The Christmas Hoax: Jesus is NOT the "Reason for the Season"

Originally posted by LunaKat

Originally posted by gabby2011
[Many Christians who follow the way of Christ are persecuted. both spiritually by the evil forces.. as well as by humans.

This is not directed at Gabby but more in general to anyone. I keep seeing Christians say they are being persecuted? Yeah where, how? You're like the one of the largest if not the largest faith in the US. Christianity is constantly seeking to get laws that cater to them. How are you persecuted? Its the most pampered religion in the United States.

And the *season* is NOT about Jesus. One day is about him, just one day and that date is most likely erroneous.

You're forgetting about Christians all over the world. In any case Christians will be persecuted in the west too eventually.

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by LunaKat

This is not directed at Gabby but more in general to anyone. I keep seeing Christians say they are being persecuted? Yeah where, how? ...

You're forgetting about Christians all over the world. In any case Christians will be persecuted in the west too eventually.

You forgot to answer the
Where, how??

part of the question.

reply to post by absssssss


When my kids were growing up, we celebrated Christmas with an every-other-year thing...one year we would all go on a budget trip together, usually skiing, but also we went to Florida/Bahamas one year (all four of us in a little Ford ZX2, all the way in one go -- nearly 24 hours worth) the next we'd do "presents." I kept that up as long as I could. Now I can't afford the trips anymore.

Many times I shopped at Thrift Stores, and bought them simple, wooden toys that were not packaged and just placed beneath the tree -- those were the ones Santa had made in his workshop...no cardboard or plastic containers, no bows or paper, just little, simple, hand-made things. Once it started getting to the "latest craze", I no longer pretended Santa had brought them.

Now, with them out of the nest, we are more of a "whatever" group. All of us can choose to pick up some little thing, or not. It's cool, either way. Even so, there are feelings of "guilt" for not "measuring up" to the "generosity" of others in our family, but we 3 talk each other through it and assure one another that it makes no difference. What matters is that we are together.

The holidays and birthdays are SO MUCH less stressful that way. No, it's not always easy to remember to keep the "spending" in perspective, but I think my kids have a pretty good handle on what the message is supposed to be:

LOVE, and CHERISHING our loved ones.

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by LunaKat

This is not directed at Gabby but more in general to anyone. I keep seeing Christians say they are being persecuted? Yeah where, how? ...

You're forgetting about Christians all over the world. In any case Christians will be persecuted in the west too eventually.

You forgot to answer the
Where, how??

part of the question.

Too many to list. Globally, Christians are the most persecuted. It's not that hard to Google yourself. But I don't think the matter is what you are truly interested in, but rather to argue Christians aren't.

Originally posted by 547000

Originally posted by vogon42

You forgot to answer the
Where, how??

part of the question.

Too many to list. Globally, Christians are the most persecuted. It's not that hard to Google yourself. But I don't think the matter is what you are truly interested in, but rather to argue Christians aren't.
*****************************************************
Why is it so often I ask a valid question, just to receive and excuse rather than and answer?

Ok, if there are too many to list, how about just list three. Can you do that?
Or maybe just two?

reply to post by vogon42


Here

There are many links in there to satisfy your curiosity.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by vogon42

 

Here

There are many links in there to satisfy your curiosity.

Dude, this is just the side effects of your holy war. This is something you christians started a very long time ago....and are still keeping at it.

You take your bible and invade someone elses land, and now you want pity because they dont like you?

If thats not brainwashing, it certainly is short sighted.

Will your religion allow you to see that or are you to brainwashed?

..er...I mean are you so much better than them because some one told you your version is the truth, and you blindly believe them?

Originally posted by wildtimes
Even so, there are feelings of "guilt" for not "measuring up" to the "generosity" of others in our family, . . .

Oh - I ended that years ago. I bought everyone a pair of socks (nice socks) - - - and informed them "this is not a competition". To this day - I still buy everyone a pair of socks.

[What matters is that we are together.

Yes! This season - winter solstice - is really about the "Circle of Life". Earth beliefs are about: life/rebirth - food/crops.

My mom - bless her - raised me with quotes. Odd at time - but she did have some very good quotes.

One is: "If you are cold today - Damned! If I'm waiting till Christmas to buy you a warm coat".

I'm willing to share the season and celebrations with Christians - - even though they tried to usurp and squash beliefs with real (and honest) meaning for this time of year. Their basic problem is loss of control over this country.

reply to post by wildtimes


Christians don't take offense about such matters as the 25th of December. We know that in no place in the Bible is a date given for when Jesus was born, the only indication of a rough time of the year was when it was said that the shepherds were still in the fields which they would not have been in winter in December in that part of the world (so we know that the December time is wrong). Paganism has come into Christianity through the Catholic Church. Pope Gregory even changed the calendar by a couple of weeks (the calendar which we now keep so Christians unknowingly keep the Pagan fertility festival of Ishtar on Easter. The bible doesn't just tell us about the Sea Beast power (the Papacy) in Revelation 13 who received his seat and great authority from the dragon (Satan) for no good reason! The 25th of December is about paying homage vicariously to the Sun God, Lucifer!

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by vogon42

 

Here

There are many links in there to satisfy your curiosity.

Dude, this is just the side effects of your holy war. This is something you christians started a very long time ago....and are still keeping at it.

You take your bible and invade someone elses land, and now you want pity because they dont like you?

If thats not brainwashing, it certainly is short sighted.

Will your religion allow you to see that or are you to brainwashed?

..er...I mean are you so much better than them because some one told you your version is the truth, and you blindly believe them?

edit on 31-12-2011 by vogon42 because: typo

edit on 31-12-2011 by vogon42 because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-12-2011 by vogon42 because: (no reason given)

I pity you. When you die and meet God you'll be speechless. I've already had a nibble of heaven, and it's the most wonderful thing you are going to lose. You think it's brainwashing but I tell you: unless you seek God with all your heart you will lose everything.

I bet you're one of those hypocrites who supports freedom of religion when it comes to helping people of other faiths. Now it's commendable to violate this freedom?

Originally posted by 547000

I bet you're one of those hypocrites who supports freedom of religion when it comes to helping people of other faiths. Now it's commendable to violate this freedom?

edit on 19-1-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)

No where in my post did I say you are not allowed to practice your religion.

I simply stated your religion keeps up with this crusades thing, expect that other religions (whos land you are invading), will not like you.

Its a two way street. if you smack someone, don't run off crying persecution when they smack you back.

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by 547000

I bet you're one of those hypocrites who supports freedom of religion when it comes to helping people of other faiths. Now it's commendable to violate this freedom?

edit on 19-1-2012 by 547000 because: (no reason given)

No where in my post did I say you are not allowed to practice your religion.

I simply stated your religion keeps up with this crusades thing, expect that other religions (whos land you are invading), will not like you.

Its a two way street. if you smack someone, don't run off crying persecution when they smack you back.

Vogon.. you seem to want to blame all Christians.. or even Catholics for choices they did not make..
Thats like blaming all Germans for the choices that Hitler ,and some of His men ..and those that blindly followed made. Even some who made choices back then have regretted it, and seen the error of their ways.

There have been Holy wars all through History, and maybe some were based on solid reasoning...and some were lies told to the people and soldiers so a few could benefit from the lives they were willing to sacrifice for it.

But if you honestly think that there wouldn't have been wars without the catholic church your deluding yourself..
Just remember .. if you want to persecute God, and smack Him around.. His patience lasts only so long.

reply to post by gabby2011


I'm not the one here crying persecution.

I just gave the answer to it.

Q: why are christians persecuted in the land of the crusades
A: because christians started the crusades

NEXT
Q: Why does that dog down the street not like me? All I do is kick it once in a while.

Originally posted by vogon42
reply to post by gabby2011

 

I'm not the one here crying persecution.

I just gave the answer to it.

Q: why are christians persecuted in the land of the crusades
A: because christians started the crusades

Why did the Christians start the crusades?.. perhaps because they were being persecuted by the muslims?

Here is a little history on the subject from wikipedia.

The Holy Land is significant in Christianity because of the land's association as the place of nativity, ministry, crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, whom Christians regard as the Saviour or Messiah. By the end of the 4th century, following the Roman Emperor Constantine's conversion to Christianity (313) and later the founding of the Byzantine Empire after the partition of the Roman Empire, the Holy Land had become a predominantly Christian region.[8][9] Churches commemorating various events in the life of Jesus had been erected at key sites.

Jerusalem in particular holds a significance in Islam as it holds it to be the site of the ascension into heaven of the prophet Muhammad whom Muslims believe to be the foremost prophet of Allah and Jerusalem is often regarded as the third most sacred site in Islam. The Muslim presence in the Holy Land began with the initial Muslim conquest of Syria in the 7th century under the Rashidun Caliphs. The Muslim armies' successes put increasing pressure on the Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Empire which had originally claimed the region (part of the Eastern Roman Empire which the Byzantines inherited) as their territory – this included eventual incursions by the Seljuk Turks.

Jerusalem also holds historical and religious importance for Jews as both the ancient capital of their ancestral home and the site of the Western Wall, the last standing part of the Second Temple, the most sacred site in Judaism. Jews consider Jerusalem as their ancestral homeland, and had been visiting the city since its destruction in 70 CE[10] and its occupation in AD 136.

Another factor that contributed to the change in Western attitudes towards the East came in the year 1009, when the Fatimid Caliph al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah ordered the destruction of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. In 1039 his successor, after requiring large sums be paid for the right, permitted the Byzantine Empire to rebuild it.[11] Pilgrimages were allowed to the Holy Lands before and after the Sepulchre was rebuilt. The Muslims eventually realized that much of the wealth of Jerusalem came from the pilgrims; for this reason and others, the persecution of pilgrims eventually stopped. However, the damage was already done, and the violence of the Seljuk Turks became part of the concern that spread support for the Crusades across the Christian world.[12]

So before you start crying out persecution against the crusades.. perhaps you really need to understand why they began, and were indeed a slap back at persecution .

Originally posted by gabby2011

So before you start crying out persecution against the crusades..

I'm not the one crying persecution here.

READ the thread and you will understand.
This conversation is not even directed at you. It is an answer to 547000.
547000 asked a question, and I answered it.

If you will read, you will see it is simple as that.

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by vogon42

 

Here

There are many links in there to satisfy your curiosity.

Along with the crusades.

yea, gee, I wonder why people dont like this guy either....
German priest admits 280 counts of child abuse

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by vogon42

 

Here

There are many links in there to satisfy your curiosity.

Along with the crusades.

yea, gee, I wonder why people dont like this guy either....
German priest admits 280 counts of child abuse

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So you give me links to Christianity being the most persecuted religion..and I'm supposed to believe what because of that?

Yes.. I guess there is an anti Christ..and he is alive and working...

I won't deny that there has been terrible abuse from some leaders of the church, and they will no doubt have to answer to it before God.

There were terrible abuses done by some of the leaders of Judaism as well..and maybe still happen to this day.

Also.. we can't leave out those who have pagan gods .. how many of those sacrificied live children to their gods everyday.. to the point that the Virgin Mary appeared in Guadalupe to a church would be dedicated in her honor and these practices would be mitigated.

If you want to talk about child abuse vogon.. the ancient pagan worshipers were guilty of this as well.. as well as the satanic cults of today.

If we could only see who are really the most guilty of crimes against children ..our eyes may be opened to a little more truth, and a little less false persecution against everyone from a religion .

So vogon.. if I can give you solid proof that some members of wicca are guilty of crimes of perversion against children.. and some of these are very high priests and priestesses..would you start persecuting that religion as you do Catholicism?

Time will reveal all of the truth.. everything is being recorded.

Originally posted by gabby2011

So you give me links to Christianity being the most persecuted religion..and I'm supposed to believe what because of that?

Sigh........REALLY REALLY BIG SIGH.......
Gabby, pull your head out of the sand.....PLEASE.

Follow the thread, that link was provided by 54700 NOT by me.

Do you understand? I am not the one crying persecution here. 547000 is the one doing that, and 54700 is the one providing the link.

PLEASE re-read the past few posts, take your time. Then please feel free to address 547000 with your comments.
Or, decide to change your argument and ask me questions that are relevant to my point of view.

Originally posted by vogon42

Originally posted by gabby2011

So you give me links to Christianity being the most persecuted religion..and I'm supposed to believe what because of that?

Sigh........REALLY REALLY BIG SIGH.......
Gabby, pull your head out of the sand.....PLEASE.

Follow the thread, that link was provided by 54700 NOT by me.

Do you understand? I am not the one crying persecution here. 547000 is the one doing that, and 54700 is the one providing the link.

PLEASE re-read the past few posts, take your time. Then please feel free to address 547000 with your comments.
Or, decide to change your argument and ask me questions that are relevant to my point of view.

Ok..I see where my mistake was.. the link was provided by 547000..and he's correct.. Christians have been persecuted.

By the way my head is out of the sand.. (though I can get confused at times).. it is definitely out of the sand about things that matter most.

reply to post by vogon42


So converting people with their explicit consent is a crusade? Let's not even talk about the Middle East. What about India or Africa? No one is holding a gun to someones head and is saying "convert or die". These people are being persecuted because of insecurities of those who follow the native religion.