IR040, which is a heavy water reactor. Iran has no need for that since the current LWR are more efficient and safer and produce similar if not more energy.

What the Heavy water reactor does produce that LWR / research reactors dont is Plutonium. The plant produces 20-25 lbs of plutonium a year, or enough for 2 bombs.

reply to post by casenately


It resolves the issue of the Soviet / Russian scientist claim. It does not disprove all of the other facts, many of which come directly from Iran.

reply to post by Xcathdra


what facts?

how are they incriminating and lead us to believe they have violated anything?

Looks like just one way to settle things---Revelation Style----have three counties, with nukes, all light up Israel, leaving only 144,000 living.

So, the Bible Prophicy comes to pass.


Now, will they (those extremists here wanting to Nuke Iran) want to blow up every Christian in America and every Christian Church for being a Revelation believer?

Sounds like this thread's extremists hate even the predictions of the Christ and his followers. imho

After all, the Bible Revelation tells much the same as the Iran Mullah.

reply to post by Xcathdra


20% is used on naval reactors for subs and ships.

maybe they want it for that purpose, or the research reactor.

Research reactors are simpler than power reactors and operate at lower temperatures. They need far less fuel, and far less fission products build up as the fuel is used. On the other hand, their fuel requires more highly enriched uranium, typically up to 20% U-235,

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by casenately
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

what facts?

how are they incriminating and lead us to believe they have violated anything?

Now see this is what im talking about.. We have been discussing these "Facts" since the op created the thread.
Now we have reached the round robbin lets keep asking the same question over and over.

One last time so ty and pay attention -
Iran is a member of the IAEA
Iran is a member of the NPT

Because of that, Iran has accepted the requirements set forth by both the IAEA / NPT.

Those requirements have been posted in this thread and 2 others now. I would suggest you read up on them, and follow the links to the UN homepage for both and read all of the info. You guys, for some reason, keeping taking your eye of the ball and forgetting what we are talking about.

By failing to follow the guidelines / requirements of the IAEA / NPT, which Iran accepted in their complete and total entirety the moment they signed on to the treaty / joined the IAEA.

Iran has performed actions with their nuclear program that have violated the NPT / IAEA requirements / guidelines.

Why is the topic revolving around nuclear weapons?
The areas of the treaty Iran is in violation of deal specifically with dual purpose / military aspects. The IAEA, per the agreement Iran signed, is allowed to inspect sites that are declared as being part of a civilian nuke program as well as exercise oversight to ensure the resources are not going towards military application.

It is absolutely possible Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program. The problem though is verification. The agreement places verification of programs via inspectors and site visits, access to key personnel involved in the program as well as access to documents.

Iran is blocking those actions, even though they are required to comply. Iran is blocking the verification that their program is solely civilian in nature.

reply to post by MagnumOpus


I don't think they want anything but for us to leave them alone and get the hell out of their countries and of their business. They could care less what we are believing over here or not.

www.youtube.com...

This is a video posted in another thread I read this morning, but it seems relevant in this conversation in terms of giving some perceptive of what some of the TRUE motives might be for "amping" up the propaganda to justify going to war against Iran might be?

It's about a 60min. documentary, but well worth watching....very disturbing, but also insightful....

Interested to hear others thoughts on this......

Originally posted by casenately
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

20% is used on naval reactors for subs and ships.

maybe they want it for that purpose, or the research reactor.

Research reactors are simpler than power reactors and operate at lower temperatures. They need far less fuel, and far less fission products build up as the fuel is used. On the other hand, their fuel requires more highly enriched uranium, typically up to 20% U-235,

en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 25-2-2012 by casenately because: (no reason given)

2 problems with that -

1 - Iran doe not have any nuclear powered naval vessels...
2 - Iran cannot divert resources from their civilian nuclear program to military application.

The navy is a military application.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by casenately

 

It resolves the issue of the Soviet / Russian scientist claim. It does not disprove all of the other facts, many of which come directly from Iran.

Speaking of facts

U.S. Agencies See No Move by Iran to Build a Bomb

www.nytimes.com...

Originally posted by casenately
reply to post by Soshh

 

so what, a two state solution....that was offered when, by whom, to whom?

you do realize the ME issue is older than you right? and that there have been hundreds of proposals and talks by many.

Iran rejects the two state solution; i.e. the concept that Israel and a Palestinian state could coexist. In future, please use a search engine to address your moronic queries instead of directing them at me.

is the Xbox broken?

I don't have one. If I did, I know where I would put it.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

It is absolutely possible Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program. The problem though is verification.

They don't have one, didnt have one since 2003

U.S. Agencies See No Move by Iran to Build a Bomb

www.nytimes.com...


by the way I am a very patient person...

reply to post by casenately

Hamas Hezbollah and Iran.....3 separate entities.

Both Hamas and Fatah are predominately Sunni Muslim, whereas Hezbollah has its roots in the Shia denomination of Islam

they are VERY different.

As noted 45 pages ago, the Iranian ‘Supreme Leader’ himself has made it totally clear that Iran will help ANY NATION OR GROUP that confronts the “cancer” Israel. They all have the same goal…

I saw that you tried to play semantics with his words before. The bottom line is that the Supreme Leader admits to funding these groups and ANY willing to attack Israel. Last time I checked, the rockets coming out of Gaza have always been aimed at CIVILIAN Israelis not the Israeli government.

reply to post by Soshh


yes that is ONE proposal. There have been hundreds over the years....bravo you have single handedly solved all our troubles...


I am glad you know what google is. Now see if you can find an article explaining the whole palestinian issue since it spans over 5 decades now.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

REsearch / medical reactors require 12% - 19% enrichment, and the higher end is for the more advanced studies.

20% enrichment places the uranium into the category of Highly Enriched. HEU is whats required for a nuclear weapon, and 20% is the bottom base line to achieve a nuclear explosion.

Iran has no need for uranium at those levels since they have no infrastructure that requires it.

From the bit of research I just did, I see that fast-neutron reactors require at least 20% enrichment of the U.

Also worth noting that naval reactors use around 40-45% enrichment...I have a friend in the Norfolk shipyards, he refuels these suckers.