Do we really need the Police?

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

Text The reason we have the problems we do today, whether it be with Law Enforcement, or government, or military is that we allowed them to become like this. It is apathy and complacency on the part of the regular citizen that has caused all of these problems.

I especially agree with this.

In a world in which people need basic necessities such as food, clothing and shelter there will always be crime. If you were to eliminate those necessities you will see a dramatic drop in crime. Police are mostly around to keep the status quo in check (which is dictated by those with real power) and to shield the haves against the havenots. They also serve to protect the state. Every society for the most part need enforcers but there is a thin line between keeping the peace and stepping on civil liberties. If we had a more cooperative society rather than a dog eat dog one things would also be quite different. Shame is a great prevention of crime when the individual knows that his actions will affect the name of his family (like in Japan) and his reputation. Blacklisting and exile also are fine methods to keep things in check.

reply to post by theovermensch


EMS yes we need them, Fire Department yes we need them, SWAT Teams yes we need them, Police no we dont the world was perfectly fine before they were created and was still under OUR control. Police are for people who want to sacrifice their freedom for security and that's never a good thing.

We dont need police we need guards and traffic enforcement.

I think a lot of the reason people have issues with police are that they are just like any other segment of the population......some are nice, some are butt holes.
However, since they are cops, the only ones you remember are the butt holes.

Think about it, if you talk to half a dozen cops, and five of them are nice, which one are you going to remember.
ANSWER - The one who treated you like crap ( he represents a mere 16% of the PD in this example)

A couple years ago my wife and I were drinking coffee and chatting at about 5am. Someone (looking rather suspicious) walked by our bedroom window. My wife (I know....not a good decision on her part) stepped out into our back yard. This individual was out of her view (down a small hill), but still within my view. He began walking towards her, and reached for a weapon under his shirt....I did not see what he was carrying because he stopped when I threw open the bedroom window, and chambered a round in my deer rifle. My wife came back in side and called PD, the individual stayed put (in my sights) until PD arrived. PD cuffed him and took him away, telling me he was wanted on a few other charges.

For this reason I'm glad PD exists. They might not have been there the exact second they were needed, but at least this scum is no longer wondering around my neighborhood.

Originally posted by vogon42
For this reason I'm glad PD exists. They might not have been there the exact second they were needed, but at least this scum is no longer wondering around my neighborhood.

They came to do something you were already in the process of doing and could have completed on your own had they not made it a crime to perform that task on your own.

In your situation, like in so many situations, they played taxi driver.

It's like saying you were glad the supermaket had a bag boy because you didnt want o bag your own. You could have. You were in fact holding bag in hand and ready to place produce in it. But then at the last second the great bag boy swept in and saved the day by dropping that produce in the bag for you.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

They came to do something you were already in the process of doing and could have completed on your own had they not made it a crime to perform that task on your own.

In your situation, like in so many situations, they played taxi driver.

True. Just simply doing what any man would do, defending my family. If he had taken about two more steps he would have "grown some holes", but he decided to stop.
I'm glad the PD taxi arrived. After 11 years in the military I prefer to come home and live a peaceful life....so if PD can haul him away instead of me having to deal with it....I like that.

reply to post by definity


yes these are all crime police officers commit

Of course we need the police.

Who's going to knock on your door and tell you Johhny got shot by a drug addict at the local 7-11. Or, your daughter was found raped and murdered under a bridge in the next state over while making her way home from college when she suddenly had a flat tire in a remote area. By the way, good luck finding the perpetrater on your own. Oh, your father-in-law who disappeared from the local nursing home......let the neighbors look for him. What....you say you hear a female voice screaming for help in the 10 level parking garage while you are arriving to shop for Christmas presents? No worries, call Macy's and let them know you think someone is in trouble and needs help. And when the perpetrater who murdered your daughter is found and is in court for his arraignment...and escapes because no one is escorting him and he isn't in handcuffs, wave all friendly like as he is fleeing.

Short Answer: Yes.
2nd

reply to post by theovermensch


You remove the Police, something far more evil takes their place. It is that simple. Anarchy is the product of immature and unreasonable minds. Most Anarchists are just plain old fashioned Sociopaths and Criminals. The less Police, the more crimes they would commit.

Most of us never interact with the Police, because most of us don't engage in crime or violence. Those who have constant Police issues usually lie about it and pretend they are not the cause. We all know what they are, they are only talking to their own peanut gallery.

reply to post by Blaine91555


The absence of police does not equate to anarchy.

Certainly retooling police into a presence which comes when called and only for what's called like fire departments doesnt equate to anarchy.

We dont have firemen wandering the streets looking for excuses to throw you to the ground and confiscate your property. There's no reason police should be. If they havent been called and there isnt a victim then what's the point of their presence on a scene?

Rather than simply come when called they endlessly seek out reasons to justify their presence and ever-growing operating expense. Every Mayberry apparently needs their AR-15's, hovercraft and armored vehicles and they have to justify that expense with fear-mongering and nonsensical conclusions like "it'll be ANARCHY!!"

For the record, you'll probably just call me a liar, my only interactions with police have been in a professional capacity regarding training and recreational capacities regarding competitions along with some friends and family who are involved at various levels of law enforcement. Most of them, with whom I have had direct interaction, are sadistic imbeciles who have no business protecting or serving anyone. I have not yet been on the "wrong side" and I knock on wood everyday that I never am which given that an anonymous tip is all that's needed to throw your life into turmoil any one of us can be. Even yourself.

Perhaps I'm fortunate to live among civilized people and never have had to feel the fear that lunatics running wild will at any given moment eat my flesh and rape my dog so my ability to relate to this perceived need or usefulness of police is undoubtedly hampered.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by spy66

 

Actually you don't need to change a thing if you know what laws are legal, and which ones are lawfull.

There is a very big difference between the two.

I'll link Ebook here, take it as you will, it's for informational purposes only, I do not suggest you follow what is said, but it gives you a damn good understanding of how your rights have been trampled on and how you've been lied to about what your rights are and how you can get them back.

Read at your own risk.

Freedom Is More Than a 7 Letter Word

Enjoy.

~Keeper

edit on 12/6/2011 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)

edit on 12/6/2011 by tothetenthpower because: (no reason given)

Thanks, that book was a great read.

You say we really dont have to do anything?

After reading that book, and by considering how implemented people are to the system that governs us. Human rights have a long hard road a head if it.

The democracy, the common understanding of law among the majority in the population, will judge people insane for standing up to their human rights.

There is a reason why these fictional laws have law enforcers. But i do agree to the principles mentioned in the book. To bad people dont have the will or are to afraid to face the system. To stand up to their own rights. But that is because most people dont know what their true rights are. And can there by be controlled to comply to what is presented of law to them.

Its to bad that some people mock these people for their effort.


Again; thanks for sharing this book.

According to the legal system set up in Exodus, Numbers, Leviticus & Deuteronomy, Israel had no police or jails for hundreds of years and had a stable and largely law abiding society.

I think that it is a bit like the war on drugs. It always escalates, and the crime & drugs never abate.

But if the drugs were simply not profitable, then crime would have to go elsewhere. The "prohibition" stance is obviously not working, yet no-one calls out the politicians and police (who also profit from it).

When I was much younger and living in Sydney Australia, I had occasion to go out stargazing with members of the Sutherland Amateur Astronomical Society (I think that's what it was called).

To escape the light pollution caused by the city, we chose some bushland at Menai near the National Park. Close to the city for convenience but far enough away to overcome the light issue and make the "seeing" good.

Our position also happened to be about 500 meters

in from the main road down a small dirt road, in a clearing on top of a rise. It was also less than a kilometer from the Lucas Heights nuclear facility too.

About 1 AM the lights of a police car slowly snaked down the dirt road to our little group with our telescopes set up and most people going about their observational business or sharing a particularly interesting view.

The police officers exited from the car and sauntered (in the way that all police seem to saunter) over to our group and there ensued the following dialog:

POLICEMAN1: "What are all you doing here?"

ELDERASTRONOMER: "We are the Sutherland Amateur Astronomical Society and we are having an observation evening."

POLICEMAN2: "What, out in the bush, in the dark, at night?"

... needless to say, my respect for the police took a dive that night from which it has never recovered.

I was also an acquaintance of Sally Anne Huckstep who was drowned in a pond in Centennial Park, in Sydney by Detective Roger Rogerson and co. one night. Of course, I have no evidence.

Good Cops are what stop the firms and gangs taking over.
OK they have already taken over at the highest levels,but Cops work at the street level.
They are the people who will find someone who has attacked you if they can.
And some will work all hours until they catch a murdering lowlife who should be killed-and then will show professional restraint by locking them up.

Instead of beating the living you know what out of them.

Could you do that?
Not sure If I could,which is why I could not be a good cop if I tried.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Why would I call you a liar I'm simply responding to the question posed in the OP.

I was influenced on this topic by visits to villages in Mexico away from the tourist area's. It's been some time ago, way back in the seventies in fact, but what I saw still applies.

They literally had no Police. The person with the most people and best weapons was for all intents and purposes a Dictator. It was basically gang rule and each village had its own character depending on who or what group had the power.

Much of the Middle East is also in the same boat and we see where that leads.

As to the nature of those who go into Law Enforcement you have a point. The Criminals and those who want to be Police are basically the same people on different sides.

I've found two kinds of people in business and social interactions with members of law enforcement. Those who love being Police and who's attitudes as you mention troubled me. The second group are those who hate their jobs but see it as a duty. They were and are quite different.

I know, I don't just think, I know that if you remove the Law and Law Enforcement from the equation that anarchy would ensue. There will always be a dangerous element among us that are too dangerous to not contain. Absent the rule of law, you are left with citizens handing down their own sentences while playing judge, jury and executioner. That would lead to gang rule which would replace the state of anarchy very fast.

Whether we like the Police or not, they are absolutely necessary to society. Yes they need to be carefully monitored and kept on a short leash. I can agree they go to far. Even so we are better off with them than without them.

One need only consider the fact that the Police would be almost immediately replaced with gangs who would rule their little Kingdoms as they do in Mexico to understand that the product of no Police is far, far worse than the the indiscretions from a small number of them.

If that were to become the case here, I would immediately pack my bags and move to a country with the rule of law. The alternative would be so dangerous that I'd be a fool to not do so.

Only the rule of law makes commerce and progress possible in a society. Without it we would devolve and the mayhem that ensued would destroy us. History teaches us that over and over again.

Yes, we need the Police.

Reply to post by chr0naut

I've had my share of cop conversations that went that way.

Early on I would chuckle thinking they were making a joke. Then the blank stares made me realize they really were that confused and lost.

I've seen family lose at least 30 points off their IQ's after the academy.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by theovermensch


The next time a college dorm catches on fire, I'll just stay at headquarters instead of running in to a burning building.

Next time a business owner asks for somebody to patrol his parking lot because he has had a problem with gangs vandalizing his property, I'll stay in the office.

The next time a woman calls crying because her ex-boyfriend is trying to break in her house, I'll stay at headquarters.

The next time I see a guy driving with no headlights and crossing the yellow line at 2am I'll just say, not my problem.

The next time I hear gun shots in a closed park that college students use as a shortcut to their dorms, I'll run away instead of running in to the park.

The next time I see a ten year old getting smacked around by their father I'll say, let people work it out amongst themselves.

When I find out about a 13 year old girl getting pimped out to support her parent's drug habit I'll say, she could change the situation if she wanted too.

You're right, society doesn't need law enforcement. The strong will never prey on the weak and everyone listens to reason and logic. So, we have no problem with crimes against persons or humanity.

reply to post by theovermensch

They were not just speaking to me, why should I have to put up with two plain clothes Police bailing me up as I leave a Mall for no good reason?

I can give you one good reason. The police probably received vague information regarding a shop lifter or other criminal. A lot of times the description police receive is, incomplete to be polite. It usually sounds something like, "he was a young black male in baggy blue jeans wearing a green baseball cap," or "it was a middle aged white male, a little chubby, wearing blue jeans and a light colored shirt."

Do you know how many people in the mall would meet either description? More than a few people meet the average witness description. Then when you start approaching different people that match the description and are acting unusual people start crying about harassment. I'm trying to find the $500 watch somebody stole, but all I get is grief and attitude. Usually it comes from some guy telling me how outraged he is that I would dare believe he stole anything. The funny thing is the criminals say the exact same thing.