Police cleared for pepper-spraying haka

Police cleared for pepper-spraying haka

www.smh.com.au

SALT LAKE CITY: Police in the small Utah town of Roosevelt who used pepper spray and batons on spectators performing the haka at a high school American football game, have been cleared of wrongdoing.

It was the first time the police had seen New Zealand's native Maori challenge performed and took action against the fans, including a dozen people from a single family, one aged 4.

(visit the link for the full news article)

An investigation by the police of Roosevelt, 230 kilometres east of Salt Lake City, cleared their own officers of misconduct in the October incident and said their actions were appropriate because they feared a riot was imminent.
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But the Utah branch of the American Civil Liberties Union said the police report was "anything but objective" in a letter sent this week to Duchesne County Attorney Stephen Foote.

The ACLU was concerned that the decision to pepper spray during a cultural ritual may have violated the spectators' constitutional rights, wrote interim director Joseph Cohn.

He also noted that the police failed to consider a video of the haka or statements from 15 witnesses who said they did not feel threatened by the performance.

A haka, which usually lasts less than a minute, has been performed by New Zealand rugby teams as a pre-match challenge for more than 120 years around the world.

Read more: www.smh.com.au...

Bloody typical. Don't understand something? PEPPER SPRAY. Civilian looks at you funny? PEPPER SPRAY. Dirty Hippy? PEPPER SPRAY.

The Kiwi's have been doing the Haka before every game for 120 years, you would think the American cops would at least have half a clue before pulling out the riot control.



www.smh.com.au
(visit the link for the full news article)

I'm not sure which is worse in this story. The Police, once again going bonkers with pepper spray, or the idea this 'cultural ritual' was being done by fans at a high schoolFootball Game and not halted when they saw the cops weren't being entertained, but feeling threatened.

Wow... I looked up a couple videos of this online. Done on the field, it's impressive. Don't by a group of fans blocking a primary exit to a major sports event and facing police, well......I can kinda see where I sure would feel a bit threatened. I've never heard of such a thing at a high school game. Interesting....

Okay, the cops need spanked and made to write about 20,000 times 'I will not use pepper spray as a punitive measure and without imminent threat to safety present' Pepper Spray, Tasers...the whole 9 yards. This is getting out of hand! I want a police department with seasoned men who can mix it up and come from a life experience which builds that. I'm about tired of the college kids using techno-gadgets and chemical agents to torment and punish the public because they couldn't handle it any other way without 5:1 odds if their lives depended on it.

Once again.. Shame on the police. Knock off this use of chemicals like it's just a natural extension of using harsh language or something. It's just *WRONG*.

They were cleared because they are stupid, ignorant, and un-educated.

Now, I wonder how that kind of defense would work for the common man.

This is the problem created when intellect guidelines in hiring procedures require only persons with diminished capabilities be considered as potential candidates.

I suppose if a police officer has never seen a woman screaming in agony while giving birth this could easily be construed as inciting a riot. It certainly can be a frightening experience, so thank God we have law enforcement personnel so eager to beat the crap out of people doing things they don't understand, otherwise we might have women giving birth regularly. Wait...

For everybodys reference, this is an example of the Haka by the New Zealand All Blacks team:

Did anyone see Family Guy on Sunday??? At the end of the episode, Joe, the paraplegic cop, gave one of the out of town cops a taste of his own medicine. Earlier in the episode, the main guys were subjected to some police brutality, so at the end of the episode Joe shoots the cop in the leg. He goes off about how cops are supposed to be more understanding and compassionate than the average man. They're job is to protect and serve, not to abuse their power.

I thought it was a good message, and made me think of all the ridiculous police brutality threads I see on here.

That is awesome, I would definitely be intimidated by something like that... would also love to be apart of it someday. Shame on LEO's for pepper spraying something they probably don't understand nor have the honor to participate in.

I can see this thread going down hill quickly. So, I will get in early. I can understand the police officer's aprehension considerring someone had been yelling threats and cursing at the refs and players. Add in a group of guys performing a war challenge ritual in front of the winning team's only exit and things get dicey.

However, the cops should have spoken first instead of running in half cocked. From the article it sounds like they deserve some unpaid leave. The one wielding the baton probably needs non paid leave and a few months of desk duty with no overtime priviliges. I would also throw in a healthy dose of CIT training and an investigation by the state.

Part of being a police officer is being able to think and react quickly. Sometimes you need to realize that waiting it out is the best reaction.

reply to post by Kryties


Consider your self as the cop: high school kids are trying to leave (you can see them squeezing by past the Polynesian folks) and all of a sudden they form a line, block the way, and start some off the wall chant.

Cops come up and try and get them to move .. they have none of it and decide the "haka" is not finished so they continue...

Then get pepper sprayed.

I don't even have to put myself in the cops shoes .. if I was walking out of a field/arena whatever and some guys did that right in front of me I'd probably punch them in the face without even thinking about it.

Sure we can blame the cops from some small podunk town for not being "culturally aware" of some obscure taunting dance by some obscure sub-culture of a nation with the population half that of New Jersey

Or we can blame the retarded immigrants who went to a podunk towns football game and started screaming in peoples faces and got pepper sprayed in the face for their efforts.

I know I'm not very politically correct, but stupid people in general just piss me off.

Sheesh....



That's the only video of the actual event I can find.

I would say the use of OC, in this case, was appropriate.

The U.S. is the only country that preaches cultural tolerance to such an absurd degree. Any time I have -ever- been part of -any- group going to another country (hell, even other regions within the U.S.) - we have been given a "don't do stupid #" talking to. Be it for school, as part of a tour group, military - what have you. In the military, we go through entire cultural briefs so that we know not to get offended when Koreans cut in front of us and don't understand the concept of a line (they really don't - if you are not occupying the space directly in front of something - it is free game for anyone who can so much as somersault there).

Then, people come here and do crazy antics like this - attracting attention from the cops; and then we want to get blamed for being culturally insensitive.

I don't know what the police are like in New Zealand... but I've not met many uniformed officers that take kindly to being ignored. That's when they know what is going on. Compound not knowing what the hell these kids are trying to pull with the fact that the command to knock it off was ignored - and it should come as no surprise that OC and the baton came out.

The use of OC was appropriate, as was the baton swing - which was done at the thigh level and was not within hit-zones considered deadly force.

When an officer says: "stop" - they mean to do it now. Not 'finish when you feel like it.' If you just continue whatever it is you are doing - they are going to make it so that you acknowledge them and comply. Unless you plan to lead an armed revolution against the State - getting into a conflict with officers is probably not in league with your objectives.

Think with something other than your testicles.

I've been hit with OC. It's required for our training - and we had to go run a gauntlet after being spayed. It's delightfully unpleasant. Same with tear gas (though I'd rather spend an hour in a cloud of tear gas than a minute with OC in my eyes - both suck, but OC is next to black holes on suckitude, tear gas ranks as a hoover).

They get to go home with an interesting story to tell their friends and one of them might have a couple bruises. I'd have to check - but I don't believe any of them spent any time in jail - which is more than can be said for what would happen in most countries.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Sure we can blame the cops from some small podunk town for not being "culturally aware" of some obscure taunting dance by some obscure sub-culture of a nation with the population half that of New Jersey

I dare you to walk up to a Kiwi and describe his country that way, I guarantee it will not be a pleasant meeting.

Or we can blame the retarded immigrants who went to a podunk towns football game and started screaming in peoples faces and got pepper sprayed in the face for their efforts.

I know I'm not very politically correct, but stupid people in general just piss me off.

You are clearly clueless of other cultures. The Haka is a well respected tradition that has been performed for over 120 years, to call it 'obscure' and the people who performed it 'retarded immigrants' just shows how culturally insensitive and closed off from the outside world you are.

Originally posted by Kryties



The Kiwi's have been doing the Haka before every game for 120 years, you would think the American cops would at least have half a clue before pulling out the riot control.

Unfortunatly, this is where your rational thinking falls flat on its arse. Becasue American cops do not have half a clue. They truly don't. (nor do UK cops btw) They are pathetic surplus human scum.

reply to post by Kryties

I dare you to walk up to a Kiwi and describe his country that way, I guarantee it will not be a pleasant meeting.

Not concerned with the amount of time and resources it will require to track down such a small and insignificant population of people.

But if I ever get the opportunity, I will be sure to send you a copy of his medical bills.

You are clearly clueless of other cultures. The Haka is a well respected tradition that has been performed for over 120 years, to call it 'obscure' and the people who performed it 'retarded immigrants' just shows how culturally insensitive and closed off from the outside world you are.

I've never heard of it.

Nor have many other Americans.

It is pretty #ing arrogant to go around presuming the rest of the world knows about your pre-game saber-rattling routine. It's pretty stupid to block traffic and do it while staring down a bunch of cops.

It's not even about the culture. These people were blocking traffic, for one. They were also assuming an aggressive posture. The police on duty have a responsibility to the community to keep bad things from happening. People are known for getting quite excited and violent over sporting events (people beat the hell out of each other over pre-school tee-ball games, for God's sake).

You have a group of people who start blocking traffic and chanting in an aggressive posture.

That's not the time to be playing diplomat and find out what is going on. It's the time to act and get them to knock that # off. When they don't comply with verbal commands to stop - you aren't really left with a whole hell of a lot of alternatives.

reply to post by Acidtastic

Becasue American cops do not have half a clue. They truly don't. (nor do UK cops btw) They are pathetic surplus human scum.

I'm curious to hear you elaborate upon this comment.

do you really want me to? I detest the police, I truly hate them with evey single fibre of my being. They stand for fear and hatred, they inflict pain and suffering on innocent people time and time again. They are a law unto themselves and they see the public as nothing more than pawns who they get to push around. They are bullies, they protect the goverments, not the people.

THEY ARE SURPLUS SCUM.

I will NEVER respect them, until they act respectfully. And they are far, far from doing that. I could never trust a police officer, never. I will never speak to one as a human being, becasue I do not see them as human, they are a sub species who thrive on intimidation and threats. How can anyone respect that?

edit- and before someone presumes I must be a criminal to have such hatred for the filth, I'm not. I was arrested a couple of times in my teenage years and I wasn't mistreated at all. I have seen though, many many times, police batter people for no reason, both young and old, and I hate them for it.

Originally posted by Aim64C
Not concerned with the amount of time and resources it will require to track down such a small and insignificant population of people.

Troll.

But if I ever get the opportunity, I will be sure to send you a copy of his medical bills.

Clearly you have never had the pleasure of meeting a Maori Kiwi. Good luck with that.

I've never heard of it.

Nor have many other Americans.

But I guarantee most of the rest of the world has. That was kind of my point in the OP, how stupid and closed off can some Americans be?

It is pretty #ing arrogant to go around presuming the rest of the world knows about your pre-game saber-rattling routine.

I'm Aussie. The Haka is Kiwi. LEARN YOUR COUNTRIES - oh that's right, Americans don't feel the need to know about the rest of the world.

It's not even about the culture. These people were blocking traffic, for one. They were also assuming an aggressive posture.

Aggressive posture? The Haka is a cultural tradition. Please learn some culture, if you can bring yourself to admit that there is a world outside America.

Thank you for showing your complete and utter ignorance to anything that is not American.

The Maori Haka is a greeting. It is traditionally not performed as a threat.

Unfortunately the NZ Rugby teams have used it to intimidate the opposition, but that was NOT its traditional purpose.
After the haka, people were greeted by rubbing noses..that is nose to nose, not grabing the nose and rubbing it.

Interestingly, I believe the Native Americans also had a nose rubbing tradition as a welcome... Incredible 2 different tribes 10,000+ miles apart, have similar cultures.......Maoris also have Totem poles, and long Huts.

Dont upset the Samoans!!!....The Rock is part Samoan.....The "If You Smelllllllll etc"...badazz Woopin Part.

reply to post by Acidtastic

They stand for fear and hatred, they inflict pain and suffering on innocent people time and time again.

Please, share with the class.

They are a law unto themselves and they see the public as nothing more than pawns who they get to push around.

This would be an interesting story to hear.

They are bullies, they protect the goverments, not the people.

This is a matter of perspective. The People put into place the institutions of government. That government came with restrictions on its power and methods by which it is to operate and function (official polling procedures, for example).

Protecting the function of government within reason is protecting the People and their ability to self-organize and govern.

Or, let's take this case, for example.

How were these officers to know that these individuals were not about to assault spectators?

Let's say the police decided not to act, and just let things go (we wouldn't want to upset anyone). Then, these guys end up wailing on several spectators from the winning team. How would the officers be viewed, then?

My question, were I a member of that community, would be to the tune of: "What are we paying police officers for? Why were they letting these guys get all riled up and behave in a threatening manner?"

THEY ARE SURPLUS SCUM.

Well, if it's any comfort to you, the feeling is likely mutual. Though I can't speak for the police.

I will never speak to one as a human being, becasue I do not see them as human, they are a sub species who thrive on intimidation and threats. How can anyone respect that?

I can't say I've had any experience to support this.

Most of my training has come from Gunner's Mates and Master-At-Arms who serve as heads of their police departments and SWAT teams. It's not uncommon for us to review the same sorts of incidents that people on these forums get all excited about and compare them to our own training.

For example - I noticed that these people were obviously bunching up and loitering in the exit passage for some time before they actually started chanting and drew the attention of the police officers. We'd be getting told: "This is something to look for. If you see something like this - go over, be diplomatic, and ask them to clear out of the passage so people can move through. It's likely if the officers would have been more alert, the entire situation could have been avoided."

It's one of those instances where the officers are justified in their use of OC and the baton - but not beyond criticism for missing obvious indications something was about to go down.

I'll put it to you this way. My training manual (for a military course, no less) highlights on the importance of communication and the psychology of communication. Early and proper communication can often defuse potentially hostile situations and, most importantly - avoid confusion and escalation/panic on the part of others. With that, however - we are being trained to deal with people who continue to resist and/or be a threat. Once you reach that point - we're not there to be nice or to coddle you.

Respect goes two ways. You're blanket-judging a lot of police for reasons I don't entirely follow. You, honestly, never have to like a cop so long as you live. However - if you cannot respect their directions to you ... then they are going to respond by enforcing them.

There are cases were officers give unreasonable directions - in which case, I encourage you to file complaints. I always watch officers closely when I see them. I've been through quite a bit of the same training they have, and will report badge numbers who behave inappropriately, demonstrate poor weapon discipline, etc.

In all, though - one of the areas we highlight on quite often deals with how we are perceived. Placing our hand on the grip of our side-arm is a natural and comfortable thing for those of us who wear them. It's also intimidating as all holy # to be on the opposite end of that, even though we're not intending to. Crossing the arms (something I do often because I'm thin, have long arms, and like to keep them supported and close to warmth) is also viewed as intimidating or condescending.

The uniform, itself, can be quite intimidating for many people. This was the case with me for a long time, and something I struggled with early in the military. The ranks, themselves, were intimidating as all holy hell.

It's like "Matrix Syndrome" or something. Any time someone in a uniform speaks, they may as well start it with: "Mr. Anderson..."

Its pretty obvious that citizens need to meet up once a week and educate their towns and form citizens counsels and then meet with everyone and fire people nonstop, and take actions. For example if we actually got together and had that kind of unity, things like this would be cleared up, or the vast majority of citizens would withhold taxes.

I can't stand hearing the injustices, knowing the solutions, that have always existed and always had to be practiced, to ensure corruption ends, but no one does them.

Then we'd never hearing any of these stories again.

reply to post by Aim64C


It's one thing to point out that perhaps they were not doing the right thing by moving on, it's quite another to call them a "small and insignificant population of people" that is not worth your time and that just because Americans don't know about the Haka that means nobody else in the world does either. That stinks of arrogance and ignorance and, quite frankly, makes me convinced you are just another ATS troll.

Go flex your tough guy American muscles elsewhere, preferably somewhere where the rest of us don't have to watch for fear of projectile vomiting.