Heavy "Spraying"* in Phoenix Today 2-1-12

Originally posted by MarshMallow_Snake
reply to post by Uncinus

 

This proves that the phenomenon has been around for a while. Now, playing Devil's advocate...what if the spraying is real, and they have been doing so all along?

That would go wholly against what most chemtrail believers are claiming. Their huge claim is that persistent trails have NEVER been in the sky in the past (they never remember seeing them while they were growing up). Therefore, as their argument goes, persistent trails must be something new and different -- e.g., chemtrails.

You can play devil's advocate and "say" the presence of persistent trails in the 1960s could mean they were spraying in the 1960s, but that would destroy the arguments of chemtrailers who say those trails were not around when they were younger, and are a completely new phenomenon (since the 1990s).

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Now, this part I have never heard of. I just figured that they have been around since Jet Engines, which makes sense. I think you are right though...and I think that most of the people that never remember seeing them do not remember because they learned of the conspiracy before actually noticing them.

It is like this picture:



Once the "invisible man" is pointed out to you, he is pretty hard to miss.

reply to post by MarshMallow_Snake

Contrails have been around since long before jet engines.

The second German sighting occurred on May 9, 1919, when a pilot flying over Berlin at about 26,000 feet noticed the generation of a cloud stream that extended for about forty miles behind his plane. This stream eventually spread out to form a cloud layer that was about 3,000 feet thick. The pilot saw a similar phenomenon two days later.

www.accessmylibrary.com...

reply to post by Phage


Interesting. Thanks for that piece of knowledge. I was going to say planes instead of jet engines...but did not know that prop planes could make them.

After reading through my forum and the Chemtrails are Real one, I have pretty much come to the conclusion that chemtrails do not exist. The evidence against far out weighs the evidence for. It may be real, and if it is then God help us, but for now I will say that it is not in my belief system right now.

Thanks to everyone that contributed.

Originally posted by redzareptile
reply to post by ProudBird

 

[

Proud Bird. I know that you post on almost in every thread that mentions chemtrails. I have read your self proclaimed credentials.
I don't know why you can't see the difference between these two types of events.
1. You currently fly for whom ever may be eledgedly sparying?
2. You work for a governmet agency with the sole purpose to dispell any such claims as our imagination.
3. Maybe you believe there is no difference between these two types of emmisions from large aircraft?

I am a sky watcher. I have lived along flight paths on both the eastern seaboard and on the west coast. I am not trying to be confrontational but without knowing how you know and why you are so convinced in what you are saying. I find it hard to accept your snappy writeoff of any claims of "chemtrails".

edit on 1-2-2012 by redzareptile because: (no reason given)

Or 4, he's giving us a [wink, wink], tipping us off, with all his B.S. theories. Maybe i should load my pretty "persistant contrail" pics from today, so he can tell me..."oh, that's NORMAL". As a matter of fact, i see 2 that goes into 1, right now. It looks like a wishbone. They've been spraying A LOT today. Usually, after they spray like this....nasty weather hits the mid-west to east coast, in usually about 2-4 days. Perhaps a major winter storm is on the way....which WOULDN'T be a good thing, right now....considering there have been reports of trees blooming early.

When SHTF, it's not going to ricochet...in slow motion; it's going to splatter all over us. Stay alert...stay prepared...and DON'T fall back asleep.

reply to post by MarshMallow_Snake


That is pretty much how it worked for me too. I heard of the theory, was curious enough to look into it further, and found that, as far as I can determine, there's nothing to it. I found the contrail explanation fits all the time, while the evidence was either faked (which raises alarm bells straight away) or genuine ( and I've saved many of the links that the pro Chemtrail side have provided as they are interesting in their own right) but not quite what it was presented to be.

reply to post by waynos


Whereas I found out about this because of a complaint received by my employer of the time that I was responsible for receiving and following through the investigation and reply process.

Discovering this set of myths caused a great deal of dis-belief and amusement that anyone could be so stupid among all the pilots and other aviation professionals I worked with then.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Now I'm curious about what quarter the complaint came from and what it was specifically about

reply to post by nuttin4U


When you are taking pictures of trails are you also able to get the planes so that they might be identified?

similar to these?







Worthy of note is that all these trails are being left at over 30,000ft, while in the image beow, there is no trail. Note the altitude, but also that the plane looks no different, size or distance wise, to the others, except it was harder to get a focus (trails are easy to focus on ,lol)

reply to post by waynos


It was a photo of a B737 airliner from below "spraying" a twin contrail from someone who is part of a "local" chemtrail activist group - for want of a better descriptoin. This person has complained to local politicians, written letters to the editor, submitted pictures and other "evidence" to chemtrail blogs.

The complaint wanted to know what authority the company had for doing this spraying, who had given the airline a contract to do it, and various other silly questions that I don't recall the exact nature of.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


LOL, thanks, hope my snaps above didn't give you a 'flashback'

reply to post by nuttin4U


Yeah, why not post your pics??

Maybe i should load my pretty "persistant contrail" pics from today, so he can tell me..."oh, that's NORMAL". As a matter of fact, i see 2 that goes into 1, right now. It looks like a wishbone.

Gee...."2 that goes into 1".....you don't suppose it is because two airplanes are on different headings, do you?

They've been spraying A LOT today. Usually, after they spray like this....nasty weather hits the mid-west to east coast, in usually about 2-4 days. Perhaps a major winter storm is on the way....

Oh, for Pete's sake!

Yes, the existence of the CONtrails (normal condensation, composed of ice crystals) will be an indicator of approaching weather changes.

How difficult is this to grasp?

reply to post by nuttin4U

They've been spraying A LOT today. Usually, after they spray like this....nasty weather hits the mid-west to east coast, in usually about 2-4 days.

Anything to back that claim up? Then the next time you see these trails you know the weather is changing,well it looks like you have learned what as already been mentioned many times before in this forum. Contrails are an indication of weather changes coming. And it isn't because of chemtrails, it is a natural thing that has been scientifically proven.
Chemtrails, well those have yet to be proven that they exist unless you have some secret evidence to prove they exist.

In fact here are a few pics that you may want to look at...





Maybe I should mention that after I took these the weather was nice for the next week, so how does that happen since chemtrailers always say the x is from chemtrail planes guess they are wrong.

Well I forgot about this little gem...

profhorn.aos.wisc.edu...

So for all you chemtrailers enjoy!!!

reply to post by nuttin4U

 

They've been spraying A LOT today. Usually, after they spray like this....nasty weather hits the mid-west to east coast, in usually about 2-4 days.

As others have said, the atmospheric conditions that may soon bring bad weather are also the same atmospheric conditions that are conducive for contrail persistence.

Therefore, you can think of it this way:
It's not that persistent trails bring the bad weather. It's more that the type of atmospheric conditions tat cause bad weather also allow for persistent contrails. So persistent trails are not the cause of bad weather, but they are more like a result of the conditions that will eventually bring the bad weather.

If you are looking for a "cause and effect" link here, think of persistent trails as an "effect" rather than a "cause".

reply to post by HIWATT


Patents Just because something has a patent doesn't mean it will ever see the light of day!

Do you ever fly Do any chemtrail believers ever fly Why do chemtrail believers even think that would be a logical way to deliver anything

Also can any chemtrail believers please tell me why after living within 30 mile radius of 3 major airports and underneath the flightpath of MANY international routes for 49 years I am STILL here alive and kicking

reply to post by ProudBird


I have now dentified the mystery 767 operator from my earlier pic, it is Delta Airlines. here is another one I got yesterday, and the livery is clearly identifiable.



Interestingly this one didnt show up on flightradar 24 either and neither did a third one, all in the same Delta livery.

Is it just that Delta don't have the required transponder in their planes, for their aircraft to show on that site, or is this an angle the pro chemtrail lobby can get some mileage out of?

reply to post by waynos


Yes

Is it just that Delta don't have the required transponder in their planes...

There is no requirement, as yet, for the ADS-B capability. The flightradar24 site mentions only about 30% of U.S. air carriers are currently equipped (that's an estimate, and will be a changing number as years go by).

The projection for U.S. airspace mandatory ADS-B requirement is sitting at the year 2020. SO they have some time to install the equipment gradually.

ADS-B explained

ADS-B is a replacement for (or supplement to) traditional radar based surveillance of aircraft. ADS-B is a major change in surveillance philosophy – instead of using ground based radar to interrogate aircraft and determine their positions, each aircraft will use GPS to find its own position and then automatically report it.

So for the short-range future, flightradar24 will be ineffective at displaying "all" airplanes....and surely the "khemtrail krowd" (or, the "Insane Cloud Posse") denizens will be using the "fact" that some jets don't appear as their "proof"....sigh.

Okay, what the heck is the matter with you guys?

Nobody has bothered to comment on the huge "U" shaped "contrails" that fill the sky in the video above's screen-shot.

How does that occur in a normal flight path, in rapid succession like this???
I have witnessed these U's filling the sky, just above the city of Santa Cruz, CA. They don't happen out at sea, or over the mountains, nearer to the San Jose Airport (or Oakland, or SF). JUST over the city of SC.
This is a common occurence, but not every day. It has been observed happening all over the world and you can't call it natural or normal air traffic.

These U's cannot be explained by saying planes are circling the airspace near to an airport waiting for clearance to land... due to the altitude which they circle in, being tens of thousands of feet, below the altitude where contrails occur naturally.

How can you explain the fact that when you're outside for hours, enjoying an outdoor activity and you see them roll in (amidst a sky of other normal, unassuming air travel) at 11AM sharp, lay down a mess of U's for 2 hours exactly and then just go away??
That cannot possibly be called normal air travel patterns!

They fly in clean, and you can see it begin sharply at around the outer edge of the city, sometimes with a few dotted points (not like a natural contrail which tapers in) which looks like "pu-puu-puuuuuuuuuu" and then solid. Then after flying straight for a few miles, (when they reach the other edge of town) they do a 180º and fly right back to where it "came on" and boom, the trail shuts off. Then the same plane(s) fly straight for a bit and do another 180º and come back for another round.

I'm not saying it's not naturally-occuring due to a specific pocket of air conditions (unlikely due to lack of tapered input) but I'm saying IT IS NOT NORMAL AIR TRAVEL ROUTES (or at altitudes which support contrails)!!!
If it is happening naturally, then their behavior shows they are targeting areas where it occurs and filling these areas with contrails. >>AGAIN: Not normal air traffic