Midget subs sunk at Pearl Harbor. Base still not put on Alert?

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

I send you to - WAR IS A RACKET. Major General Smedly Butler. Chapter 2. Who Makes the profits.

"In the World War [I] a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows."

WAR IS A RACKET


The US had an agenda to enter the war..be it in 1915 or 1917..

originally posted by: andy1972
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

I send you to - WAR IS A RACKET. Major General Smedly Butler. Chapter 2. Who Makes the profits.

"In the World War [I] a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War. That many admitted their huge blood gains in their income tax returns. How many other war millionaires falsified their tax returns no one knows."

WAR IS A RACKET


The US had an agenda to enter the war..be it in 1915 or 1917..

Of course it had an agenda. The Germans had started sinking ships of every nation without any warning at all around the British Isles and they'd then doubled up on their stupidity by offering Mexico a large chunk of the South-West USA if they declared war. The US declaration of war came as no surprise to anyone with half a brain.

a reply to: Schkeptick


Having spent some time in the military it is logical to be open to the very real possibility that lack of attentiveness and incompetent behavior played a key role here.

Taken as a whole all the bumbling could be construed as something else.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: Schkeptick


Having spent some time in the military it is logical to be open to the very real possibility that lack of attentiveness and incompetent behavior played a key role here.

Taken as a whole all the bumbling could be construed as something else.

A lot of people tend to forget that in 1939 the US Army ranked 17th in the world in terms of size, with just 200,000 regulars and 200,000 National Guardsmen. As it expanded - and certainly after France fell - a huge number of men were enlisted over a very short time period. They got a lot right, but they also got a lot wrong. Don't forget that the British had almost a year of war to get the Chain Home and Chain Home Low networks perfected before it was significantly tested at the Battle of Britain. There's nothing like experience to ram lessons home.

Interesting discussion. But just to reiterate the Lusitania story.

"On May 1st, 1915 the British Naval cruiser “Lusitania” was scheduled for Liverpool, taking off from New York harbour loaded with 600 tons of explosives, 6 million pounds of ammunition, 1,248 cases of shrapnel shells, other war materials, and last but not least – American passengers. The German embassy in D.C. was fully aware of the war materials being shipped into England on the Lusitania and tried to warn American travellers.

German embassy officials attempted to place full-page ads in 50 U.S. newspapers reading:
“Notice! Travellers intending to embark on the Atlantic voyage are reminded that a state of war exists between Germany and her allies and Great Britain and her allies … travellers sailing in the war zone on ships of Great Britain … do so at their own risk.”
Due to actions taken by the U.S. State Department, 49 of those 50 newspapers never ran the ad. (??????)

Midday May 7th, off the coast of Ireland, the Lusitania was ordered to reduce speed, and “Juno,” its British military escort vessel, was ordered to withdraw. Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill knew German U-Boats were in the vicinity and purposely called off Juno, leaving the Lusitania a sitting duck. British commander Joseph Kenworthy, on duty when the ship was sunk, later revealed that her military escort was withdrawn at the last minute and her captain ordered to enter at reduced speed an area where a German U-boat was known to be operating. It is clear why Germany attacked this ship, and Britain would have done the same if U.S. munitions were being shipped to Germany. ‘The Germans, whose torpedo struck the liner, were the unwitting accomplices or victims of a plot probably concocted by Winston Churchill."


Cut a long story short, the Lusitania was a False Flag intended to be used to get the US into WW2. And history will tell us it worked. Just a pity all these people were betrayed by their own country and it's allies! Sacrificed so the US could make loads of money. When I say the US I mean the barstewards that created income tax and the Federal Reserve System in the US and UK! Surnames Morgan, Schiff, Rockefeller, Rothschild, Warburg etc and all those other psychos that are still manipulating everyone around into resource wars and land grabs!

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: PLAYERONE01
a reply to: Schkeptick

Sinking one midget sub in NO way predicted the coming attack.

well no, but was protocol followed. should some state of security not have been entered into. should some kind of reconnaissance not have been actioned.
and as for the age of computers comment that is a reach if i ever read one.

The USS Ward, which sunk that minisub radioed the sinking in, it just took a long time to get passed on up the chain of command. It was the captain's third day on the job (he was appointed to take command of the ship on December 5th) and it was his first command, so the next bloke up the chain of command wanted the report verified. Of course by the time it made it to Kimmel it was too late to do anything - he was in his quarters getting dressed to head into his office when the attack started.

Whats strange about this is that a message should have been kicked up anyway saying that they were trying to confirm a report of a sub being sunk. Still it could represent communication constipation.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg


Well you take the US Marine barracks bombing in Lebanon in the early 80s. Lets just say someone wasn't reading their intel reports or paying attention in general. Moving car bombs were in fashion and so had been French and English targets.

Besides the fact that people are known for not even heading direct warnings is well documented.

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: AngryCymraeg


Well you take the US Marine barracks bombing in Lebanon in the early 80s. Lets just say someone wasn't reading their intel reports or paying attention in general. Moving car bombs were in fashion and so had been French and English targets.

Besides the fact that people are known for not even heading direct warnings is well documented.

as a Marine during that time i have to say yes your right. it was found that the senior military officials and the Chain of Command were responsible for security failure. two things were the main reason, all they used for the control of traffic was concertina wire and the Marine sentries weren't allowed to have a round in the chamber or even a magazine inserted. which was part of the Rules Of Engagement at that time.

also many Marines hold a resentment towards Reagan and Weinberger for the non response to the bombing. and when Reagan said what he said in 1986, at least i did and do.

originally posted by: Deveron
Interesting discussion. But just to reiterate the Lusitania story.

"On May 1st, 1915 the British Naval cruiser “Lusitania” was scheduled for Liverpool, taking off from New York harbour loaded with 600 tons of explosives, 6 million pounds of ammunition, 1,248 cases of shrapnel shells, other war materials, and last but not least – American passengers. The German embassy in D.C. was fully aware of the war materials being shipped into England on the Lusitania and tried to warn American travellers.

German embassy officials attempted to place full-page ads in 50 U.S. newspapers reading:
“Notice! Travellers intending to embark on the Atlantic voyage are reminded that a state of war exists between Germany and her allies and Great Britain and her allies … travellers sailing in the war zone on ships of Great Britain … do so at their own risk.”
Due to actions taken by the U.S. State Department, 49 of those 50 newspapers never ran the ad. (??????)

Midday May 7th, off the coast of Ireland, the Lusitania was ordered to reduce speed, and “Juno,” its British military escort vessel, was ordered to withdraw. Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill knew German U-Boats were in the vicinity and purposely called off Juno, leaving the Lusitania a sitting duck. British commander Joseph Kenworthy, on duty when the ship was sunk, later revealed that her military escort was withdrawn at the last minute and her captain ordered to enter at reduced speed an area where a German U-boat was known to be operating. It is clear why Germany attacked this ship, and Britain would have done the same if U.S. munitions were being shipped to Germany. ‘The Germans, whose torpedo struck the liner, were the unwitting accomplices or victims of a plot probably concocted by Winston Churchill."


Cut a long story short, the Lusitania was a False Flag intended to be used to get the US into WW2. And history will tell us it worked. Just a pity all these people were betrayed by their own country and it's allies! Sacrificed so the US could make loads of money. When I say the US I mean the barstewards that created income tax and the Federal Reserve System in the US and UK! Surnames Morgan, Schiff, Rockefeller, Rothschild, Warburg etc and all those other psychos that are still manipulating everyone around into resource wars and land grabs!

I'm not sure where you got the above, but there's a lot wrong in it. RMS Lusitania was a civilian ship - the RMS stands for Royal Mail Ship. She wasn't in the Royal Navy and she certainly wasn't a cruiser as she had no guns mounted on her. The ship's cargo included 4,200,000 rounds of Remington .303 rifle cartridges, 1250 cases of empty 3-inch (76 mm) fragmentation shell casings, and eighteen cases of non-explosive fuses, all of which were legal under the Hague Convention and all of which cannot be responsible for the second explosion on her after the torpedo hit. The second explosion is now theorised to be a steam explosion from her boiler. HMS Juno by the way was not her escort. She was operating in the area and was in Cork when the Lusitania was sunk. In addition the Lusitania had slowed down because of fog, not because she had been ordered to slow by some nefarious order from the Admiralty, and even then she went from 18 knots to 15 knots, so she was hardly crawling along.
Finally if was a false flag then it was an unsuccessful one, because the USA didn't enter the war for another two years!

a reply to: hounddoghowlie


I was in during the same time. Before this event had even been practicing vest bomb security i.e. folks trying to get past security with body bombs.

originally posted by: hounddoghowlie

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: AngryCymraeg


Well you take the US Marine barracks bombing in Lebanon in the early 80s. Lets just say someone wasn't reading their intel reports or paying attention in general. Moving car bombs were in fashion and so had been French and English targets.

Besides the fact that people are known for not even heading direct warnings is well documented.

also many Marines hold a resentment towards Reagan and Weinberger for the non response to the bombing. and when Reagan said what he said in 1986, at least i did and do.

We did retaliate with some naval gunfire on key positions but that never made the news. But yea nothing large scale like kicking the S**t out of Hez.

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: PLAYERONE01
a reply to: Schkeptick

Sinking one midget sub in NO way predicted the coming attack.

well no, but was protocol followed. should some state of security not have been entered into. should some kind of reconnaissance not have been actioned.
and as for the age of computers comment that is a reach if i ever read one.

The USS Ward, which sunk that minisub radioed the sinking in, it just took a long time to get passed on up the chain of command. It was the captain's third day on the job (he was appointed to take command of the ship on December 5th) and it was his first command, so the next bloke up the chain of command wanted the report verified. Of course by the time it made it to Kimmel it was too late to do anything - he was in his quarters getting dressed to head into his office when the attack started.

Whats strange about this is that a message should have been kicked up anyway saying that they were trying to confirm a report of a sub being sunk. Still it could represent communication constipation.

Don't forget that Pearl Harbour was not seen as being at risk of attack at that time - the Philippines were seen as being far more vulnerable due to their being closer to Japan as well as the Japanese bases in French Indo-China. Hawaii was supposed to be unlikely to see any fighting, so there would also be the 'It can't possibly be happening here' mentality. And there had been a lot of false sightings of submarines in the area at the time - people were jumpy. The arrival of a Japanese fleet from an unexpected direction using a mass of carriers that included torpedo planes that shouldn't have been able to work in a harbour as shallow as Pearl (the Japanese put special wooden tailfin attachments on the fish to stop them from going too deep) was an understandable shock.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

I think the USA entered ww1 *Financially* in 1914.

And *Secretly*

a reply to: Logarock

i was a barracks baby, one of the special barracks. we never ever went on post with out a magazine in, there wasn't one in the chamber. but as you know it's a lot easier to pull the charging handle or the slide back than to pull one out of the pouch insert then lock and load.

we were put on alert once and had a direct threat for helo attack and incursions thru the gate for about a month. they even brought in cobras from cherry point. we still weren't allowed to have one in the chamber.

a reply to: hounddoghowlie

From what I understand they were shooting at the car but it was already past the gate and there were only two guys shooting.


By the way I did manage to get to the memorial down at 2nd MarDiv back after 02. Went out to RECON Beach, training areas. Lots of training going on, guys in the field. Got to see the Abrams in action for the first time.

a reply to: Logarock

from what i remember there were only able to lock and load and not fire, one was LCPl DiFranco.
and he is quoted as saying the guy looked at him and smiled.

i could be wrong, there are reports about it and most of the sentries that were on post if not all said by the time they were able to fire, the truck had already gone past and then hit the building.

a reply to: andy1972

"In the World War [I] a mere handful garnered the profits of the conflict. At least 21,000 new millionaires and billionaires were made in the United States during the World War.

Me thinks you are visiting conspiracy sites for your info.
According to tax returns for the years 1914-1917 here are the total number of returns with 1million or more.
1914 - 60
1915 - 120
1916 - 206
1917 - 141

So yes the war created a few new millionaires.
But not in the thousands.

You likely visit more websites when you shop for a new Ipad than when you look for conspiracy stats.

Relative of my dad's who died on the Lusitania. www.findagrave.com... ll&

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Yes the Lusitania was a civilian ship. That description I worded wrongly.

The sinking of the Lusitania was just the tip of the iceberg so to speak as it drew the US into War!

The media then manipulated everything after the sinking. Here's some info!

The US was drawn into World War I by the sinking of the Lusitania, a British ocean liner carrying American passengers that was torpedoed by German U-boats off the coast of Ireland, killing over 1,000 of its passengers.

What the public was not informed about at the time, of course, was that just one week before the incident, then-First Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill had written to the President of the Board of Trade that it was,
“most important to attract neutral shipping to our shores, in the hopes especially of embroiling the United States with Germany.”
Nor did reports of the attack announce that the ship was carrying rifle ammunition and other military supplies. Instead, reports once again emphasized that the attack was an out-of-the-blue strike by a maniacal enemy, and the public was led into the war.

Same ol False Flag style rubbish!

The US involvement in World War II was likewise the result of deliberate disinformation. Would we expect anything less?

And regarding Pearl Harbour?

Although the Honolulu Advertiser had even predicted the attack on Pearl Harbour days in advance, the Japanese Naval codes had already been deciphered by that time, and that even Henry Stimson, the US Secretary of War, had noted in his diary the week before that he had discussed in a meeting with Roosevelt,
“how we should manoeuvre them [the Japanese] into the position of firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves,”
...the public were still led to believe that the Pearl Harbour attack had been completely unforeseen.

Just last month, a newly-declassified memo emerged showing that FDR had been warned of an impending Japanese attack on Hawaii just three days before the events at Pearl Harbor, yet the history books still portray Pearl Harbor as an example of a surprise attack.

Yeah we knew all that! How about Vietnam? That was soooo obviously a False Flag Lie!

In August 1964, the public was told that the North Vietnamese had attacked a US Destroyer in the Gulf of Tonkin on two separate occasions. The attacks were portrayed as a clear example of “communist aggression” and a resolution was soon passed in Congress authorizing President Johnson to begin deploying US forces in Vietnam.

In 2005, an internal NSA study was released concluding that the second attack in fact never took place.

In effect, 60000 American servicemen and as many as three million Vietnamese, let alone as many as 500,000 Cambodians and Laotians, lost their lives because of an incident that did not occur anywhere but in the imagination of the Johnson administration and the pages of the American media.

Yep. So many innocent people died on all side of these Banker Wars!

And what did they die for? Honour? Nope! Freedom? Nope! For King and Country? Nope!

For money and power for the Jewish Bankers!

Israel and America love their False Flags, don't they?!

How The Media Manipulates us into War!

originally posted by: Deveron
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Yes the Lusitania was a civilian ship. That description I worded wrongly.

The sinking of the Lusitania was just the tip of the iceberg so to speak as it drew the US into War!

The media then manipulated everything after the sinking. Here's some info!

The US was drawn into World War I by the sinking of the Lusitania, a British ocean liner carrying American passengers that was torpedoed by German U-boats off the coast of Ireland, killing over 1,000 of its passengers.

What the public was not informed about at the time, of course, was that just one week before the incident, then-First Lord of the Admiralty Winston Churchill had written to the President of the Board of Trade that it was,
“most important to attract neutral shipping to our shores, in the hopes especially of embroiling the United States with Germany.”
Nor did reports of the attack announce that the ship was carrying rifle ammunition and other military supplies. Instead, reports once again emphasized that the attack was an out-of-the-blue strike by a maniacal enemy, and the public was led into the war.

Same ol False Flag style rubbish!

The US involvement in World War II was likewise the result of deliberate disinformation. Would we expect anything less?

And regarding Pearl Harbour?

Although the Honolulu Advertiser had even predicted the attack on Pearl Harbour days in advance, the Japanese Naval codes had already been deciphered by that time, and that even Henry Stimson, the US Secretary of War, had noted in his diary the week before that he had discussed in a meeting with Roosevelt,
“how we should manoeuvre them [the Japanese] into the position of firing the first shot without allowing too much danger to ourselves,”
...the public were still led to believe that the Pearl Harbour attack had been completely unforeseen.

Just last month, a newly-declassified memo emerged showing that FDR had been warned of an impending Japanese attack on Hawaii just three days before the events at Pearl Harbor, yet the history books still portray Pearl Harbor as an example of a surprise attack.

Yeah we knew all that! How about Vietnam? That was soooo obviously a False Flag Lie!

In August 1964, the public was told that the North Vietnamese had attacked a US Destroyer in the Gulf of Tonkin on two separate occasions. The attacks were portrayed as a clear example of “communist aggression” and a resolution was soon passed in Congress authorizing President Johnson to begin deploying US forces in Vietnam.

In 2005, an internal NSA study was released concluding that the second attack in fact never took place.

In effect, 60000 American servicemen and as many as three million Vietnamese, let alone as many as 500,000 Cambodians and Laotians, lost their lives because of an incident that did not occur anywhere but in the imagination of the Johnson administration and the pages of the American media.

Yep. So many innocent people died on all side of these Banker Wars!

And what did they die for? Honour? Nope! Freedom? Nope! For King and Country? Nope!

For money and power for the Jewish Bankers!

Israel and America love their False Flags, don't they?!

How The Media Manipulates us into War!

By 'memo' I think you're referring to the McCollum Memo, which was written in October 1940 and which said that it would be better if Japan committed an outright act of aggression against the USA, rather than the other way around. The only problem is that it doesn't mention an attack on Pearl Harbour and indeed only refers to the latter in terms of the need to move the US Pacific Fleet there. The White House was not expecting an attack on Pearl Harbour - it was thought that the Philippines or Guam were far more vulnerable and that in the former McArthur knew what he was doing. Of course the problem with that was that Dougout Doug was an incompetent blowhard. No memo has ever been discovered saying that the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbour. There were no references to such an attack in Japanese radio messages and indeed Kido Butai sailed under orders for a strict radio blackout - even the keys on their Morse transmitters had been tied down.

EDIT: And one final time - the Lusitania did not lead to war in 1915. The Zimmermann Telegram plus unrestricted submarine warfare tipped the USA into the First World War in 1917. Please address that point.