We should scour the moon for ancient traces of aliens, say scientists

reply to post by watchdog8110

To counter your reply , whats the chances that all space based weapons will be banned ?

All space based weapons are banned.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by DJW001

Full spectrum dominance involves dominance in space. There is no way the military will risk not being able to defend its space based assets FROM SPACE in my opinion.

It’s politically sensitive, but it’s going to happen. Some people don’t want to hear this, and it sure isn’t in vogue … but—absolutely—we’re going to fight in space. We’re going to fight from space and we’re going to fight into space…
General Joseph W.Ashy
Former COMMANDER IN CHIEF U.S. Space Command

Take a look at this unclassified document from 1990. It is the literature from a National War College seminar. The following snippet is taken from the section on policy regarding space weaponisation.

USAF Vice Chief of Staff General Thomas S. Moorman Jr. said in a June 1996 speech: “Undoubtedly the most provocative subject in any discussion of the future of space is the subject of space weapons and the likelihood of their use. Here I am referring to the broadest categories: Space-based lasers to shoot down hostile ICBMs, space weapons that attack other satellites, or weapons released from space platforms that destroy terrestrial targets. Today, these kinds of systems clearly break the current thresholds of acceptability ... But the 21st century could well see a change”2.

This sentiment was echoed again by the commander in chief of U.S. Space Command, General Howell M. Estes III, in his comments to Congress: “Space remains on the cutting edge—support to our warfighter, even the potential for war itself, is moving from Earth into space”3. This outlook will likely shape U.S. space initiatives in the immediate future.

SOURCE: www.dtic.mil...

I could go into evidence regarding secret programs but I don't want to overstep the mark and do regard certain secrets as a good thing. Instead I'll turn to some media coverage...

Now, the United States is the Master of Space. It dominates as the owner and user of space systems, both civilian and military. "Full spectrum dominance" - control and dominance of land, sea, air and, more recently, space, is still the goal of some within the U.S. Defense Department. But what are the realities behind these aims? Trying to track down what the Defense Department is spending on space weapons projects is a tricky business.

SOURCE: www.cbc.ca...

reply to post by strafgod

Why would any alien race see our moon as a place of interest out of all the other places in the solar system?

Uhm,...... because it would be the most ideal location for a base of operations to study the planet Earth without being interfered with by humans. Just think about it for a moment.... It IS the most logical place for a base.

reply to post by Pimander

Full spectrum dominance involves dominance in space. There is no way the military will risk not being able to defend its space based assets FROM SPACE in my opinion.

I'm not saying I disagree with you. Only certain categories of weapons are specifically banned, and there is nothing to stop any nation from violating the treaty. I was replying to a post that seemed to be completely non sequitur.

My counter to the post is and was to show that those in charge do not necessarily wish to give up ALL of the info / advantages out of self preservation instincts . Pictures may be seen as not a big deal to assume they will release ALL , they can say they are going to release more in due time . Do they save the best for last ?

Going on past agreements between countries , a peace treaty regarding space based weapons and the history of treaties not being adhered to . Who has actually facilitated the distrust in the system ? The system did itself , so are we now supposed to believe everything that they say now is fact about the moon pictures ?

If a country can take the upper hand in protecting themselves through one way or the other they will . For ancient alien traces , who is to say that it being ancient was not from their own worst case scenario and decided to obliterate all traces as best they could . The ancient alien theorists and we are or were involved or evolved with and from them , some of us like no better to create wars . We couldn't get along then in records of history and we still cannot get along now .

.

Originally posted by DJW001
All space based weapons are banned.
en.wikipedia.org...

Guess it must be true if Wikipedia says so

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by Phage
Paul Davies is not an "LROC scientist". He is a professor and director of the Beyond Center.

Isn't a "theoretical physicist and cosmologist" a scientist? Isn't he working with LROC?

Yeah ArMaP but sometimes certain people feel the need to nitpick to distract the thread from the issue...

But all the skeptics can rest easy... seems they have put it over to SETI instead of us 'amateurs'

From email;

Mr. Schmidt,

You had copied me on your email to Prof. Davies, who sent the response below and asked if I would forward it to you, along with a copy of the paper, which is attached.

Best,

Carol Hughes
Public Relations

FROM PROF. DAVIES:

Thank you for your interest in our paper (attached). If you read the paper, rather than the news commentary, I think you will see that what we are hypothesizing is very different from what you suggest. First, we think there is no evidence at this time of any life beyond Earth, let alone intelligent life. My own position was argued in detail in my book The Eerie Silence. However, if we take the optimistic view that there are at least some planets in our galaxy on which intelligent life may have arisen, the possibility of alien technology in the solar system arises. We have in mind a probe, or a robotic mission. Given that the solar system is only 4.5 billion years old, whereas the galaxy is 13 billion years old, the probability per unit time of such a “visitation” is roughly constant over the lifetime of the Earth. Therefore, the expected time for a probe to arrive is about 2 billion years ago. In our paper we make the more optimistic assumption that a “visitation” might occur 100 million years ago. The probability of aliens, or probes, arriving during the time of human habitation on Earth is infinitesimally small. Therefore, we are most certainly not claiming that there are aliens living on the moon (or Mars) at this time, only that some trace of a “visitation” up to 100 million years old might survive in lunar conditions. They would not survive in Martian conditions due to weathering. Even so, we consider that any visitation of any sort is exceedingly unlikely. Our interest is in whether it is detectable, and how this fascinating idea may be used as an educational tool to interest young people in science.

We have not arranged any systematic search of the LRO database; it is our intention to let an organization like the SETI Institute take the lead on that, so I am simply not in a position to accept your kind offer of assistance, to evaluate the photographs you have already assembled. I hope this brief reply is helpful to you.

With regards,

Paul Davies

So that's that then... Good old SETI gets the task

Well at least I got the paper free

reply to post by zorgon

I shouldn't let it bother me. I do have time for Davies really, especially where he is supporting inter-disciplinary research. But....

It really tests my patience when estimates about likely ET visits to the Solar System and such like are presented like some kind of reliable timetable to base what is deserving of research on.

We have in mind a probe, or a robotic mission. Given that the solar system is only 4.5 billion years old, whereas the galaxy is 13 billion years old, the probability per unit time of such a “visitation” is roughly constant over the lifetime of the Earth. Therefore, the expected time for a probe to arrive is about 2 billion years ago. In our paper we make the more optimistic assumption that a “visitation” might occur 100 million years ago. The probability of aliens, or probes, arriving during the time of human habitation on Earth is infinitesimally small

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Right then, that's that. Lets ignore all the other theories and ideas put forward by scientists about possible/probable alien contact. Forget any possibility that some UAP might be alien probes or even more. Lets wind up MUFON, BUFORA and all the others. Forget the COMETA report and numerous other studies. I think we should base our research on that single paper. In fact, why don't we close the UFO and aliens forum and go home to bed? :shk:

Sorry, rant over.

reply to post by Pimander


Doesn't the probabilities of being visited by a probe (or whatever) increase as time goes by?

Why would it be more likely for a probe to arrive 100 million years ago than today?

I think he is doing what we call in Portugal "puxar a brasa à sua sardinha", which can be translated as something like "make the coals hotter under his sardine", meaning that he is trying to get some kind of edge over someone else.

Imo , those that think or believe there is no other life form out there . Might just as well have there head shoved their ^%$#&^ and be asking is there any intelligent life in there . End of my brief rant . Sry Mods if it to rude to be said , delete if necessary .

reply to post by zorgon

Guess it must be true if Wikipedia says so

I guess you didn't read my second post. It's not even a case of "Wikipedia says." I was just too lazy to hunt down the three or four extant space treaties across the Web. I'm not saying that those pieces of paper mean that there are no weapons in space.

Originally posted by ArMaP
Doesn't the probabilities of being visited by a probe (or whatever) increase as time goes by?

Of course they increase, unless there is something we don't know about the development of intelligent life. How nice to hear a voice of sanity through the madness.

Why would it be more likely for a probe to arrive 100 million years ago than today?

It wouldn't be more likely. However, it might suit somebodies agenda for people to believe it is scientific to think so - in my opinion.

I think he is doing what we call in Portugal "puxar a brasa à sua sardinha", which can be translated as something like "make the coals hotter under his sardine", meaning that he is trying to get some kind of edge over someone else.

I completely agree with you.

I happen to like my sardine cooked so, if you're checking up on our reaction Paul (and I know I would be), stop talking nonsense please.

Is it possible to out-search what has already been discovered? I agree we should scour the Moon, we should also scour the Solar System. Finding evidence on the Moon would be great! But will we be able to discover new findings from Earth?

reply to post by ArMaP

Missing data presented as if it was real data. Those images were created "on the fly", by using the images from the area selected by the user, and the old version of the program that created the image had that problem.

A very funny looking "image problem" then. Even more "humorous" that this problem occurred in the same spot from two different angles. Not to mention the "wrist-watch" error in the same crater area as well.

Originally posted by Morg234
A very funny looking "image problem" then.

Funny or not, it only happened in that system, the original images do not show any of that.

Even more "humorous" that this problem occurred in the same spot from two different angles.

Two different angles? What do you mean by that?

Not to mention the "wrist-watch" error in the same crater area as well.

Once more, it doesn't happen in the original photos, only in processed images.

Originally posted by DJW001
I guess you didn't read my second post.

No I got lazy

You obviously haven't read Slayers Star Wars thread

Originally posted by game over man
Is it possible to out-search what has already been discovered? I agree we should scour the Moon, we should also scour the Solar System. Finding evidence on the Moon would be great! But will we be able to discover new findings from Earth?

I'm not certain I understand your point because it's worded strangely but....

Arguably the strongest evidence available for the existence of aliens is the UAP record and may mean the search for SETA (search for ancient terrestrial artifacts) is academic. Some UAP are unexplained (especially in the 1940s when they are difficult to explain away as misidentified man made craft) and do appear to be technological and under intelligent control. The NARCAP database contains some strong evidence of this variety of UAP reported by credible witnesses backed up by radar etc. There are a number of hypotheses but, according to the COMETA report (written by a committee of high-level military analysts/generals and aerospace engineers/scientists) the simplest one that explains this phenomenon is the ET hypothesis.

Lots of times I have seen the question about why the UFOs/UAP are less visible these days. Assuming for the sake of argument an ET/ED origin, to me the answer to that question is obvious. The probes/craft are avoiding open contact. Considering our recent technological advances regular open appearances are now more recordable and potentially hazardous. Possibly for reasons of self preservation the devices/craft/beings are deliberately either scaling down visits and/or becoming more stealthy.

Yes, we may be able to find evidence from Earth - without even looking to other planets. We may already have it - in fact certain sections of military intelligence may be sitting on the proof but that is another story.

Having said that, I'm all for looking out there too. There are plenty of surprises in store out there IF (big if in this field!) off the record sources are not lying.

I have started this effort and found some interesting stuff though all of it may be simply rocks.

There are however some puzzling things like.

Astronaut pointing at one of the skull shaped rocks and then that area is dug up.

A bright blue color UFO.

And trying to uncover more of these.. You can head to My Post on Lunar Images

Originally posted by ArMaP
Doesn't the probabilities of being visited by a probe (or whatever) increase as time goes by?

Not necessarily. That would only apply if space faring civilizations continued to consistently develop and expand throughout the universe. But we only have one example of a civilization that has developed far enough for interplanetary travel/research (us), and know of none that have interstellar capabilities. Judging by the natural dangers of living on a rock spinning through space, along with the real possibility of causing our own demise in a number of stupid ways, most civilizations could die out along a standard curve before they send out workable, interactive interstellar probes.

As a result, the odds of us being visited by a probe would be roughly the same at any given time in history.

The only thing that might skew those odds are if the aliens were smart enough to send out automated Von Neumann type machines, which would go as far as they could, land on a planet or asteroid with suitable natural resources and materials, build a bunch of duplicates of themselves and fly off and repeat the process forever. Like a machine virus. Or an actual virus. However, taking into account a high failure rate, that still might not increase the odds over time of a probe reaching us.

Still... maybe we're the probe. Encapsulated DNA. Maybe we're the Von Neumann machines, packaged into a little bacteria or virus, lofted into space on asteroids that occasionally crash into planets. Then we slowly build and grow ourselves (electrochemical machines) over time, adapting to local conditions, to hopefully become intelligent enough to repeat the process all over again. This is a plan intended to take billions of years.

The ultimate goal? My guess it is the complete absorption of all matter and energy in the universe into a living, conscious matrix, which then has the ability to do a shoestring reboot via quantum observation and "create" itself from virtuality into reality. And it worked. Because we exist.

So there you go, folks. The answer to "why."

What if we find evidence of ancient lunar visitation... by humans?


Doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility to me considering the relatively short period of time it took to develop space flight within the tens of thousands of years of human civilization. Could have happened many times over. Learn... forget... learn... forget.