Assault weapon Ban officially dead.

THe UK and Austrialia are prime examples of why gun control does not work. You can argue about if the crime rate gone up or down but you all have heard from someoene directly effected by this dumb law. Security guards cannot even defend themselves. Yes the gun murders have probly gone down but i would imagine assualt with a deadly weapon (ie a kniife) or battery has gone up. Think about it In the UK group of teens break into an old mans house. What is the old man to do if they get to him. Call teh police ok thats takes time. The boys could rough up the old man and take what they wish before the cops get there (if he ever called) IN America grampa settles the table by having himself a colt .45 (or any gun at that matter) and teachin those hooligans a leasson. I think they would think twice breakin in a house when there is a potential the person has a gun.

The AWB was pointless. My friend at teh age of 19 bought an SKS which in reality is an ak-47 kip off from a gun shop. Umm the purchase was completely legal and teh only difference between his and a banned one was that his stock was weilded where it wouldnt fold. How is that keepin the streets safe. I dont understand how anti-gun people can even support this./

This is a great start but remember that some states have tighter laws than the federal law that just expired. In NY for example, all those provisions that just expired at a national level remain in effect. It's still outrageous. In Florida I could get a handgun in three days, a CCW (no questions asked) in about two-three months. In New York I have to a have pistol permit to buy a handgun, pay $150 for the process, wait three months or so, before even taking delivery of the handgun. Oh, and then I get to pay for the handgun. Each new purchase is a $25 amendment to your pistol permit.

Hmmm. I envy you Americans sometimes. Here in Canada, our gun crime rate has been historically low, and continues to be extremely low. Despite this, our gun controls laws have been extremely tight.

www.hodgdon.com...

People who complained under the AWB, lookit that. It'll make you cry. On the inside.

DE

Originally posted by DeusEx
Hmmm. I envy you Americans sometimes. Here in Canada, our gun crime rate has been historically low, and continues to be extremely low. Despite this, our gun controls laws have been extremely tight.

www.hodgdon.com...

People who complained under the AWB, lookit that. It'll make you cry. On the inside.

DE

And Switzerland has more relaxed gun laws then the US and less crime then the UK or Canada whats your point?

More effort should be made to get more types of guns off the street and market, assault weapons should only be the beginning, but realistically I don't see it happening in the USA, we are too trigger happy, and the NRA has deep pockets.

IMO, Assault rifles/weapons are more likely used in crimes against cops, not a good thing or move by Bush to let the ban expire.

Miami-Dade Police Officer Shot By Assault Rifle; Shooter At Large
IAMI -- A Miami-Dade County police officer is recovering after she was shot several times. A driver she stopped fired nearly two dozen bullets at her with an A-K-47 assault rifle.

The officer's name was not released. Police say she was in stable condition yesterday at Jackson Memorial Hospital with a wound to the shoulder. She was also grazed on the forehead in shooting.

Originally posted by worldwatcher
More effort should be made to get more types of guns off the street and market, assault weapons should only be the beginning, but realistically I don't see it happening in the USA, we are too trigger happy, and the NRA has deep pockets.

IMO, Assault rifles/weapons are more likely used in crimes against cops, not a good thing or move by Bush to let the ban expire.

Miami-Dade Police Officer Shot By Assault Rifle; Shooter At Large
IAMI -- A Miami-Dade County police officer is recovering after she was shot several times. A driver she stopped fired nearly two dozen bullets at her with an A-K-47 assault rifle.

The officer's name was not released. Police say she was in stable condition yesterday at Jackson Memorial Hospital with a wound to the shoulder. She was also grazed on the forehead in shooting.

Well that was during the ban. this jsut supports how stupid it is and how i cant see anti-gun people supporting it, it does noting.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Originally posted by DeusEx
Hmmm. I envy you Americans sometimes. Here in Canada, our gun crime rate has been historically low, and continues to be extremely low. Despite this, our gun controls laws have been extremely tight.

www.hodgdon.com...

People who complained under the AWB, lookit that. It'll make you cry. On the inside.

DE

And Switzerland has more relaxed gun laws then the US and less crime then the UK or Canada whats your point?

It expresses sympathy for a cause. I wish to see gun controls laws up here relaxed. theoretically, we could lower crime rates even further by giving the people more freedom to obtain weapons. As it is, you have to bend like a pretzel for just the liscence. This si compunded by the fact that most weapons up here are a fair bit more expensive than down there.

DE

Originally posted by worldwatcher
More effort should be made to get more types of guns off the street and market, assault weapons should only be the beginning, but realistically I don't see it happening in the USA, we are too trigger happy, and the NRA has deep pockets.

IMO, Assault rifles/weapons are more likely used in crimes against cops, not a good thing or move by Bush to let the ban expire.

Miami-Dade Police Officer Shot By Assault Rifle; Shooter At Large
IAMI -- A Miami-Dade County police officer is recovering after she was shot several times. A driver she stopped fired nearly two dozen bullets at her with an A-K-47 assault rifle.

The officer's name was not released. Police say she was in stable condition yesterday at Jackson Memorial Hospital with a wound to the shoulder. She was also grazed on the forehead in shooting.

You know why they let it expire? Its because this is a election year and alot of people do not support the AWB. And these people vote. The Dems lost 20 seats in the senate according to Bill Clinton due to the passing of this ban.

"Assault Weapon" Statistics

What was crime like before the ban? The following summary of police statistical surveys is excerpted from David B. Kopel. (Kopel's paper contains the citations for these surveys and lists a few more studies as well.)

California. In 1990, "assault weapons" comprised thirty-six of the 963 firearms involved in homicide or aggravated assault and analyzed by police crime laboratories, according to a report prepared by the California Department of Justice, and based on data from police firearms laboratories throughout the state. The report concluded that "assault weapons play a very small role in assault and homicide firearm cases." Of the 1,979 guns seized from California narcotics dealers in 1990, fifty-eight were "assault weapons."

Chicago. From 1985 through 1989, only one homicide was perpetrated with a military caliber rifle. Of the 17,144 guns seized by the Chicago police in 1989, 175 were "military style weapons."

Florida. Florida Department of Law Enforcement Uniform Crime Reports for 1989 indicate that rifles of all types accounted for 2.6% of the weapons used in Florida homicides. The Florida Assault Weapons Commission found that "assault weapons" were used in 17 of 7,500 gun crimes for the years 1986-1989.

Los Angeles. Of the more than 4,000 guns seized by police during one year, only about 3% were "assault weapons."

Maryland. In 1989-90, there was only one death involving a "semiautomatic assault rifle" in all twenty-four counties of the State of Maryland.

Massachusetts. Of 161 fatal shootings in Massachusetts in 1988, three involved "semiautomatic assault rifles." From 1985 to 1991, the guns were involved in 0.7% of all shootings.

Miami. The Miami police seized 18,702 firearms from January 1, 1989 to December 31, 1993. Of these, 3.13% were "assault weapons."

New Jersey. According to the Deputy Chief Joseph Constance of the Trenton New Jersey Police Department, in 1989, there was not a single murder involving any rifle, much less a "semiautomatic assault rifle," in the

State of New Jersey. No person in New Jersey was killed with an "assault weapon" in 1988. Nevertheless, in 1990 the New Jersey legislature enacted an "assault weapon" ban that included low-power .22 rifles, and even BB guns. Based on the legislature's broad definition of "assault weapons," in 1991, such guns were used in five of 410 murders in New Jersey; in forty-seven of 22,728 armed robberies; and in twenty-three of 23,720 aggravated assaults committed in New Jersey.

New York City. Of 12,138 crime guns seized by New York City police in 1988, eighty were "assault-type" firearms.

New York State. Semiautomatic "assault rifles" were used in twenty of the 2,394 murders in New York State in 1992.

San Diego. Of the 3,000 firearms seized by the San Diego police in 1988-90, nine were "assault weapons" under the California definition.
San Francisco. Only 2.2% of the firearms confiscated in 1988 were military-style semiautomatics.

Virginia. Of the 1,171 weapons analyzed in state forensics laboratories in 1992, 3.3% were "assault weapons."
National statistics. Less than four percent of all homicides in the United States involve any type of rifle. No more than .8% of homicides are perpetrated with rifles using military calibers. (And not all rifles using such calibers are usually considered "assault weapons.") Overall, the number of persons killed with rifles of any type in 1990 was lower than the number in any year in the 1980s.

When the gun control side has it pointed out to them that their sweeping "assault weapons" bans will disarm large numbers of voters, they usually come back with a more limited bill which affects a certain number of scary-looking firearms that they claim are the choice of criminals, which, despite the impression given by Hollywood action movies, is completely untrue.

Actually, police departments nationwide agree that criminals do not prefer these weapons:

Police View: Over 100,000 police officers delivered a message to Congress in 1990 stating that only 2% to 3% of crimes are committed using a so-called "assault weapon."

Congressional Record, 13 September 1990, p. E 2826, citing [Police Advertisement], Roll Call, 3 September 1990. Also, see Howard Schneider, "Gun Owners Take Shot at Schaefer Assault-Weapon Bill," The Washington Post, February 15, 1991

Florida study: In Florida, only 3.5% of the guns recovered by the police were guns that could loosely be defined as "assault weapons."
State of Florida Commission on Assault Weapons, Report, 18 May 1990, pp. 34-41. State of Florida Commission on Assault Weapons, Report, 18 May 1990, pp. 34-41.

California study: The California Department of Justice suppressed an official report showing that "assault weapons" comprised only 3.7% of the guns used in crime. While the report was eventually leaked to the media, it received little press coverage.

David Alan Coia, "Assault rifles said to play small role in violent crime," The Washington Times, 27 June 92.

Virginia task force: A special task force on assault weapons found that only 2.8 percent of the homicides involved "assault-type weapons" during 1992.
Mark Johnson, "Assault-type weapons rarely used," Richmond Times-Dispatch, 4 August 1993.

Knives more deadly: According to the FBI, people have a much greater chance of being killed by a knife or a blunt object than by any kind of rifle, including an "assault rifle." In Chicago, the chance is 67 times greater. That is, a person is 67 times more likely to be stabbed or beaten to death in Chicago than to be murdered by an "assault rifle." FBI, "Crime in the United States," 1994, p. 18. Matt L. Rodriguez, Superintendent of Police for the City of Chicago, 1993 Murder Analysis at 12, 13.


www.awbansunset.com...

[edit on 13-9-2004 by ShadowXIX]

Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Rifles

Specifically, a rifle is considered an "assault weapon" if it can accept a detachable magazine, and possesses two or more of the following features:

Folding or telescopic stock
Pistol grip protruding conspicuously beneath the stock
Bayonet mount
Flash suppressor or threaded barrel
Grenade launcher

Yeah these thing really effect the killing power of a Gun

Since you seem not to know alot about the AWB you might look at Grenade launcher and say thats makes killing easier but you would be wrong. Grenades are tightly regulated as destructive devices and the AWB does not effect that at all.

But those things make a gun look scary to people that dont know anything about guns. So I can understand why you would be confused

Now, see, that was outright underhanded. You twisted my words- but I'll clarify, just for you. It makes the act of killing easier for a proffesional or criminal. It makes it easier to commit, harder to detect. And really, is it hard to obtain 40mm grenades illegally? Probably not. Now, let's throw up some run of the mill questions:

Q. Why would you want a threaded barrel or flash suppressor?

A. to hide flash and make your fire arm use more subtle!

Q. Why?

A. Because it makes it easier to attach a silencer. These aren't hunting tools, or self defence tools. You look at that, and you say "The only reason he would have that is to hunt other people."

I find teh bayonet restriction slightly unreasonable, but then I remember that the US has pockets of militia space, some of which are well armed and provisioned.

So, what teh AWB was really getting at was tools of the trade- for hitmen and paramilitaries. Am I to assume you are overjoyed that these people can get their toys back legally? That you support them?

DE

More effort should be made to get more types of guns off the street and market, assault weapons should only be the beginning, but realistically I don't see it happening in the USA, we are too trigger happy, and the NRA has deep pockets.

IMO, Assault rifles/weapons are more likely used in crimes against cops, not a good thing or move by Bush to let the ban expire.

I'm guessing you are taking this stance out of ignorance of the subject (no offence).
You do understand that the USA exists because of private firearm ownership, don't you?
Have you read ANY of the government studies on the affect of the "assault weapon" ban on violent crime? Here's a hint.....It rhymes with Hero and it's a number .

Can one of you ultra-Liberals please tell me why you think that this law was a good idea? Then tell me what the law actually accomplished (besides the obvious political play by the Democrats when they calculated the expiration to be right before a presidential election.)?

No emotional (It's for the chilllldren) responses please. I want to hear some real logic.

Thanks

I think i'll be purchasing one of each assault weapon...

Take one of those babies to a shooting range... holy moly!
I guess the saying about getting the power between your legs doesn't apply too just motorcycles anymore, nor your legs...

[edit on 13-9-2004 by TrueLies]

i state my opinion and oh god, it suddenly becomes insane to have an opinion differing from the trigger happy.

What is the purpose of an assault weapon????
Why do they need to be in the market for the regular folk????
Why do you want an assualt rifle? What the # are you people shooting at anyway!!!!

Isn't there enough other types of guns and weapons that you could use to protect yourself and property???? Why is it soo important to have these weapons back in the market if it wasn't for making certain pockets fatter.

I ain't here to argue my opinion on this, I already have one and simply wanted to state it.

Ugh!!!

And really, is it hard to obtain 40mm grenades illegally?

Probably not, the key word here is legally. Do you think that anyone who obtains high explosive ammunition like that, without proper authorization, really cares one bit about the launcer being legal? I had someone try to sell me an anti-tank shoulder fired missile on 42nd street(New York) about 10 years ago. Do you think he worries about what the law says?
We are talking about law abiding citizens buying firearms for lawful purposes. Nothing else.
My primary carry sidearm is a Smith & Wesson 910. They used to be called 915's but they had to reduce the capacity of the magazine to 10 rounds because of this stupid law. I say stupid because I just went out and bought a couple of 15 round mags made pre-stupid law(1994). Guess what! It is completely legal to do so but also expensive. Supply and demand and all that. Now maybe us law abiding people can go and buy a $10 replacement magazine for what it's worth instead of triple to ten times the original price.

Originally posted by worldwatcher
i state my opinion and oh god, it suddenly becomes insane to have an opinion differing from the trigger happy.

What is the purpose of an assault weapon????
Why do they need to be in the market for the regular folk????
Why do you want an assualt rifle? What the # are you people shooting at anyway!!!!

Isn't there enough other types of guns and weapons that you could use to protect yourself and property???? Why is it soo important to have these weapons back in the market if it wasn't for making certain pockets fatter.

I ain't here to argue my opinion on this, I already have one and simply wanted to state it.

If you dont want to own a "Assault weapon" Nobody forces you too. But people that think like you( Im not saying you ) feel they have the right to force their views on other people that dont agree with you. You can have your own views on the subject thats fine but why do people feel they need to force their views on other people that dont agree with them.

I am a target shooter I shot paper with my "Assault weapon"

as for the ''making certain pockets fatter'' this will really lower the prices of things under the ban. I could have went out last year and bought a pre ban hi-capacity magazine. They increased the price of them though but now new runs of these magazines can be made which will lower the price. So I dont know who is getting richer because of this.

[edit on 13-9-2004 by ShadowXIX]

[edit on 13-9-2004 by ShadowXIX]

What is the purpose of an assault weapon????

Glad you asked!!!

An assault weapon is used for war. Mainly close combat but with options to use it for long range as well.
Here is where the problem lies. None of the firearms listed in this law are "assault weapons"!!! They are civilian versions of military arms. They ARE NOT MACHINE GUNS!!!! Besides what the media and liberal politicians may tell you.
These rifles are very well suited for target shooting (The AR-15 is one of the most popular in 300 Yard competitions) as well as home defense (I prefer a shotgun, personally). Then there is the real reason for the Second Amendment....to be as well armed as the government....just in case.

They make REALLY poor criminal weapons since they tend to be big and really loud. Not to mention that most gang bangers don't want to spend $2,500.00 on a crime gun that they need to throw in a river somewhere....

Gun control is the only topic I agree with republicans on. In my opinion this is the one good thing to come out of the bush presidency
People have their hearts in the right place about this ban its just not effective though. These guns are no more effective for killing police officers then hunting rifles.
I am in favor of regulation for guns. Licenses are a necessity for dangerous items. However I think the license process should be less about expensive registration fees and more about demonstrated safety knowledge and ability, sorta like with the drivers license.

How about law that makes these controversial features legal but increases the penalties for crimes commited with weapons like this? Thusly only affecting criminals and not the law abiding populace.

Originally posted by boogyman
Gun control is the only topic I agree with republicans on. In my opinion this is the one good thing to come out of the bush presidency

People have their hearts in the right place about this ban its just not effective though. These guns are no more effective for killing police officers then hunting rifles.
I am in favor of regulation for guns. Licenses are a necessity for dangerous items. However I think the license process should be less about expensive registration fees and more about demonstrated safety knowledge and ability, sorta like with the drivers license.

How about law that makes these controversial features legal but increases the penalties for crimes commited with weapons like this? Thusly only affecting criminals and not the law abiding populace.

Im all for harsher laws on people that use weapons in crimes. And laws that will really prevent guns from getting into the hands of criminals. The AWB did not do that. I am for Licenses and background checks and agree it should not be so expensive. Only rich people can go out and get these guns and it shouldnt be that way. What if only rich people could vote why should only rich people have the ablity to get these types of guns.

Originally posted by Quicksilver
THe UK and Austrialia are prime examples of why gun control does not work. You can argue about if the crime rate gone up or down but you all have heard from someoene directly effected by this dumb law.

I beg to differ, before gun laws their were several high profile massacres in Australia ie. Hoddle Street. After the laws gun crime is almost non existant, these laws do work. All guns do is allow people to kill more easily, it's different gettin up close with a knife than using a gun from a distance - it'ss more detached.
I think you'd fund that 99% of Australians feel they are safer with gun laws - I know I do. This doesn't mean I don't enjoy shooting because I do, when I get the chance up at our farm.

mad scientist man half your country is perfect for target ranges. You have alot of open area in Australia. Even if guns were legal in Japan they have no room for alot of ranges.

What are the gun laws like in Australia can anyone apply for one how does it work?

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
mad scientist man half your country is perfect for target ranges. You have alot of open area in Australia. Even if guns were legal in Japan they have no room for alot of ranges.

What are the gun laws like in Australia can anyone apply for one how does it work?

We can't get jack here unless you're a farmer. We can have bolt action rifles for target shooting, but the guns have to be locked up at the gun club, we can't take them home. I think it's a maximum of 10 years if your caught with an illegal firearm ( which they all are here ).

We have different permits which relate to the calibre of the gun ie. Class A, B, C.

Some farmers hid their weapons when the gun laws came into effect, not for any nefarious purpose, but because they likes them.

Up near our farm one farmer got angry and fired 20 rounds into town using plunging fire from about 3km away. A few holes in roofs but no injuries - he got 4 years - this was before gun laws.

[edit on 14-9-2004 by mad scientist]