2012 Believers are the Definition of Sheeple

Now I have a feeling this is going to be moved to Rant or outright closed, but I feel this is an important matter we need to discuss. While what I am about to say applies to all of ATS I feel it is most deserved in this forum. For the past few months not only have I been trying to educate people on the Maya and 2012 in general (unfortunately those threads have been buried by fearmongering), I have also been trying to get to the bottom of why people believe in 2012. The answer I have found is pretty much that its because it's "alternative" and because New Age authors say that something is going to happen. Now allow me to explain how I came up with this conclusion.

We have all seen the claims regarding 2012 and through my research I have found that most of these claims simply aren't true. So it made me wonder why people are believing in this if the claims aren't true. So, I decided to find out how much people actually know about the evidence that goes into these claims regarding 2012. I started with the claim that is at the core of all 2012 prophecies, that the Mayan Long Count ends on that day. I created a thread asking for someone to provide me an example of the Long Count that ends after 13 baktun. So far no one has been able to provide me with a single example. This is the cornerstone that all 2012 theories are based on and not a single person can even provide evidence to support the claim. They have simply been told this is true by New Age authors and the History Channel and are now parroting it as truth.

Recently I created another thread questioning one of the most oft-repeated claims made by 2012 believers. This time I was looking for other civilizations that talked about 2012. We've all seen these claims that what makes 2012 so different from other prophecies is that it is the convergence of a number of prophecies from different civilizations. Well, it turns out that despite all these other prophecies from around the world 2012 believers cannot produce a single one. I have asked this question numerous times outside of my thread and never have I received a legitimate response. The closest I have come are people copy-and-pasting a list from another website that claims certain civilizations have these prophecies without providing any documentation or evidence in any way. Not surprisingly with less than an hour of research I was able to find that each of the claims made by this list were wrong. So, once again we have a case of 2012 believers parroting information simply because it comes from an "alternative" source.

While I could continue to list instances where claims have been made with no support other than the word of a New Age author I believe this sufficiently proves my point. The purpose of this thread however is not to troll, it is to shine a light on the flaws in our own methodology. As I said before this thread applies to all of ATS, but the 2012 forum is most in need of its immediate illumination. People constantly on here claim to be free thinkers or that they are thinking outside the box. They make claims that make them sound superior to those "sheeple" who follow the MSM. However, all they have done is replace their box with a different one. Just because you aren't following the larger crowd doesn't mean you aren't one of the sheeple yourself.

Let me give another non-2012 example. There's a website that gets posted on here rather frequently. It's called Natural News. Almost every time an article from there gets posted the thread becomes emotionally-driven response after emotionally-driven response for pages. In every single case though it turns out that Natural News is either lying or misrepresenting the truth. If an article from Natural News were posted on Fox News' website every claim would be pulled out and checked and within the first few posts the lies would be found out. However, since Natural News is not part of the MSM members take its word as gospel without vetting any of the information.

The motto of ATS is "Deny Ignorance." So let's start doing that. Stop taking every New Age, alternative, or fringe claim as the truth without investigating the claims that go into it. Alternative news sites depend on you for their money just as much as the MSM. In fact they depend on you moreso for their money. As a result they are going to find ways to keep you reading and coming back even if it isn't honest journalism. As a whole we need to start looking at and investigating the claims made by both sides of an argument. That's how you deny ignorance. We need to stop placing our support in things just because they "feel" right. Too many of the world's decisions are based on immediate emotional responses and look where that has gotten us. Maybe if more people truly started denying ignorance we could find the truth all of us are looking for and maybe, just maybe, the world would become a better place.

I am living in the 2012!
That is proof enough that 2012 is real!
As for sheeple that is all of us, you and I included.
Unless you believe you have all of the pieces to all of this worlds puzzles, then in that case you are in denial.
The only thing I know is that I truly know nothing.

starting out your threads by insulting people, will probably bring poor results.

reply to post by LittleBlackEagle


Lets face it a sensational title is now the only way to get attention on here. I have seen many a well researched thread wallow in obscurity simply because the title didn't provoke a controversial response. While I normally wouldn't take the route of cheap tricks to get attention I feel that this issue to important to be ignored.

if you don't have anything nice to say, please don't post a giant thread about it.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by LittleBlackEagle

 

Lets face it a sensational title is now the only way to get attention on here. I have seen many a well researched thread wallow in obscurity simply because the title didn't provoke a controversial response. While I normally wouldn't take the route of cheap tricks to get attention I feel that this issue to important to be ignored.

you're basing an opinion on an opinion in the OP and saying your opinion is the correct one, did i miss anything?

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
They make claims that make them sound superior to those "sheeple" who follow the MSM. However, all they have done is replace their box with a different one.

I say good for you, insult what you find stupid but be prepared to be schooled.

If you take away all prophecy, even timewave zero, you are left with a world run by Satanist Monkeys, a planet in a solar system in a galaxy.

My approach to it is not the Michael Shermer psychological approach because EVERYONE has an agenda believers and skeptics are dipping into the same memestream...y'know why do some people NOT beleive "crazy stuff".

Take away all that BS and you are left with some kind of human made disaster and/or astro-bio-quantum physics.

That should be the focus here, the physics model that supports the alleged heavenly signs and such.

Stereolgist and I like to argue this...I say an aether/mhd cosmos can support the idea of an inner solar system quantum phase shifting when the sun goes supernova, he says the universe is governed by nuclear/gravitational forces...

Culture and psychology are only relavant to people with something to lose or gain by the promotion of 2012 galactic cross.

reply to post by biggmoneyme


I don't think he was being the opposite of nice. He called a sizable portion of the forum sheeple, for sure, but in his "giant thread" he simply laid out his researched claim without very many emotion based arguments.

I personally think that 12/21/12 is likely not to be as interesting as many think it will, but anything is possible. I think that the year 2012 itself will be a year of great change and importance in human matters.

Though your sensational title throws me off a bit, this is a relatively well written article. Sure, it may be based on your opinions and observations, but they are not horribly biased or condescending either.

I have to say I agree with your statement that we should not just blindly follow what "feels" right, though I do believe intuition is an important aspect of our lives that can bring many benefits if properly utilized. Also, you didn't detail YOUR beliefs, you simply more or less made a rant about people not "denying ignorance".

I have an extensive understanding of the current "New Age" movement, so I can pretty much tell you exactly why many people believe in the 2012 theories. Now, the whole world ending December 21st? That's last years crap man, we have much better theories now. If you want the REAL reason 2012 is so important, take a note from your own article and "deny ignorance" as I have and do some proper research.

Namaste

reply to post by Xcalibur254

The motto of ATS is "Deny Ignorance." So let's start doing that. Stop taking every New Age, alternative, or fringe claim as the truth without investigating the claims that go into it. Alternative news sites depend on you for their money just as much as the MSM. In fact they depend on you moreso for their money. As a result they are going to find ways to keep you reading and coming back even if it isn't honest journalism.

Agreed.

Nicely put and a good CIVIL rebuttal to the 2012 doomers.

reply to post by Xcalibur254
Are you looking for quality of responses or quantity of responses ? some of the best discussions are going on over in the quiet corner of the room ...peace

reply to post by biggmoneyme


True or false, people on this site regularly call people who don't buy into "alternative" theories close-minded and sheeple? This is merely a rebuttal pointing out that many of these people who claim to be open-minded are still allowing themselves to be led around by the nose. The shepherds may be different, but they're flocking. A commonly quoted adage on this site is "follow the money." Well, these alternative media outlets and New Age authors rely just as much on money and maintaining a reader base as the MSM yet these "fringe" sources seem to be above question. Why?

reply to post by Xcalibur254


I don't think you pack the gear to engage in garbage posting. Leave it to the experts.----------------------

reply to post by the2ofusr1


I'm not looking for responses. I'm looking for people to read what I have written. I feel this to be a very important issue. Older members often complain about how ATS has gone downhill over the past few years. I feel the reason for this is because it is no longer a community of leaders, but a community of followers. When I first joined the threads that got the most attention were those by members like undo, internos, and mikesingh who were presenting their own independent research and reaching their own conclusions. Now the most popular threads are those with inflammatory titles that only present what someone else's words. And there's a very good reason why you don't see many well-researched topics anymore. Nobody ends up reading them. People would now rather have a flame war than actually learn something.

reply to post by CrimsonNova


I have looked into the both the doomsday and the ascension theories. They're both based on misrepresentations of the truth and lies. The one who pretty much started the ascension theories was Jose Arguelles and he had to create his own "Mayan" calendar to get his theories to work. John Major Jenkins has come out and said that the alignment he bases his theories on occurs every year and that a better alignment occurred on the winter solstice back in 1998. I have spent extensive amounts of time discussing the fallacies regarding Carl Calleman's theories and even have a topic debunking many of his claims. I am very familiar with the non-doomsday 2012 theories and they are just as valid as the doomsday ones.

While I have not been here long, I have found much of what Xcalibur254 has to say very informative. Let's face it, this thread is more about how sheep are calling other sheep, sheep. It is sickening and hypocritical. I see this attitude as a prevailing stance throughout the forums.

Basically, this thread, to me, is saying. Don't just take what you see or read (no matter the medium used to broadcast the information) at face value. Always do your own research in order to validate/invalidate the information.

I really like the way that Xcalibur254 presented this. He didn't beat around the bush but he wasn't overtly rude. It is a very tactful thread.

Xcalibur254; hear, hear.

S&F

-saige-

here OP



now you can unlock the message of my signature ...first verse XD

reply to post by Xcalibur254


I second that.
Its all a new age scam to make money.
Theres nothing more to it.
The Mayans were a time cult, that actually fulfilled their demise.
Their prophecies, are irrelevant, and don't exist for 2012.
All that happens is their calendar enters another eon.
Time does stop. Nothin happens. It is in the nature of the calendar to do so.

Now that 2012 is here (and we still have a long way to go) its difficult not to question 2012 theories/conspiracies , whatever you would like to call them. I do not question at all that many of the predictions have been falsified only for a simple way to make a profit , however we cannot deny that things are starting to feel different. I know that that is a vague statement , I don't really know what it means myself. It might be a feeling of anticipation? Or maybe expectation. With movies , media and the access to the internet , everything is much more openly discussed now than it was 20 or 30 years ago. We are able to share information , comment , debunk and flame. All of the flaming set aside , i personally can't shake the strange feeling that something horrible is going to happen. This isn't a sad attempt at fear mongering or anything like that , just a gut feeling i suppose. However, there is no denying that between all of the more recent increase in natural disasters and other episodes like the sky / earth sounds , it is not something that can be ignored. Ahhh... i'm not sure where i'm going with this. Maybe i'll come back after i grab some coffee