NOAH 950 YEARS OLD

reply to post by WEALLNEED2KNOW


OK, we will be gentle.

Skeptics claim that the flood narrative of Genesis is a rewritten version of an original myth, The Epic of Gilgamesh, from the Enuma Elish produced by the Sumerians. The flood of the Epic of Gilgamesh is contained on Tablet XI2 of twelve large stone tablets that date to around 650 B.C. These tablets are obviously not originals, since fragments of the flood story have been found on tablets that date to 2,000 B.C. It is likely that the story itself originated much before that, since the Sumerian cuneiform writing has been estimated to go as far back as 3,300 B.C. The dating of Genesis is uncertain, since the preservation of papyri is not nearly as good as that of stone. Liberal scholars place the date between 1,500 and 500 B.C., although the events are claimed to have occurred several thousand years earlier.

source

The Epic of Gilgamesh

The Flood of Noah and the Flood of Gilgamesh

reply to post by WEALLNEED2KNOW
You might like this podcast by Chuck Missler on Why The 8th Day ...peace www.khouse.org...

reply to post by autowrench


There's an older flood tablet than either of those. It's dated 2200 bc.

www.icr.org...

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by WEALLNEED2KNOW

 

I believe that before sin entered the world. There was no death. God did not ever create and give life to anything to have it die. The wages of sin is death. Therefore God must have created us to be immortal. We have spiraled downward since then. The Bible even says that God gives us at the most 120 yrs. No one now days lives past that. Most don't get close to that but with a few exceptions 120 yrs seems to be it. Try to add more to your threads.

+1 to this.
The Bible tells us that sin entered the world through the rebellion of Adam and Eve - taking fruit from the one tree (the tree of the knowledge of good and evil) that God had commanded them not to eat from.
From this point on, creation (all creation, Romans says that "Creation itself groans awaiting its redemption") began a downward degenerative spiral. If you look at the genealogies in the Old Testament, particularly those in Genesis, you'll see that the number of years that men live for drops continually from Adam (930 years) down to the post-flood descendants of Noah (whose lives are generally 120 years max).

Prior to the flood, God said "My Spirit will not content with man forever; his years will be 120", hence the change. Now, whether these changes are due to environmental factors (different weather conditions in the post-flood world), diet (man didn't eat meat before the flood), other external factors, or purely by divine decree (or even any combination of the above), I don't know - but I suspect a combination of the above, combined with continued genetic degradation (a process I believe all life suffers from as a result of sin).

On the evolutionary question, the Bible's answer is fairly straightforward and clear. Evolution teaches that organisms have grown increasingly complex with time. The Bible teaches the exact opposite - that degenerative processes due to the effect of sin have caused all living things to decay (this includes genetic decay); creatures thus "devolve" rather than evolve. Speciation etc. is therefore a result of this process. As a result you'd expect that Adam and Eve, and their children, would have been immensely more intelligent than we are (though obviously the technology available to them was either more limited, or simply quite different). This also explains much of the "Ancient Aliens" theory; rather than our ancestors being cave-dwelling troglodytes, they were highly intelligent beings capable of doing amazing things - and probably had technology that we, even today, do not possess... or at least the intelligence to better utilize what they DID have.

Hope that helps.

reply to post by WEALLNEED2KNOW
You may want to download E Sword for your pc ....www.e-sword.net... You can download diffrent versions of the bible to compare as well as commentaries and biblical helps ...its a neet tool ....peace

reply to post by Awen24


i thought the reasoning was along the lines to what u two said.

after mankind disregarded the governing of god to indulge in desires suggested their base selves violated the very object they tried to consume and became a part of. and the effect of this is even apperent in the attempt at a failed understanding of how old noah is or how time even functions regarding the state of static living and non static cease to exist periods.

Noah's Ark has been rediscovered and now in Turkey has a sign saying 'This way to Noah's Ark' so the locals believe it as does the Government. See David Fasold's Book 'Noah ark discovered'

Not only does the Bible tell of people living very long lives, so do many Folktales (which many pagans believe) and people were taller then too, about 8 foot was the norm, which is also mentioned in Folktales.

When anybody reaches their 60th birthday, Saturn is in the same place as when they were born, and also when they reach 120 years. Cosmology not astrology.Something to do with vibrations and frequencies.
Science has no idea why we die of old age. Our DNA is actually quite tough and does regenerate itself. Only being in a highly acidic environment can DNA be permanently damaged, that and ionising radiation.
There is an unfulfilled prophecy in Genesis that says in those days (ie future) people will live very long lives. So at some time starting from the beginning of the Millennial rule of Jesus, people will get to live very long lives, centuries even.

When you start to really get into Bible study, you will discover that the Bible most like the Hebrew is the New King James (after the Old King James Bible).
But people shouldn't criticise the English translations too much-I've found out some instances where a hidden message has been found in the English but not in the Hebrew. Our English language has been guided to where it is now.

I've read that book Secret History of the World,and the only beings who have chlorophyll in their bodies are genetically modified greys. The human race was an awesome race before the fall, not plants.

And in Proverbs vegetarians are said to be weak. Even the long hidden Bible written by the Essenes only say not to eat Flesh ie. Human flesh is not to be eaten. Jesus ate fish and lamb.
In the old testament Ezekial after the Baal altar was flash-fried, ravens came with meat for him, after he was drained. To be spiritually strong you need meat, that is what we are left with after the fall. Before that we could be total vegetarians.
Don't tell vegetarians, carrots scream when you pull them up and plants can tell when you are going to burn them, they scream.

If you read the Talmud of the Jews they say the fall of man was forbidden fruit......... of sex with an angel-both the woman; Eve and the man; Adam. Doesn't it say Eve was seduced!!!!
(High energy is released in the act of sex and that is why you should only have sex with your married partner.)
And then she had two sets of twins; Cain and his sister; human and angel hybrids, and Abel and his sister; full humans.
This is why Jesus says there are two families (races) on Earth -humans and hybrids.

Noah was one of the last pure bred humans and the animals that were saved were the last ones who had not been genetically modified. Read Book of Jasher for more insights on the Flood.

Same thing the Talmud says of the situation between Noah and his son Ham, Ham didn't just laugh, he......did Noah.
A lot of the Old Testament is about sex in the wrong situations, which produces negative energy.

Noah was the first man to be fair haired and fair skinned, with blue eyes. This was usually a sign in those days, that the child was part fallen angel (Nordics now) but in Noah's case God had mutated his DNA, and this really did cause confusion until Enoch was asked. Enoch used to visit Earth from Heaven (as in Book of Enoch) as he didn't die but was translated to the next energy level or dimension.

Well I didn't mean to scare you but the reason for the Bible was to tell us why we fell, in such a way that children could read it without getting scared. And that God is going to put it right at a specific time, trying to save as many of his children as will let him. Satan is just a tool for us to choose free will.

Peace and chuck the NIV.
And I was brought up as a Fundamentalist born again Christian but I have now grown up. I am also a Scientist and I have been to Heaven several times and seen many angels and demons.
It has taken me many years to get this far to the Truth, may you have an easier journey.

reply to post by Awen24


Wow Awen you certainly detailed what I already believed in a few different ways i didn't consider before. Thank you indeed.

Originally posted by WEALLNEED2KNOW
Genesis 17 1 The Covenant of Circumcision : This
had to cause serious infections among all jews in the first 8 days of life !

No, actually if there was any time that is best to perform any sort of minor surgery, it is the 8th day. It has to do with the clotting of blood.

Prothrombin is a plasma protein involved in the blood clotting process. Specifically it is the precursor which catalyzes the final step of the clotting process ( Vitamin K along with calcium is needed to convert prothrombin to its derivative thrombin). The final step of the clotting process is the conversion of fibrinogen to fibrin, which forms the scab over the injury.

After a child is born, Vitamin K levels take a dip, because outside of intestinal bacteria, our bodies cannot synthesize it. A newborn has no intestinal bacteria of their own, the womb after all, is a fairly sterile environment.

Mysteriously enough, prothrombin levels in the infant spike to 110% of normal levels on the eight day of life. Never again will the prothrombin levels be this high.

Isn't it amazing the advanced medicine that seems to have been integrated into some bronze-age, shepherds' writings!

reply to post by WEALLNEED2KNOW


The hypothesis, theory is . . .

that there was a substantial water canopy surrounding the earth in the upper atmosphere that filtered a lot of the DNA destructive cosmic rays out from hitting the earth

UNTIL

Noah's flood, when God crashed the water canopy in 40 days of constant rain--rain had never occurred before, on the earth.

After that, man's DNA degraded and individuals lived shorter and shorter lives.

Also, the simple costs of sinful living also degraded man's longevity . . .

----

Of course, 'super-rationalists' etc. decry any such explanations.

imho, God always tends to provide SUFFICIENT evidence to support FAITH without FORCING faith. There's always left some room for doubt.

OTHERWISE, there'd be NO ROOM FOR DOUBT

AND THEREBY, NO ROOM FOR 'FREE-WILL.'

WITHOUT FREE-WILL,

There would be no option nor capacity, nor opportunity for

LOVE.

Given that God created us for A LOVE-WALK-DANCE-RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM . . .

at least the convincing appearance of FREE-WILL becomes vitally important.

Therefore, the opportunity to choose to rebel against God is set-up.

Yet, for there to be a TRUE CHOICE, THERE HAS TO BE

TRUE CONSEQUENCES for rebellious, destructive, sinful choices.

OTHERWISE, THERE REALLY IS NO CHOICE, REALLY, at all.

And in THAT SITUATION, one may as well carve up their friend's body for the Bar-B-Q as well as feed him a steak and strawberry shortcake.

NOTHING would make ANY difference.

IF man is NOTHING MORE THAN a rat, a pigeon, a radish or a rock . . . CHANCE PLUS TIME--

THEN NOTHING MAKES ANY DIFFERENCE.

IF man is CREATED in God's image, then

Noah makes sense. And Noah's age makes sense. And our decreased years at this point make sense.


imho.

Originally posted by yourboycal2
reply to post by WEALLNEED2KNOW

 

"its hard to imagine anything let alone anybody living 950 years maybe some scholars on site could help me with this subject before I embark on this journey,"

Trees live for 1000s of years, olive trees for examples, does that work for "anything"?

reply to post by frozenspark


That's the thinking. Plus they say there was a water canopy in the atmosphere, which is a very strong green house gas. That's why there were tropical plants in antarctica. This canopy also gave much better cover against dna damaging UV rays.

Originally posted by frozenspark
I've heard a theory that Noah lived much longer ago than what is commonly believed and that back then, oxygen content of the atmosphere was much higher (which why large living creatues like dinosaurs could exist). Oxygen has rejuvenatory attributes, and the theory suggested that when breathing air that has more oxygen, we stay younger longer and have the ability to live past what is our modern mortality range.


Remember, just a theory.. but I thought it was interesting.

Actually, a higher concentration of oxygen is bad on the body. Oxygen free radicals is one of the reasons our cells die as we age.

Breathing over 50% oxygen for more than 48hrs can lead to what's known as oxygen toxicity; which leads to a pulmonary fibrosis.

Source: Long career in respiratory therapy; take it or leave it.

reply to post by WEALLNEED2KNOW


In all honesty, the first thing you need to do is get rid of your NIV and grab a King James Bible. You will not regret it. The NIV completely remove over 60,000 words from the Greek text from which the New Testament was translated, not to mention the OT. Please get the right Bible before you start reading through it.

As for age of Noah. plus the ten generations before him that lived just as long that you failed to mention.....they lived as long as the Bible says. If you read the Bible searching for truth...then at least believe what you read. If you set out with idea of not believing what you read....why read it at all? Just go back to reading TV guide or Playboy.

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by WEALLNEED2KNOW

 

In all honesty, the first thing you need to do is get rid of your NIV and grab a King James Bible. You will not regret it. The NIV completely remove over 60,000 words from the Greek text from which the New Testament was translated, not to mention the OT. Please get the right Bible before you start reading through it.

I agree on the NIV front - it's not the best translation out there, though my stance is for different reasons. I'm not a KJV purist, but the real issue I have with the NIV is that, rather than directly translate certain phrases (e.g "gird up your loins"), the interpretation is done for you ("prepare your minds for action"). While this may have its uses, the job of interpretation has been expressly given to the Holy Spirit, ("He will make all things known to you") and should not be taken upon a man or group of men on our behalf.

Regardless, the choice is up to you, and although the NIV is not flawless in its translation (neither is the KJV for that matter), the fact is that Christ is still clearly presented through the text. The errors in translation are significant, but not game-changing. If you find it easy to read and helpful in your studies, stick with it. Once you feel you've got a grasp on the concepts, then by all means progress to a better translation, perhaps NKJV (New King James Version) which retains much of the quality translation of the KJV without the archaic language.

As for age of Noah. plus the ten generations before him that lived just as long that you failed to mention.....they lived as long as the Bible says. If you read the Bible searching for truth...then at least believe what you read. If you set out with idea of not believing what you read....why read it at all? Just go back to reading TV guide or Playboy.

This, however, I disagree with in its entirety.
Nowhere in the Bible are we told to blindly accept what we read. In fact, we're told the exact opposite. Paul commended the Bereans for going home and actively seeking the truth about what they were told. We're called to be "wise as serpents", "always ready to give an answer", and so on. You simply can't do this without questioning. The God of the Bible isn't threatened by our questions, and for a good reason... He has the answers to all of them! This is exactly why, as I quoted, Jesus could say that The Holy Spirit would "teach us all things". So, before you read, before you study, pray... ask for the Holy Spirit's guidance in understanding what you read. Then, if you encounter something that you simply can't grasp (and it happens to us all, no matter how long we've been Christians, no matter how long we've spent in study), hold God to His own promise - He is always faithful! Go back to Him in prayer, and say "Father, you promised your Spirit would teach me all things. I don't understand what I'm reading, and I ask in Jesus' Name that you reveal this to me as you said you would.", then, trust Him to do just that. Understanding will come; perhaps not in ten minutes, perhaps not in a day, but something will happen that will trigger understanding in you. I guarantee it, and so does the Bible.

Never be afraid to question. God is not small that He should be threatened by such things... but when you DO question, seek Him for your answers. He is always faithful.

Keep reading, keep asking good questions. It's important that you do so. Deny ignorance, indeed! That's what the Bible is all about - it begins with a revelation about where we came from, and ends with a Revelation about where we're going! It's all about God unveiling the truth about the entire history of man and God together - so keep reading and keep peeking behind the veil!

Originally posted by napayshni57
reply to post by autowrench

 

There's an older flood tablet than either of those. It's dated 2200 bc.

www.icr.org...

Math fail. Did you read the entire paragraph he presented or did you just scim to the part that said 2,000 B.C.? Here, I'll show you.

It is likely that the story itself originated much before that, since the Sumerian cuneiform writing has been estimated to go as far back as 3,300 B.C.

Proper math skills would inidicate that 3,300 B.C. is older than 2,200 B.C.

reply to post by randyvs

I believe that before sin entered the world. There was no death.

Hi Randy, it's me Titen, a few questions I have for you:

1) What did carnivorous animals eat if there was no death?

2) What did Adam and Eve eat?

3) If the answer to number 2 is fruit than how did they manage to eat the living cells of a piece of fruit without those cells breaking down and dying?

4) From where in Genesis do you get your belief about there being no death?

The wages of sin being death comes from Romans right? From the Apostle Paul. You do realize he was writing thousands and thousands of years after the Genesis story was written. That's an awful long way away to be using it to base such a belief. It also doesn't answer the main question of the OP, which is, more or less, how did people live so long.

Even if there was NO death before the "Fall" it doesn't explain why the lifespan was 950 rather than the normal human lifespan. Later on God decides against such long lives, but if he's God and he's perfect why did he let them walk out of Eden with a lifespan of nearly a thousand years? Seems like an awfully big MISTAKE for a perfect deity to make.

Mind if I address these?

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by randyvs

 

I believe that before sin entered the world. There was no death.

Hi Randy, it's me Titen, a few questions I have for you:

1) What did carnivorous animals eat if there was no death?

There were no carnivorous animals before the flood. While this sounds odd, it's an established scientific fact that there are numerous examples of carnivores feeding entirely on plant life. For example, www.vegetarismus.ch...

2) What did Adam and Eve eat?

They were vegetarian. It was not until after the flood that God expressly gave Noah the right to eat meat (Genesis 9:3).

3) If the answer to number 2 is fruit than how did they manage to eat the living cells of a piece of fruit without those cells breaking down and dying?

There are multiple terms used to refer to "life" in Hebrew. Likewise, there are many kinds of death. The death conferred on to creation as a result of the fall is expressly instituted in MAN. There is a really great exposition on this found here: www.reasons.org...

4) From where in Genesis do you get your belief about there being no death?

"Did God really say, 'if you eat it, you will surely die?'"
The inference is very clear: no human death occurred prior to the fall. Plant and animal death is different because they have a different form of "life". Refer to the paper referenced above, which explains it all clearly.

The wages of sin being death comes from Romans right? From the Apostle Paul. You do realize he was writing thousands and thousands of years after the Genesis story was written. That's an awful long way away to be using it to base such a belief. It also doesn't answer the main question of the OP, which is, more or less, how did people live so long.

"The wages of sin is death" may come from Romans, but the concept is there quite clearly in Genesis 3. Paul is simply expounding on a pre-existing teaching. If you're going to argue using Scripture itself as your weapon, you also need to consider that the Bible says that the Scriptures were written "as men were carried along by the Holy Spirit", and is therefore not of human origin. This nullifies your argument of thousands of years, particularly given that the Word (Jesus Christ) is "the same yesterday, today and forever".

Even if there was NO death before the "Fall" it doesn't explain why the lifespan was 950 rather than the normal human lifespan. Later on God decides against such long lives, but if he's God and he's perfect why did he let them walk out of Eden with a lifespan of nearly a thousand years? Seems like an awfully big MISTAKE for a perfect deity to make.

950 *WAS* the normal life span prior to the flood. If you look at the genealogies, most of the people prior to the flood lived in excess of 850 years or so. The constraints placed upon lifespans after the flood are made at God's discretion; I suspect (and this is my own conjecture) in order to slow the pace of man's progression; that is, I'm suggesting that the long lifespan of man led to a number of issues prior to the flood that God wished to spare us from after the flood.

As far as allowing Adam and Eve to leave Eden with a long lifespan... I don't see why this is an issue. The point of their expulsion from Eden was to deny them immortality while they remained sinful. You'll see that this is reversed in the book of Revelation, where the tree of life is restored to God's people after their redemption.

Importantly though, it's worth noting that nothing in Scripture is accidental.
Every single Word contained in it is there for a specific purpose and for a specific reason. It may be challenging, confusing, frustrating, encouraging, uplifting, or even infuriating, but it's all there for a reason. The older I get and the more I read, the more convinced I become that God's Word is not only the most incredible work ever written, but that its flawless coherence, despite 66 books and 40+ authors, is a testament to its divine origin that cannot be denied.

Regardless - I hope those answers help. Keep asking good questions... and defy ignorance!

(and no, that's not a typo. Defy!)

the scriptual myth that humanity lived long lives before the 'Flood era' is just more myth
designed to be an authorative source...


methusla & noah living upwards of 900 years is pure bunk

and it had nothing to do with a higher % of oxygen in the Air...
it had to do with the genetic/DNA engineering that the 'Angels' did upon the orders of the 'creator'

the falsehood...is meant to reinforce the religious masses that pre-flood and post-flood life
was 'different' for humans so as to differentiate humanity...which then amplifies the power that G-d has over humans
...a bunch of bull if you ask me


there is a natural sequence and cycle of cell regeneration
an organ can replace its cell parts for 7 cycles and that corresponds to a life term of 120 years

the folklore that pre-flood people lived long is a BS proposition,
'the scriptures give those real long lifetimes to Gods favored men... to mark them as special and blessed...
i.e. special over and above the common folks that were downright, evil sinners in comparison--> to egos like methusela & noha who supposedly live close to 1,000 years each
which translates into having lived the length of 9 ordinary lives
(whoa....is that a telltale giveaway?..a cat has 9 lives according to legend)



there's more but the' Bush' has my brain tangled up for now

reply to post by Awen24

The death conferred on to creation as a result of the fall is expressly instituted in MAN.

How is it just for God to curse all of his creation based on the sins of just Adam and Eve? Surely, let's say, Gazelles, did nothing wrong to deserve suddenly being the favorite meal of lions. Also, while some carnivores have been known to eat plant life, plants do not grow everywhere that carnivore's live in enough abundance to feed metabolisms like there's. If you're going to suggest that ALL the animals lived in Eden and thus had enough food this only compounds the problem as there are millions and millions of animal species and Eden is meant to be on Earth.

The inference is very clear: no human death occurred prior to the fall.

No it isn't. God had only just created Eve in Chapter 2. By Chapter 3 of Genesis they are banished from Eden. Had it given an amount of years they spent in Eden an inference could be made about whether they were immortal but it doesn't say how long it was. It also makes no direct statement about whether they were immortal or not. As sin did not exist in human beings prior to the Fall and, according to you, predatory animals were vegetarian at the time, and disease and such were all products of the Fall, there wouldn't be anything to test whether Adam and Eve were actually immortal. There would be nothing endangering them and thus no reason for them to die whether they were immortal or not.

The best that can be said is that the text doesn't RULE OUT that they were immortal.

This nullifies your argument of thousands of years, particularly given that the Word (Jesus Christ) is "the same yesterday, today and forever".

Only if you're gullible enough to believe the Bible's claim that it is the word of God inspired by the Holy Spirit. But any book can claim to be God inspired. The Bible was written by men.

that is, I'm suggesting that the long lifespan of man led to a number of issues prior to the flood that God wished to spare us from after the flood.

But you're making my point for me. If letting human kind leave the garden of Eden full of sin with an almost millennial lifespan led to a "number of issues" this implies that God made a mistake. Of course one could just as easily argue that creating imperfect beings that could be corrupted and then putting the thing that could easily corrupt them within their grasp and then pointing it out to them without ever giving them a sense of right and wrong is a pretty big mistake. If God were perfect things would have gone perfectly.

the more convinced I become that God's Word

How are you even convinced that it is "God's Word" to begin with...

Rather than derail the thread feel free to U2U me the answer to the broader questions if you like, I have no intention of ruining the OPs thread with a lengthy discussion about the entirety of scripture.