The ULTIMATE expression of ignorance -- "Pics or it didn't happen"

Originally posted by Scott495
I can think of plenty of examples of alot more ignorance than someone asking you to proove your statments.

too many nutjobs making all kinds of crazy claims and I for one support pics or it diddnt happen!

There are "nutjobs" as you say (the "Allison Kruses" of the world do exist, unfortunately), but I think they are the minority. I think most UFO sightings are honest sightings by honest and mentally stable people.

HOWEVER, those honest and mentally stable people could just as easily be mis-identifying an otherwise identifiable object as a UFO.

reply to post by Visiting ESB




Wait, so let me get this straight....now we have to say "Courts or it didnt happen?"

All jokes aside, one thing I've learned on ATS is that even if I strapped a GoPro cam to my head and was abducted by an ET craft, documented the whole thing, and even returned with a chip implanted in me that I had a doctor remove, developed some strange disease related to extreme doses of radiation, and passed a polygraph test......there would still be members on here who would cry foul. Its a shame to waste a brain on being closeminded. Yet its a rampant part of the whole conspiracy culture.

Who are we, mere human beings, to think so highly of ourselves and arrogantly assume we have the universe and all its wonders figured out?

If the universe is limitless, does that not also mean there are limitless possibilities?

reply to post by WhiteDevil013


Actually, this whole thing is a direct result of generations of folks who are part of the conspiracy culture. Those types requirements, for better or worse, will always be a part of the culture, because of egos, and money. Those who aren't there for the egotism, or the money, don't have a dog in that hunt, but are still subject to the "laws and rules" set up by those who do have the dog, and it's in the hunt.

Beside that, most of the folks who are strapped to their keyboards are subject to their perceptions of what reality and technology may be. In other words, because I can now take a "multi-trillion" pixel picture in such detail that at 100,000 feet distance that I can see black heads, then it follows that I must have it, in order to have the "proof". In the 1940's it was black and white pics, in the 50's to now it's video on tape, or chip... Or absolutely error free photos with all the absolute undeniable details in attendance.


Even then, someones gonna scream conspiracy, scam, the planet Venus, or bug on the lens. Unfortunately, it's the nature of the beast here on a conspiracy forum.

Originally posted by WhiteDevil013

...Who are we, mere human beings, to think so highly of ourselves and arrogantly assume we have the universe and all its wonders figured out?

If the universe is limitless, does that not also mean there are limitless possibilities?

This is well and good, but what does this have to do with trying to determine what a person may or may not have seen in in regards to a specific UFO sighting?

Sure -- the universe is full of possibilities, and if a person saw a light in the sky that they think is totally unexplainable, then one could speculate that the light was some sort of alien craft (or something equally fantastic). However, that speculation is quite meaningless without corroboration that the sighting was in fact unexplainable.

I'm not about to say "Yes -- the universe is full of possibilities, so every person who says they saw a UFO actually DID see an alien craft"...

...It would be very closed-minded of me to think that way -- to NOT consider it may have been something else, and instead just blindly believe it was an alien craft. I don't blindly believe anything. That is the definition of close-minded.

If your making a claim where it would have been just as convienient as not, and your claim is highly questionable, pictures would be the most likely way to establish your claim Just like Osama Ben Laden, just who in their right mind is going to take the government's word, the government notorious for disinformation and outright lying? Tell me...! It was just too convienient to say no pics and 'we dumped him at sea', when it's just as possible there never was any Osana Ben Laden capture/kill at all. There are crowds of people who seem to post fabulous stories, here alone, on ATS that must be trying to bide away boredom. Every week, or even a couple times a week, there's some story of a Comet or asteroid or space craft or "Proof" "undeniable" "Must see", what have you, and the site has lost a lot of credability. Of course anyone that registers can post a topic or thread, similar to Wikipedia and have their info discerned as bunk, or as truth. There is far too much fabrication and tall tales told here to just take every story at face value, tell me I'm wrong. So, when it's appropriate I will continue to use the phrase you dislike so much. You have the right to protest, and I have the right to say "no pics, it didn't happen" . Get used to it, this is a public forum, and a too cool avitar adds no credability what so ever.

I also take exception to your arrogant demeanor, as though you speak out of authority much as a Psychologist of sociologist might. Do you have any training in behavioral circles? Once you disassoiate yourself from those of whom you speak and take a stance of superiority, at that point you alienate.......

Originally posted by ZeussusZ
reply to post by Visiting ESB

 

can you really trust a picture these days anyway?

Absolutely not... just look at Obama's "birth certificate" ;-)

reply to post by Visiting ESB


Pictures do not clearly prove anything these days with the availability of sophisticated image manipulation software.

Pictures do not determine whether something occured or not.

Niether does someone's word.

In the case of purported crafts of extra-terrestrial origin, or exo-biology-alien beings present on earth.....

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and we do not have that yet.

What is required is physical, scientifically verifiable proof ideally corresponding to imagery and witness testimony.

Short of that, what you have is simple claims...whether it happened or not...it will remain a claim without sufficient proof.

what I have seen is ..

(1) Pics of terrestrial objects claimed to extra-terrestrial
(2) Unidentified objects, which are ...well...unidentified.
(3) Hoaxed pictures
(4) Credible testimony
(5) Uncredible testimony
(6) Psuedo scientific proof...something hot was here...this DNA is unusual...none of it speaking to exclusive extra-terrestrial origin.

But I have yet to see a package of indisputable evidence that would convince me that ETs have visited the planet earth.

Clear indisputable scientific evidence...

All of that said, I suspect it has likely occured...suspect...it makes logical sense to me that there are other life forms on nearby exo-planets and given the age of the universe that some of them have advanced far beyond us technologically...but those who claim "Proof!" are dishonest.

Proof has yet to be provided. I eagerly await "proof"...but we do not have any.

Originally posted by Plotus
I also take exception to your arrogant demeanor, as though you speak out of authority much as a Psychologist of sociologist might. Do you have any training in behavioral circles? Once you disassoiate yourself from those of whom you speak and take a stance of superiority, at that point you alienate.......

To be fair . I think you have made a mistake regarding the demeanor of the OP , especially as out of 13 pages of replies , you are the only one who took his post to be arrogant .
I hope your attack goes no thurther .

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

By all means, regale your story, but don't expect everyone to accept it as truth without any kind of proof. I find myself extra skeptical of extraordinary claims, especially multiple claims from the same person.

If someone were to say that they'd seen a car accident, then I'd be inclined to believe them without any proof required. However, if they said that they saw a UFO crash, I'd require some kind of proof in order to believe them. It's an extraordinary claim that requires some sort of authentication before I jump on their side.

Expect to be picked apart without proof.

Originally posted by tpg65

Originally posted by Plotus
I also take exception to your arrogant demeanor, as though you speak out of authority much as a Psychologist of sociologist might. Do you have any training in behavioral circles? Once you disassoiate yourself from those of whom you speak and take a stance of superiority, at that point you alienate.......

To be fair . I think you have made a mistake regarding the demeanor of the OP , especially as out of 13 pages of replies , you are the only one who took his post to be arrogant .
I hope your attack goes no thurther .

I'd simply site the title....... there was no attack, I said "I take exception"

The ULTIMATE expression of ignorance -- "Pics or it didn't happen", page 1

Sticking with UFOs as an example, we've had at least 65 years of reported sightings in the "modern era" of the phenomenon. An anonymous, uncorroborated and vague report (which is what these usually are) usually provides no useful information unless you are interested in the psychology of the phenomenon. As has been pointed out, even posted photos are only as reliable as those who took them and they usually remain anonymous, too. You need to have multiple witnesses corroborated by reliable investigation.

The problem with believers that Im not part of, is that from too much believing and wanting to happen they stop thinking clearly and start making their own stories. While their videos in most cases show explainable objects and they are not guilty if something was nothing strange, when it comes to stories about seeinng a Reptilian, Grey, abductions, anyone can think of some story and make it true - In fact I could do that too but I have honor to not do such crap to the research

The problem with skeptics which I'm not part of, is that even if you showed them a true picture, video (let's suppose it happened - would you believe me because I saw something once and even the video would not be enough). See? You will never believe anything even if someone had it, that's why I dont believe in personal stories.

The topic from Really Above Top Secret where some guy and his wife say they saw a Fishman entering the room and he violently mutliated the Fishman but not like cow mutilation, he just injured the Fishmen nearly to death

How do you expect me to believe some random story? I don't

But it shows that unless you really become part of it or this becomes War of the Worlds, you will not realize or believe it

So why is the 'one side trying to convince the other side' again?

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
BTW, for all you POIDH people -- I've witnessed over a dozen UFOs since 1999. Not a single one of those sightings were photographed. I didn't (and still don't) carry a camera and even my cell phone doesn't have a camera. Those events happened. Whether you choose to believe it or not, they happened. If you want to deny reality by denying the truth of those sightings, go ahead, but that just means you choose to persist in ignorance by denying EVERY story that deals with this subject.

And all we have is your story that you've seen a dozen "things" that you were unable to identify. Maybe you're not a very good observer. Maybe you are Mr. Upright Citizen, or maybe you are Ms. Doofus. We don't know you, and to suggest it is we who are ignorant when you haven't even given us a hint of what you saw is what is ridiculous.

At this level of explanation your stories about UFOs are FAR worse than Roxanne's--and SHE had pictures! Anyone here remember Roxanne? She posted movies of UFOs on YouTube for quite a long time. She would stand outside on her balcony every night and take pictures, "OOOOing" and "Awing" about how awesome they were. You could see the moving lights in her movies.

When someone got a shot in daylight what appeared? A hill opposite her apartment with a road going to the top. All she was seeing were cars driving up and down the hill with their headlights on. But just try to convince Roxanne she was seeing automobiles. Not in your life. Indeed, she said something like this:

"Those events happened. Whether you choose to believe it or not, they happened. If you want to deny reality by denying the truth of those sightings, go ahead, but that just means you choose to persist in ignorance by denying EVERY story that deals with this subject"

Then Roxanne removed all her videos and went off in a huff never to be seen again. Now it was kind of obvious that Roxanne wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer, and she wasn't very happy when people pointed out her mistakes. But at least she had pics, and you don;t even have that. You saw a dozen UFOs? What does that statement even mean?

Taking your post at face value here (knowing you may have excplained your sightings in complete depth elsewhere) your story about seeing a dozen UFOs is completely useless. It lacks detail. There is no supporting information. So just where are we supposed to go with a story like this? It adds absolutely nothing to the genre. Nothing. And you DARE to be "angry" because someone asks for pics?

Here's what "Pics or it didn't happen" means. It's shorthand for:

Your story as presented is useless. Please do a better job of explaining what you saw. Please show us that you have the presence of mind to at least investigate your own sighting. Please provide as much context as you can. Please explain why your sighting should even be discussed, or why it is so compelling that you deem it necessary to tell us what you saw. How do you think your sighting fits into the overall pattern of UFOs as reported elsewhere? Have you thought about and dismissed such alternative explanations as airplanes, birds, lanterns, lampposts and the like? How does your sighting contribute to the "UFO community?" If there is anything about your personal background that might be relevant, please share that.

And please, please understand that if you report that you saw some lights in the sky, you are unlikely to be greeted as the Savior with the answer to UFOs, life, the universe, and everything. We will not treat you as a hero nor bow down to your feet. That you saw a light in the sky does not mean aliens are visiting earth from another planet or another dimension. That you saw a light in the sky does not raise your intelligence or mean that you have superior powers of observation. It does not make you a special person. And if that's all you've got, please consider not posting, otherwise people will say,

pics, or it didn't happen.

Most the time, even when we show up a Picture, it get denied anyway. People nowdays have their heads in the sand. Even if we had a video, people say its CG. They use all sort of debunk bull#s, to ridicule, deny, mock or whatever the source of the event. Like for myself and 4 of my friends we have seen a huge Triangle UFO this summer, we saw it, all 5 of us, we saw it 5 seconds at most. We have no video or picture to proove ourself. But we know it happened and nobody can deny what I saw. That to me is enough. I had 2 extraordinary event in my life and twice I wasnt alone, so i have someone to testify what I saw. So even if they say, pic or it didnt happen, I dont care, I and my friends saw what we saw and the interweb can keep their head in the sand, in a field with millions of people like em, with the head in the sand. Hope they die, suffocated in the sand trap.

I believe that most, if not all - "Pictures or it didn't happen" people [ on the subject of EBE's and their other- worldly craft's,] are couch potatoes; sitting in front of their laptop's and TV's waiting to be served evidence of ET life on a silver plate. Other's just want to be hoaxbuster's, which is well and good; provided you can disprove a mistaken idenity, or a determined fake photograph.

But people have to be patient, because it is very hard to take a photograph of an other-worldly craft going at top speed thru Earth's atmosphere. The slow cruising alien starships are a different story, but the majority of Earthlings don't ever expect to see one with the camera ready.

Since the U.S. Fed's refuse to release full UFO disclosure, the U.S. citizen's will have to prove the existence of ET visitation here on Earth buy themselves; without the help of the Federal government.

This proves the existence of a major UFO cover-up, [ because of previous factual evidence of ET visitations here on Earth,] performed by the U.S. Federal government; which could possibly could come too bite them on there rear ends at a later date.



Foofighter's

Erno86

I have never used the pics or did not happen, however I have asked for pics on a few occasions such as yesterday. Failure to provide some does not mean I believe they are lying however it means your belief comes down to how well you know that person. It is not a sensible idea to believe anyone on the internet so for some asking for photos is a way of finding the truth with as much evidence as possible, some say pics or it did not happen as they follow the fad just like people who say "Oh don’t worry it is just swamp gas/Chinese lanterns ".

Three types of people on ATS:

Believer: The op is telling the truth, they have a ton of posts and why would they even lie? They might not have pics though they are easily faked so I will just accept what they say as truth until the time it gets debunked or forgotten about.

Sceptic: That is a cool story but you have nothing else for me to go on, why should I trust you. Until I can get more info on such a claim I will remain neutral and accept it as a possibility but not blindly believe without at least an element of trust in the person’s character.

Troll: Pics or it didn’t happen. It’s just swamp gas. You must work for CIA. You are one of those...

It is nice to believe in strangers but when you sit on a bus and a guy walks up to you and says he just saw something strange you do not just believe him at face value, at least I wouldn’t.

Originally posted by grahag
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

Well said sir.
Rational people: 1
Over-sensitive Cry-babies who believe whatever people TELL them: 0
/thread.

PICS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. DEAL W/IT

Expecting people to believe the testimony of a single stranger WITHOUT ANY PROOF is beyond delusional. Anyone who criticizes someone for wanting evidence is a gullible fool.

Remember atoms-atoms, "DENY IGNORANCE" does NOT equal "BELIEVE WHAT EVERYONE SAYS WITHOUT ASKING FOR PROOF".

I'm at the point where I think just a post with that stupid expression in it and nothing else needs to be removed by the mods as off-topic.
It is being used to try to get a laugh or to get stars.
There is no excuse for such blatant ignorance in my opinion.

Sometimes it's nice to have the pics. But using this expression as a reply should be against the T&C.